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The Convert

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Nothing says I Hate My Audience like telling them about the great guitar you didn't bring! I've been bringing expensive #1s to gigs in some pretty sketchy places my whole life. I'm sorry yer buddy got whacked, that's a grand total of 1 actual occurrence of gig theft I've heard of in my whole life. Theft from the gig is about the least of the average guys worries.

 

rct

 

I agree. I took my one and only Gibson with me everywhere back in the 80's and 90's. It's been from one side of the country to the other, played hundreds of gigs, even more practices in various locations, left in the hotel, in the car, in the hotel, etc. In fact, the worst problem I had taking mine everywhere was drunk guys who "used to play guitar" or guitarists who thought they could play but couldn't and wanted to touch my guitar. And, some of them tried to sit down with a Flying V and have it sit on their leg in the usual manner, the guitar slipping from their leg. I'd play my Les Paul Standard, 81 V, 2007 V, and Les Paul Tribute as often as possible at any show. The Standard and 81 V as primaries, the 2007 V as backup, and the Tribute for when I wanted that P90 sound. I'd be heartbroken if my 81 V was ever stolen or broken after having it for 33 years but I'll continue playing it as often as possible. That's what they're for. Why have a really expensive, beautiful and fantastic sounding guitar and never play it, particularly on stage? It kind of defeats the purpose. Now, if it were a 1958 Les Paul that cost me $200,000.00, I'd probably be VERY selective about where and when that guitar was played.

 

We played this bar that had a gravel parking lot and wire on the windows. I said, "If there's chicken wire in the front of the stage, we'd better learn Rawhide real quick!" It was what I'd call sketchy for sure.

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...Another thing is some Guitars are too good to show the general public or to gig with....my buddy got screwed coz he wanted to bring his #1 to a bar and gig with it, A VERY BAD MOVE !...

I don't do gigs anymore - haven't done so in aeons - but for the handful of times I have played-out since I bought my R0 - some open-mic nights and the like - it's the only guitar I've considered for the job. It's the best guitar I've ever played in 45 years of playing and I savour every chance I have to take it out. The only concession I make is to take it in an old, unbranded ratty-looking case. I do, after all, have to walk through central Croydon with the thing so there's no point in screaming GIBSON CUSTOM SHOP ! ! ! at the top of my voice......msp_scared.gif......

 

It is a shame your mate had his guitar nicked but IMO there's no point in having a great guitar yet choosing to leave it at home when the chance to take it out to do what it was made to do is on offer.

 

As far as the LP Standard is concerned; the current iteration is nothing like the Standard of days gone by and to call it 'the benchmark' is a bit of a stretch. Nowadays for anyone wanting the closest thing to an original-style ('57-'60) Standard without going down the re-issue route they'd be far nearer the mark if they bought a Traditional.

The Standard is a fine guitar but it's nature has changed in a very considerable number of ways over the last two or three decades.

 

Pip.

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Odd thing. For too many years I always thought that a Gibson ‘Standard’, meant ordinary / regular (as in bog-standard*).

It took awhile to realise it probably meant flagship (standard = flag).

 

I think Standard separated it from the Custom and Deluxe.

 

* proper Queens English there rct ;)

 

But of course. Never mind then. Carry on.

 

rct

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Nothing says I Hate My Audience like telling them about the great guitar you didn't bring! I've been bringing expensive #1s to gigs in some pretty sketchy places my whole life. I'm sorry yer buddy got whacked, that's a grand total of 1 actual occurrence of gig theft I've heard of in my whole life. Theft from the gig is about the least of the average guys worries.

 

rct

 

while i agree with the spirit of your post, my experience is a little different. i have met a few guys who have had gear stolen at gigs. in fact, a band i used to play in, the drummer and lead player used to steal other people's gear at any opportunity. it was the reason i quit. several times i returned gear they stole at gigs or battle of the bands, etc. where multiple bands played. they were great players, but as people, they were scum. they actually robbed my house right after i quit.

