Pesh Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Hi all; Bit of advice and guidance needed, or comments from the crowd where you've got experience or positive affirmations on what I'm trying to convey. Anyway...to business. The problem: I have a 2013 Les Paul Traditional Pro II. This model, as some of you are aware from experiences or seeing the Traditional Pro IV model in the years since, know that this usually comes with Grover Locking Rotomatics; the same style you see adorning the headstock of current Les Paul Standards in the 'T' line. This is the piece in question: https://www.grotro.com/Grover/2154a941-6e5d-484f-a28c-2640779e7038/LOCKING-ROTOMATICS/Roto-Grip-Locking-Rotomatics-502-Series One of these tuning machines on my wonderful guitar has been giving me some grief for a little while now, which was manageable with a bot of elbow-grease, and some over-tightening of the locking component. I've applied some fluids to it and dismantled the housing before to see if I could rectify the issue, to no success. Unfortunately in recent weeks another one of the machine heads has started to show similar issues, where it does not hold the lock and may slip, and the peg itself seems a little looser than it should be. I've thought that maybe a replacement of the components might be in order. Given I need to keep the style and screw orientation; I was looking at the Schaller alternative - the Schaller M6 90 locking tuners, as exemplified here: https://shop.rall-online.net/epages/61511639.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61511639/Products/12020378 These have the same position for the screw (90 degrees) and apparently the same maximum post diameter fitting the 10mm holes. They're also available in Nickel, unlike the Grovers, which suits me well as I've changed the previous Gibson bridge hardware to Nickel stuff from Faber, so the metal finishing would match. I sheerly wanted anyone that has thoughts on, or has done a change of this nature, to share their experiences, comments, thoughts, or concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Hey man... Hows things going? :) While I have never changed a Gibson so cant say much about the spec and how they may fit.. I have used Schaller on many of my own builds and the quality is very good.. So no worries on that front.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Put regular old Grovers on there. Nobody is going to steal them, they don't need to lock. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Put regular old Grovers on there. Nobody is going to steal them, they don't need to lock. rct That did make me chuckle, rct! Regular Grovers are in the consideration pile, although I quite like the usefulness of the locking ones I've been using. And there's barely any price difference between the two. Shall see how it goes over the next few days and I'll make a snap decision. If it doesn't work out I could always do a quick eBay sale of whatever I don't keep, or use them on another project / build down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pesh Posted July 24, 2017 Author Share Posted July 24, 2017 Hey man... Hows things going? :) While I have never changed a Gibson so cant say much about the spec and how they may fit.. I have used Schaller on many of my own builds and the quality is very good.. So no worries on that front.. Hey matey! I'm good how's things? I've had a look since and based on the manufacturers specifications; they are 99.99% identical, at least in the dimensions and measurements. So there should be no issue in a straight swap from Grover to Schaller, and certainly no issue from Grover to another Grover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american cheez Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 i've never had a problem with either brand. for reasons i cannot articulate, i like the schallers a little better. some folks will say locking tuners are unnecessary. it's true. you can get by without them just fine. however, they make string changes easier and faster by far, and increase tuning stability by requiring less winds on the peg. i have heard of grovers failing from being over-tightened, but it hasn't happen to me yet. so far i have had 1 guitar w/locking grovers, and 3 with schallers. i may have been lucky, i just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 ...some folks will say locking tuners are unnecessary. it's true. you can get by without them just fine. however, they make string changes easier and faster by far, and increase tuning stability by requiring less winds on the peg... How bout no winds? Here's a good read, I show a guy how to make any/all machines locking machines: The Knot rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I have locking tuners on my 2010 Standard.. it came with them... And I like them.. It does make a string change that much easier but that's about it... But they obviously never made that big an impact on me cos I don't want to all of a sudden change all of my guitars or anything.. Its neither here nor there really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tx-ogre Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 My Ltd 7 string Horizon has Ltd locking tuners that I really like. Definitely makes string changes faster and easier. While I have no intention of going out of my way to change out any of my other guitars with non-locking tuners, if I ever needed to change them out for whatever the reason (failing,etc.), I would most likely swap them out for locking tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 How bout no winds? Here's a good read, I show a guy how to make any/all machines locking machines: The Knot rct That's a cool method! I may give it a try but I've also never had issues with tuning stability with normal tuners. I tune with about 2 wraps per peg and am sure to stretch the fark out of my strings before I play and my tuning is good. As was said in that other thread, if I'm gigging or jamming, I will need to tune every half dozen songs or so (not that the tuning is THAT out of whack, just some fine tuning). I'd say pausing 10 seconds to tune every half hour is reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
american cheez Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 How bout no winds? Here's a good read, I show a guy how to make any/all machines locking machines: The Knot rct there's always more than one way to skin a cat, eh? cool method. i like that something someone published that long ago can still help people today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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