E-minor7 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 P.S - Tpbiii has an early Bird with plast-bridge and wooden saddle - we have never heard your combination on a Hummingbird here before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Our 62 HB case had a red interior. It even stained the binding a little -- pink. I wonder if the color difference means anything. Congratulation on the guitar. Ours has the same specs -- it gives that marvelous early 60s Gibson strumming tone from our youth. If you are interested here are some recordings from our basement with the hummingbird. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I'm curious as to how the cherry dye has held up on the back and sides. How about posting another picture when you get the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 62burst: Thanks! I do really like how it has faded. Here is a larger image: Wow!!!! SirNed ... Enjoy that work of Art 🙂 Hummingbird's always remind me of the laid back country picking that the Stones did on many of their classics. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNed Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 What's the width at the nut on that? 1 11/16", 1 5/8", or 1 9/16"? Looks like 1 11/16" to my eye, but the picture is taken at a downward angle, so it's going to look wider than it might be. Yes, it measures at 11/16. Good eye! You might know I got a 1963 J-45 during Indian summer - with plast and ceramic also. Enjoyed it every single day since it came over. This controversial combo is quite different, but have qualities of its own. Do give it a long chance before goin' into any modification. I do remember that. I'm glad that you are still enjoying it. I will probably keep the saddle, I like it so far. I am thinking about swapping the plastic pins for tusq or bone. I'm curious as to how the cherry dye has held up on the back and sides. How about posting another picture when you get the chance? I will take some more pics and post them tomorrow. tpbiii: Thanks for recordings. I love that you have a whole group of vids featuring the Hummingbird (also cool that you and your wife get to make music together). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNed Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 I'm curious as to how the cherry dye has held up on the back and sides. How about posting another picture when you get the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 The back and sides look really, really good! It looks like there is slight wear on the fretboard in the first position, but not much. What's astounding is that there appears to be no pick wear on the top or the pickguard, and the pickguard still retains all the original coloring. This is probably one of the "panzer paint" pickguards that Em7 refers to, where whatever paint they used in the hummingbird and flower engraving is tough as nails. You may not hear much if any difference from switching out the plastic pins, since you have the plastic bridge. The bridges with the adjustable saddles have pretty different energy transfer characteristics compared to a conventional bridge, as well. As Em7 says, live with the plastic bridge for some time before making the call to change. These bridges can crack over time if the lags holding them on get over-tightened, or if they loosen so much that the bridge is unevenly loaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 It looks like a great guitar!! Wow. Ours is similar in most ways. Here is its picture. We decided to keep ours stock. I am not proposing that you should -- everyone's goals are different (and we are very different!). But I thought you might enjoy our reasoning. We (try) to play a number of different genres -- old time, bluegrass, folk revival, gospel, and such. Having a lot of instruments, we love to mix and match, but (1) some instruments are intrinsically better (IMHO) for some genres and (2) some instruments are historically associated with particular genres as well. Examples are the Martin D-28 and bluegrass, the 1920s Gibson L-1 and blues, etc. When an instrument was introduced as the genre was developing, there was sometimes a symbiotic relationship between the instruments and the genre -- this was certainly true with the Martin D-28 guitars, Gibson F-5 mandolins, and the Gibson flathead banjos and bluegrass. Well we feel that the Hummingbird had that same kind of role when folk revival and folk rock music exploded in the 60s. We love the (romantic) idea that we are performing period music with period instruments thus possibly achieving a period sound. I guess the other reason we leave it alone is that we find it very useful for some part of what we do. The big gripe about 60s Gibsons -- and Martins too for that matter -- is they do not have the power of the older models. More power is what you might be able to achieve by modifying the bridge/saddle but (1) not much IME and (2) you change tone too. An examination of the power of guitar models from the 1930s to the 1970s is a decease from decade to decade for all decades. So the power rankings for the big acoustic guitars is 30s, 40s, 50s, early 60s, late 60s, and 70s. I think the reason this could happened is the advent of sound reinforcement -- by the 1960s, no one ever gave performances to large audiences without sound reinforcement. In addition, the wonderful thing about the folk revival was its inclusiveness -- we know because we were there. What developed was a milder genre where the emphasis was not so much on power and "action adjustibility" was a selling point. It is my believe and experience that the early HBs like yours and ours fitted perfectly into that mix. Because they were there, they sound now "right" to my ear. Here is a 60's style rendition of a Kingston Trio piece on our Hummingbird. In any case congratulations on your iconic old bird -- may you enjoy it in many ways. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalex Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Mine looks a bit more beaten up than you guys Birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jalex Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 here's my 63 Bird with a rosewood bridge and bone saddle. That's the way I bought so I'll never know what it sounded like with the original plastic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 This is probably one of the "panzer paint" pickguards that Em7 refers to, where whatever paint they used in the hummingbird and flower engraving is tough as nails. Yes - during the fierce fighting of The battle of the Ardennes in the winter of 1944-45, US-forces took over a depot with German supplies and spare-parts hidden deep in the cold Belgian pine woods. The paint used for the Wehrmacht Tiger-tanks (and other vehicles) was among the material there and 5.000 buckets were conquered. Most of them made it all the way to Berlin from where reportedly 700 were shipped back to the States and eventually bought by Kalamazoo in 1957. From this purchase sprung the idea of nothing less than the Hummingbird and its pick-guard, which saw light of day in 1960.