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...For too many years I always thought that a Gibson 'Standard' meant ordinary / regular (as in bog-standard*). It took awhile to realise it probably meant flagship (standard = flag)...
I think Standard separated it from the Custom and Deluxe...

mericful-evans is 100% correct when he said "..'Standard' meant ordinary / regular..." but not when he said "flagship..."

Before 1960 what we all now know as the Les Paul "Standard" was, officially, only ever called the "Les Paul Model".

In Parson's Street it was always referred to as the Les Paul 'regular' to differentiate it from the lower-end Junior and Special models and, post '54, the top-of-the-range Les Paul Custom. It was the 'normal' version; i.e. not 'high-end' nor 'entry-level'. Just the regular 'middling' fare (*).

 

AFAIK the first appearance of the "Les Paul Standard" title being used officially was for the 1960 catalogue.

 

Pip.

 

(*) Although why the 'Special' was so-called beats me; as is with the case of the naming of the 'De Luxe'...

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mericful-evans is 100% correct when he said "..'Standard' meant ordinary / regular..." but not when he said "flagship..."

Before 1960 what we all now know as the Les Paul "Standard" was, officially, only ever called the "Les Paul Model".

In Parson's Street it was always referred to as the Les Paul 'regular' to differentiate it from the lower-end Junior and Special models and, post '54, the top-of-the-range Les Paul Custom. It was the 'normal' version; i.e. not 'high-end' nor 'entry-level'. Just the regular 'middling' fare (*).

 

AFAIK the first appearance of the "Les Paul Standard" title being used officially was for the 1960 catalogue.

 

Pip.

 

(*) Although why the 'Special' was so-called beats me; as is with the case of the naming of the 'De Luxe'...

 

Who knows??? :mellow: :rolleyes: Gibson called their (non-Custom Shop) Double Cut special, in early 2000's a "Junior Lite!" WTH???

 

Maybe they used Special because it was easier than saying a "two pickup Junior" or a Deluxe, because it was easier than

"Mini-Humbucker" Les Paul Standard? And, why did the Les Paul "Standard," when reintroduced in '68

only come equipped with P-90's, and not Humbuckers as the last "Standard" would have been, prior to

the 1961 introduction of the SG?

 

Maybe Gibson's disclaimer should read: "Gibson reserves the right to 'make up' any spec's and

names it pleases, regardless of logic?" [flapper][biggrin]

 

CB

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...Maybe they used...Deluxe, because it was easier than "Mini-Humbucker" Les Paul Standard?...

...And, why did the Les Paul "Standard," when reintroduced in '68 only come equipped with P-90's, and not Humbuckers...?

 

Maybe Gibson's disclaimer should read: "Gibson reserves the right to 'make up' any spec's and names it pleases, regardless of logic?"...

Thinking about the 'DeLuxe' name...

As you say; when the 'Standard' was reintroduced it had a pair of P-90s. Players were telling dealers - who in turn were telling Gibson - that what they wanted was a Les Paul Gold-Top but with humbuckers instead of the P-90s. Perhaps, under the circumstances, the mini-'bucker equipped LP was seen as a 'DeLuxe' version of the'68 'Standard'?

 

There's a bit of confusion (AFAIK) about the genesis of the DeLuxe. The general story is as follows;

The person who was given the task of heading-up the soon-to-be-released 'new' guitar in '69 was Jim Duerloo. He was instructed that it should feature humbuckers in place of the P-90s seen in the then-current Standard but he was not allowed to incur any body re-tooling costs in the process. As the routing of the bodies for the Standard's P-90s was smaller than would be necessary for full-sized 'buckers he came up with the solution of using up surplus stocks of the Epiphone mini-hums which Gibson had acquired through the purchase of the Epi company. They were dropped into a hole cut from a P-90 p'up cover and that was that! Dealers and customers were happy because they now had a 'Standard' (i.e. DeLuxe) with humbuckers - albeit the mini's.

