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Dead Spots


krock

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Hi all,

 

I was just wondering what you all do about any dead spots on your instruments. I noticed that on my Larrivee OM I have dead spots on all the F#'s on the 3 lowest stings. I've been told that these come and go over time as the wood ages and its to do with the wood basically absorbing the frequency of the note. I've tried tuning half and full steps down and even tuning to 435Hz but it always happens on the F#. Is this something that I should get used to happening throughout the lifetime of an acoustic or are there fixes? I've checked all of my electrics and bass' but this is the only instrument with the issue.

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Hi all,

 

I was just wondering what you all do about any dead spots on your instruments. I noticed that on my Larrivee OM I have dead spots on all the F#'s on the 3 lowest stings. I've been told that these come and go over time as the wood ages and its to do with the wood basically absorbing the frequency of the note. I've tried tuning half and full steps down and even tuning to 435Hz but it always happens on the F#. Is this something that I should get used to happening throughout the lifetime of an acoustic or are there fixes? I've checked all of my electrics and bass' but this is the only instrument with the issue.

 

A fret on a string here and there over the decades, not often at all, dozens of guitars. Yours doesn't sound like that, sounds more like a fret above F# on the fat string side is a bit high, high enough to suck them notes. Lift your strings and see if that fixes it.

 

rct

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hey Krock, never heard of the come and go thing, and I've had more guitars come thru my hands than I want to count..

 

can you define "Dead Spot" for me?

 

Fender is good at it. You'll have some note, B string at 10th fret, just doesn't ring right, it can be dull and lifeless, and it can be shrill, harsh, unpleasant. It's weird. Lift the string some, if it won't go away it is a dud fret spot right there, almost like the math that places the nut and bridge is wrong just for that string. I'm sure there is a scientificallisticallish explanation for it, but my solution has always been the same: Trade it!

 

rct

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Fender is good at it. You'll have some note, B string at 10th fret, just doesn't ring right, it can be dull and lifeless, and it can be shrill, harsh, unpleasant. It's weird. Lift the string some, if it won't go away it is a dud fret spot right there, almost like the math that places the nut and bridge is wrong just for that string. I'm sure there is a scientificallisticallish explanation for it, but my solution has always been the same: Trade it!

 

rct

 

 

I hear ya w/Fender and the ghost tones (best way I can put it) on certain notes. happens most often IME with maple finger boards too.

 

I don't think that is something that I've had happen with an acoustic?

 

it sounds like he may have a high fret, on the bass side, right before that note.. fret COULD be lifting, (glue fail from humidity issues is kind of common)

 

but it's all a swag on my end. I'd have to "hear it"... "feel it" to be 100% sure

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A fret on a string here and there over the decades, not often at all, dozens of guitars. Yours doesn't sound like that, sounds more like a fret above F# on the fat string side is a bit high, high enough to suck them notes. Lift your strings and see if that fixes it.

 

rct

 

I'll try that out. I might have to make some sort of shim unless you know a better temporary solution to check it. Someone previously mentioned that altering the mass could potentially change things like those brass clips you used to be able to attach to your headstock. I've sat the guitar on my workbench so the body is in full contact and that thud is still audible.

 

You clearly have an F# Ghost. And if you detuned by a half to a full step doesn't where F# get fretted change by one or two frets? That is nuts only on that note. If I have any issues it is usually on all the strings up to a certain fret due to humidity or it being set up to low.

 

Nuts is an excellent way of describing it. I googled it and it doesnt seem to be common that its only on the F#. You're right that I have to slide down some frets but its always that note

 

I hear ya w/Fender and the ghost tones (best way I can put it) on certain notes. happens most often IME with maple finger boards too.

 

I don't think that is something that I've had happen with an acoustic?

 

it sounds like he may have a high fret, on the bass side, right before that note.. fret COULD be lifting, (glue fail from humidity issues is kind of common)

 

but it's all a swag on my end. I'd have to "hear it"... "feel it" to be 100% sure

 

This isnt ghosting as I believe they're two different things. The frets are all fine, it was in the shop for a set up a few months back and i did some filing of the fret ends myself a few weeks back. I've got an expensive hygrometer that I've put in my case and the guitar is constantly at 45-50% relative humidity at around 21 oC. I've got silica beads that I use to regulate the moisture level. The guitars only around 3 years old so I would hope that its not to do with the glue on the bracing failing. I might check that out tomorrow. I think there are some old dentistry tools in my attic which might come in handy

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I'll try that out. I might have to make some sort of shim unless you know a better temporary solution to check it.

 

Move the string up and out of the nut slot, a bit to the side so it sits on the nut. If that makes it not happen, even if only the D string, then I'd restring it with a shim under the saddle. Or, take a really close look at the frets as the wound strings vibrate. One is high enough to interrupt them, probably the next one up from F#, possibly the next two frets are working together to wreck the wound strings.