* You may not hear much if any difference from switching out the plastic pins, since you have the plastic bridge. The bridges with the adjustable saddles have pretty different energy transfer characteristics compared to a conventional bridge, as well. As Em7 says, live with the plastic bridge for some time before making the call to change. These bridges can crack over time if the lags holding them on get over-tightened, or if they loosen so much that the bridge is unevenly loaded. Inspired by the new Bird-owner's idea of replacing the pins, I actually changed the 2 original black plast-bass-pins on my 1963 ceramic saddled plast-bridged cherry J-45 to bone yesterday. The difference was clearer than expected. Look forward to hear if SirNed is able confirm. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . *Must admit this tale is pure fantasy. But every second year I 'paint' it up again because I - bein' psycho-infantile - really like to tell it. (J45nick knows all this). That's sometimes how myths are created. Have patience with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNed Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 j45nick: There is surprisingly little wear overall. It does have a significant amount of crazing, which didn't really show up in the pics. I did wonder if the pins would affect the tone as much with a plastic bridge. I will give them a try as the plastic ones are a bit chewed up (probably by pliers). tpbiii: Your 'bird is in really nice shape! Are you the original owner? Your analysis of acoustic guitars through the decades makes sense. I never really thought about how amplification could shift design priority away from projection. Jalex: That's still a great looking guitar. That pg looks like it's holding up really well. They must be right about the Panzer paint... Em7: The details of the story are too good to be made up . I think I could find some uses for Panzer paint around my house. I will let you know if I notice any difference in tone when I swap out the pins. Although, my ear is not as well-trained as many of you guys here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 tpbiii: Your 'bird is in really nice shape! Are you the original owner? Your analysis of acoustic guitars through the decades makes sense. I never really thought about how amplification could shift design priority away from projection. No, we are the second owner. We have had it a bit more than 25 years. In the 60s, I could not have afforded it -- I had a 1960 LG-1 in the 1960s. The history of the pick guards is pretty interesting. The earliest ones were totally hand engraved and painted. They were done free hand and many were signed -- initials but at different places. Then there was a period where they were partially pressed and partially engraved -- still a lot of hand work. Finally they were just pressed out and painted. As much as I love this stuff, I really don't know when exactly this was done. Ours clearly has a lot of hand engraving but I think maybe not all. It is like a treasure hunt, although 64 may be a bit late -- I don't know. Most people think the late 60s declined started in mid 65 when they got the neck carving machine. Yours should be safely on the good side of that. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Now THAT is a cool guitar! You're gonna have some fun with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNed Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 The history of the pick guards is pretty interesting. The earliest ones were totally hand engraved and painted. They were done free hand and many were signed -- initials but at different places. Then there was a period where they were partially pressed and partially engraved -- still a lot of hand work. Finally they were just pressed out and painted. As much as I love this stuff, I really don't know when exactly this was done. Ours clearly has a lot of hand engraving but I think maybe not all. It is like a treasure hunt, although 64 may be a bit late -- I don't know. Most people think the late 60s declined started in mid 65 when they got the neck carving machine. Yours should be safely on the good side of that. Best, -Tom Besides being beautiful, wonderful-sounding guitars, vintage Hummingbirds have a lot of sentimental value to me. The biggest reason is because my grandpa designed the pg art. He did some custom work during his time at Gibson, and hand-engraved many pgs in the early 60s. He also created the pg art for the Dove and the Epiphone Excellente (eagle version).Those two are still on my list. I posted about it a while back, if you want to check it out: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/138933-hummingbird-pickguard-art I have been searching for a Hummingbird with a hand-engraved pg, but I have not had any luck yet. I have found his hand-engraved pgs on the Dove and Excellente. If your Dove is from the early 60s, it's likely that he made the guard. The Excellente is really rare, and the large pgs are known to deteriorate. If you see one with the original guard, they do have his initials at the base of the tree branch. Those models were used by Ernest Tubb and Loretta Lynn. Now THAT is a cool guitar! You're gonna have some fun with that! Loving it and having fun already! Thanks, Bozz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassetman Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 62burst: Thanks! I do really like how it has faded. Here is a larger image: I really like that. Lucky You. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWG4927 Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Besides being beautiful, wonderful-sounding guitars, vintage Hummingbirds have a lot of sentimental value to me. The biggest reason is because my grandpa designed the pg art. He did some custom work during his time at Gibson, and hand-engraved many pgs in the early 60s. He also created the pg art for the Dove and the Epiphone Excellente (eagle version).Those two are still on my list. I posted about it a while back, if you want to check it out: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/138933-hummingbird-pickguard-art I have been searching for a Hummingbird with a hand-engraved pg, but I have not had any luck yet. I have found his hand-engraved pgs on the Dove and Excellente. If your Dove is from the early 60s, it's likely that he made the guard. The Excellente is really rare, and the large pgs are known to deteriorate. If you see one with the original guard, they do have his initials at the base of the tree branch. Those models were used by Ernest Tubb and Loretta Lynn. Loving it and having fun already! