Songwriting

[surfpup]

There is SO MUCH out there, that I think we all subconsciously "borrow" things, all the time.

...

So, nothing is truly "original," it would seem.

 

CB

 

Ain't but 12 notes to work with. I mean one of the biggest rock songs of all time was ripped off from an unknown Spirit song. right?

[charlie brown]

Ain't but 12 notes to work with. I mean one of the biggest rock songs of all time was ripped off from an unknown Spirit song. right?

 

So, it's been said/sued!

 

CB

['Scales]

Couple of things I've noticed for 'rock' (as opposed to virtuoso prog-metal or whatever) from both writing original stuff and watching songs performed that other local bands have written, are that often the simplest songs are those the audience like the best - I've seen bands play the old 3 chord or turnaround songs and the crowd commenting "hey man, that's a great song!", ...and, that a lot of people try to put way too many lyrics into a song - I personally find its best to take a poetry approach of cut, cut, cut till you can cut back on lyrics no more - to sketch an idea, versus trying to tell your life story in intense detail regardless of the fact that it doesn't flow with the music and that virtually no-one listens to the words unless there's a catchy chorus. YMMV.

[charlie brown]

That was John Lennon's "specialty," IMHO..his ability to use the least amount of lyric,

and still tell the story, or pull at your heartstrings!

 

Dylan, could/can do that, as well. But, he often tends to be longer winded, and yet wrote/writes

great songs!

 

So...???

 

 

CB

[surfpup]

... I personally find its best to take a poetry approach of cut, cut, cut till you can cut back on lyrics no more...

 

One could make the same argument for guitar solos as well?

 

Then again, maybe not.

[brad1]

But definitely not drum solos!*

 

 

 

 

 

*In case you didn't know...I'm a drummer.

[charlie brown]

One could make the same argument for guitar solos as well?

 

Then again, maybe not.

 

Or, Sax or Trumpet solo's, especially in "Jazz!"

 

 

CB

[ocdman]

I have written and recorded 2 cds of orginal music. The melody usually comes to me easy.. Its the lyrics I have trouble with. Im currently working on a new cd but I have a little bit of writers block. Thankfully I recorded a bunch of riffs a few months ago so i have them to fall back on. I think a songwriter thread is a good idea.

[Larsongs]

So, it's been said/sued!

 

CB

 

And Spirit was inspired, arguably stole, from somebody else. Like everyone else. We're all revisioning something that came before.

 

Lars

[fretplay]

In days gone by before recording and radio there were few tunes and the only variance was in the words where a different story was told. These were simple melodies usually on three chords, we can hear their relations still today in folk music.

 

After recording became available the songs expanded their complexity as we can hear in the standards of the 30s and 40s. Some of those songs are really stuffed with chords but in the 50s with Rock and Roll the direction went back to the simple three chord trick. I think some of the magic of Lennon and McCartney was that they took a straight forward rock song and added some jazz chords so giving a mixture of 40s and 50s music. McCartney would slip back into the old stuff on occasions as we know. This was perhaps learned from his dad who played in a band.

 

If you see a guy with a guitar singing in a subway you can bet it will be a simple song as he only has seconds to make an impression on the passers by's ear. So in writing you have to take your audience into consideration.

[Pinch]

Brad: collaborating with another person is key.

 

I hung out with my old band the other week, and we watched a tongue-in-cheek docu we made of us for a weekend. But it included performances of all our stuff. I'm ten times the guitarist now - easily.

 

Cretively, however, I am NOWHERE near. It was an case of, f...k, dude - we were THAT good?!?

 

Natch, pregnancies halted our tracks. As is often the case.

 

I'm looking, though. I miss writing with others like a mofo.

 

Whether or not it'll be the same... I mean, back in the halcyon days we shared booze, strippers and dru... food. Even me, who still lives a life of what my peers would (and do - jealous cxnts) call "utter irresponsibility", am not sure I could do that again.

 

Sure am willing to try, though. Any Swedish musicians on here?

 

I digress. Do try and get songwriting partnets, Brad.

[brad1]

In days gone by before recording and radio there were few tunes and the only variance was in the words where a different story was told. These were simple melodies usually on three chords, we can hear their relations still today in folk music.

 

After recording became available the songs expanded their complexity as we can hear in the standards of the 30s and 40s. Some of those songs are really stuffed with chords but in the 50s with Rock and Roll the direction went back to the simple three chord trick. I think some of the magic of Lennon and McCartney was that they took a straight forward rock song and added some jazz chords so giving a mixture of 40s and 50s music. McCartney would slip back into the old stuff on occasions as we know. This was perhaps learned from his dad who played in a band.

 

If you see a guy with a guitar singing in a subway you can bet it will be a simple song as he only has seconds to make an impression on the passers by's ear. So in writing you have to take your audience into consideration.

 

I really like what you wrote. It got me to think about stuff I had never thought about before.

Before they recorded music, it was much different; you're right.

 

 

 

Brad: collaborating with another person is key.

 

I hung out with my old band the other week, and we watched a tongue-in-cheek docu we made of us for a weekend. But it included performances of all our stuff. I'm ten times the guitarist now - easily.

 

Cretively, however, I am NOWHERE near. It was an case of, f...k, dude - we were THAT good?!?

 

Natch, pregnancies halted our tracks. As is often the case.

 

I'm looking, though. I miss writing with others like a mofo.

 

Whether or not it'll be the same... I mean, back in the halcyon days we shared booze, strippers and dru... food. Even me, who still lives a life of what my peers would (and do - jealous cxnts) call "utter irresponsibility", am not sure I could do that again.

 

Sure am willing to try, though. Any Swedish musicians on here?

 

I digress. Do try and get songwriting partnets, Brad.

 

I think you are correct.

Now let's just see if I can get myself to do it!:)

['Scales]

(from experience) knowing and working within your limits seems to be part of the songwriting deal, no matter how meagre your limits I reckon.

[surfpup]

Brad: collaborating with another person is key.

 

It's a lot easier with the technology we have today. While It's not as good as sitting in the same room, sending files back and forth - or sharing via the cloud - make collaboration easier. One of our members, Shred, sent me a song a couple years ago. It just needed lyrics and vocals. I did them and sent it back - easy and fun. And a lot cheaper than travel (or studio time).

[Roach]

But definitely not drum solos!*

 

 

 

 

 

*In case you didn't know...I'm a drummer.

 

Same here brad, converted to guitar, even though i started guitar at 6, drums at 10, formal lessons on both gave up guitar because 1. i didnt want to learn folk finger picking hillbilly yankee doodle shoe fly shoe when i was listening to the beatles, queen, jim croce,who all were electric pioneers of music as we know it today. and 2. i was a quick study on drums. played guitar a lil here and there over the years but no place for a drumkit has always been a problem so im back on guitar... traded my awesome cymbals and set for a les paul and a marshall...woohoo

 

The thing about writing something you do not realize was something else is yes there are only 12 notes but even less than that make sense to use in one tune, i mean maybe im wrong but a scale does not use all 12 notes right, Am Pentatonic is 5 notes yes.... i suppose you can use the notes in each of those scales too... theory im still learning, but we do not get to use 12 notes in one key right... so there is even more limitations, If you decide to play 12 bar blues in A cause the guy with the harp only has the key of A, the its A A A A D D A A E D A E How many ways to play johnny b good? But how many songs are 12 bar blues in A, iTS literally impossible not to write something that someone somewhere at sometime has already written.

 

I wrote a riff that is Am C G Em, been done billions of times but i asked some friends who play and write professionally to help me find a melody for some lyrics and both these dudes listened to it for like an hour then concluded I "CANNOT DO THAT". I asked what, they said you need to play another measure in this riff... They were absolutely lost because my riff was not 4 measures it was 3. I saw it as 12 bars total when playing it 4 times lol. They were lost and said it cannot be done so i asked if it sounded good and they agreed it did, then i said if i wrote something that sounds good and cannot be done then i must have innovated something which in my book is leaps ahead of creating something. But in truth, it was just my lack of theory and dumb luck.

[Roach]

It's a lot easier with the technology we have today. While It's not as good as sitting in the same room, sending files back and forth - or sharing via the cloud - make collaboration easier. One of our members, Shred, sent me a song a couple years ago. It just needed lyrics and vocals. I did them and sent it back - easy and fun. And a lot cheaper than travel (or studio time).

 

easier on the back too

[Pinch]

Surfpup: agreed. The ability to send recordings back and forth is awesome.

 

Brad: I never understood how someone could dislike drum solos. I'm not a drummer, but one of the cooler things with YouTube is the availability of drum cams!

[brad1]

Surfpup: agreed. The ability to send recordings back and forth is awesome.

 

Brad: I never understood how someone could dislike drum solos. I'm not a drummer, but one of the cooler things with YouTube is the availability of drum cams!

 

Yep, I knew a guy at the old Epi forum that I worked with. He lived in Rhode Island. I live in California.

I just needed some lead guitar and fills, and he did a great job.

Sounded like he was right there with me when I recorded my parts.

 

Drum solos?

I make fun of them like others. But the truth is I like them also.

And when I'm playing the drums...well I love them!