 

Also look between the frets at the fingerboard right there, make sure it isn't unusually low.

 

rct

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Move the string up and out of the nut slot, a bit to the side so it sits on the nut. If that makes it not happen, even if only the D string, then I'd restring it with a shim under the saddle. Or, take a really close look at the frets as the wound strings vibrate. One is high enough to interrupt them, probably the next one up from F#, possibly the next two frets are working together to wreck the wound strings.

 

Also look between the frets at the fingerboard right there, make sure it isn't unusually low.

 

rct

 

Raising the string didn't seem to change anything. Even if I cant fix it myself I guess I'll always know where I am due to the F# sounding a little duller. It's not different in amplitude but its enough to be annoying to any player that knows its there

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Guest Farnsbarns

Seems to me you're saying it's every f# on all 3 of the lower strings? Also seems you're saying it moves if you tune down, following the f# to the fret above?

 

If so, it's not a high fret or a dead fret (often because it's loose over some of the width of the neck) it's got to be an issue with response to f#, the opposite of a wolf note. If that's the case a change of mass in the right spot can have an impact but I guess it'll be harder to bring a note back from a guitar body than it is to kill off a wolf note in a speaker cab which is where my experience in this lies.

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Seems to me you're saying it's every f# on all 3 of the lower strings? Also seems you're saying it moves if you tune down, following the f# to the fret above?

 

If so, it's not a high fret or a dead fret (often because it's loose over some of the width of the neck) it's got to be an issue with response to f#, the opposite of a wolf note. If that's the case a change of mass in the right spot can have an impact but I guess it'll be harder to bring a note back from a guitar body than it is to kill off a wolf note in a speaker cab which is where my experience in this lies.

 

Your understand of the issue is 100% correct. I'll have a play around with the mass and see if that helps. I called up my luthier today and he suggested that the neck and body may both be vibrating at that pitch thus cancelling out the note. He said he has previously uncoupled some taylors that use bolts by loosening the screw 1/8 of a turn and that fixed it although larrivee don't use bolt on construction for their acoustics.

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Your understand of the issue is 100% correct. I'll have a play around with the mass and see if that helps. I called up my luthier today and he suggested that the neck and body may both be vibrating at that pitch thus cancelling out the note. He said he has previously uncoupled some taylors that use bolts by loosening the screw 1/8 of a turn and that fixed it although larrivee don't use bolt on construction for their acoustics.

 

Oh, I see. I read it as the three wound strings at F#, second fret.

 

Nevermind anything I said except "Trade it".

 

rct

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Guest Farnsbarns

I never had these dead / ghost / wolf tones issues.

 

Drop the tuning half a tone & check if its still F# that is affected or the same frets?

 

He did. It's in his op. It's f# however it's tuned.

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I first searched for what frequency cancels out F# just an idea. Looking 180 degree phase reversal, just for grins.

 

This was intriguing:

 

http://www.healingfr...h-coincidences/ F# article is about the third one and music oriented.

 

Just a small study of my own the F# major is the most harmonic note in standard tuning. For one note or chord (triad) there sure seems to be an avid interest in it with the Scientific and mathmatical community. F# matches Pythogora formulas.

 

The number for the speed of light just happens to be less than 1% different from an "F#" in the A=432 concert pitch.

 

And hundreds pages and pages or more on F# across the internet.

 

My intent was to find if a certain frequency is riding along with the F# as you play. A# and C# could be overriding the F# surfing on the wave form.

 

Or another frequency produced by the guitar throwing the F# out of phase.

 

Good luck in your trouble shooting.

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Guest Farnsbarns

I first searched for what frequency cancels out F# just an idea. Looking 180 degree phase reversal, just for grins.

 

This was intriguing:

 

http://www.healingfr...h-coincidences/ F# article is about the third one and music oriented.

 

Just a small study of my own the F# major is the most harmonic note in standard tuning. For one note or chord (triad) there sure seems to be an avid interest in it with the Scientific and mathmatical community. F# matches Pythogora formulas.

 

The number for the speed of light just happens to be less than 1% different from an "F#" in the A=432 concert pitch.

 

And hundreds pages and pages or more on F# across the internet.

 

My intent was to find if a certain frequency is riding along with the F# as you play. A# and C# could be overriding the F# surfing on the wave form.

 

Or another frequency produced by the guitar throwing the F# out of phase.

 

Good luck in your trouble shooting.

 

How can f# be the most harmonic note. That there is hilarious. [lol]

 

A 180 degree phase reversal of an f# is still an f#. An f# cancels out an f#. What are you on about?

 

All that stuff about f# from the 432hz mumbo jumbo crowd is clearly bs.

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