 

What I don't understand is why they thought any money would be needed for body re-tooling in the first place. After all; since '68 the newly reintroduced LP Custom featured full-sized humbuckers so why couldn't the Standard and DeLuxe body-blanks be routed by the same tools as were used for the Custom???

 

eusa_think.gif

 

And I'm sure Gibson do have just such a disclaimer as you mention!

 

Pip.

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Guest Farnsbarns

Thinking about the 'DeLuxe' name...

As you say; when the 'Standard' was reintroduced it had a pair of P-90s. Players were telling dealers - who in turn were telling Gibson - that what they wanted was a Les Paul Gold-Top but with humbuckers instead of the P-90s. Perhaps, under the circumstances, the mini-'bucker equipped LP was seen as a 'DeLuxe' version of the'68 'Standard'?

 

There's a bit of confusion (AFAIK) about the genesis of the DeLuxe. The general story is as follows;

The person who was given the task of heading-up the soon-to-be-released 'new' guitar in '69 was Jim Duerloo. He was instructed that it should feature humbuckers in place of the P-90s seen in the then-current Standard but he was not allowed to incur any body re-tooling costs in the process. As the routing of the bodies for the Standard's P-90s was smaller than would be necessary for full-sized 'buckers he came up with the solution of using up surplus stocks of the Epiphone mini-hums which Gibson had acquired through the purchase of the Epi company. They were dropped into a hole cut from a P-90 p'up cover and that was that! Dealers and customers were happy because they now had a 'Standard' (i.e. DeLuxe) with humbuckers - albeit the mini's.

 

What I don't understand is why they thought any money would be needed for body re-tooling in the first place. After all; since '68 the newly reintroduced LP Custom featured full-sized humbuckers so why couldn't the Standard and DeLuxe body-blanks be routed by the same tools as were used for the Custom???

 

eusa_think.gif

 

And I'm sure Gibson do have just such a disclaimer as you mention!

 

Pip.

 

I'm sure that in the version of the story I was told the bodies had already been routed.

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Guest Farnsbarns

I don't do gigs anymore - haven't done so in aeons - but for the handful of times I have played-out since I bought my R0 - some open-mic nights and the like - it's the only guitar I've considered for the job. It's the best guitar I've ever played in 45 years of playing and I savour every chance I have to take it out. The only concession I make is to take it in an old, unbranded ratty-looking case. I do, after all, have to walk through central Croydon with the thing so there's no point in screaming GIBSON CUSTOM SHOP ! ! ! at the top of my voice......msp_scared.gif......

 

It is a shame your mate had his guitar nicked but IMO there's no point in having a great guitar yet choosing to leave it at home when the chance to take it out to do what it was made to do is on offer.

 

As far as the LP Standard is concerned; the current iteration is nothing like the Standard of days gone by and to call it 'the benchmark' is a bit of a stretch. Nowadays for anyone wanting the closest thing to an original-style ('57-'60) Standard without going down the re-issue route they'd be far nearer the mark if they bought a Traditional.

The Standard is a fine guitar but it's nature has changed in a very considerable number of ways over the last two or three decades.

 

Pip.

 

I just walk through central Croydon with my CS case plastered with CUSTOM SHOP decals with a "come on 'en if ya fink yer 'ard ennuff" look on my face. One day, of course, someone might fink there 'ard ennuff. I just hope.they aren't when it comes down to it. After all I have a 15 pound, swingable weight in my hand. Ha.. :D

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I'm sure that in the version of the story I was told the bodies had already been routed.

But this is where it doesn't add up.

Whilst I can believe there would be a stock of pre-routed body blanks when the DeLuxe was put into production I doubt it would be anything like the 30,000+ which were made prior to the reintroduction of the Standard with full-sized 'buckers in '76. Furthermore in the same '68-'75 period there were 34,844 Customs made so someone in Parson's Street knew how to make bodies with larger cavities...

 

I just walk through central Croydon with my CS case plastered with CUSTOM SHOP decals with a "come on 'en if ya fink yer 'ard ennuff" look on my face...

How can I put this to you tactfully, Farns?....

You have the advantage of having more, erm, mass available to you than I have.

 

eusa_angel.gif

 

Pip.

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while i agree with the spirit of your post, my experience is a little different. i have met a few guys who have had gear stolen at gigs. in fact, a band i used to play in, the drummer and lead player used to steal other people's gear at any opportunity. it was the reason i quit. several times i returned gear they stole at gigs or battle of the bands, etc. where multiple bands played. they were great players, but as people, they were scum. they actually robbed my house right after i quit.

 

 

NICE!!!

 

I worked in a band once with a guy who I found out was stealing gear/guitars from other local players. I quit on the spot.

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NICE!!!

 

I worked in a band once with a guy who I found out was stealing gear/guitars from other local players. I quit on the spot.

 

That's a new kind of low when a "musician" steals stuff from a "fellow musician." There's a special place in hell for those kind of people and I'm pretty sure there's Muzak streaming into that area and it's all done on kazoo.

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I just walk through central Croydon with my CS case plastered with CUSTOM SHOP decals with a "come on 'en if ya fink yer 'ard ennuff" look on my face. One day, of course, someone might fink there 'ard ennuff. I just hope.they aren't when it comes down to it. After all I have a 15 pound, swingable weight in my hand. Ha.. :D

 

Carry the Custom Shop case with a Chibson in it. Wait! no... thats not right is it? :unsure:

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That's a new kind of low when a "musician" steals stuff from a "fellow musician." There's a special place in hell for those kind of people and I'm pretty sure there's Muzak streaming into that area and it's all done on kazoo.

 

it kind of sets up the double scum bag situation...

 

bad enough, the thief alone, but to steal from another musician, when they know dam well how hard it is to save the money and buy decent gear...

yea,, people we need not deal kindly with...

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Well we sort of high jacked the original thread, but we gave plenty of opinions on that so I guess we are free to carry on with the new subject of whether or not to take your best axe to the gig. I always took my number 1 to gigs, because there was a time when I only had one. But I agree, there is no point in having a great guitar if you aren't going to use it to perform.

 

I played a lot of rough neighborhoods in Chicago and it seemed that the gangs and crooks didn't bother someone carrying a guitar case very often. I don't know if it was that they had an affinity for musicians, or if they were scared you might have a sub-machine gun in that case? The problem was finding a place to park your car. You would double park in the street and unload there at the front door, but then you had to drive around quite awhile to find a parking place. Since it might be 20 minutes or more before I got back I didn't want to leave my guitar sitting unattended on the stage, so would always carry it with me from wherever I parked.

 

I was confronted only once in about 30 years by a fellow who pointed his coat pocket at me (I don't know if was really a gun or just his finger) and said "give me your wallet". I asked him if he knew what time it was and he said "yeah, about 8:00 PM". I told him he didn't want to rob me on the way into the gig. If he was going to rob me he needed to wait until about 2:30 AM when I was on my way out and had gotten paid. He said "good point" and let me pass. Fortunate for me he must have gotten drunk or robbed someone else as he was no where to be found when we packed up and left.

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Well we sort of high jacked the original thread, but we gave plenty of opinions on that so I guess we are free to carry on with the new subject of whether or not to take your best axe to the gig...

As the OP hasn't even visited the forum since the thread was started almost a week ago I think we can all safely assume the 'question' as initiated was a complete waste of everyone's time. It did, however, meander off into an interesting little backwater so all-in-all it might be considered to have been not a total write-off.

 

Good point about the timing of a hold-up, though! Quick thinking on your part, too!

 

msp_thumbup.gif

 

Pip.

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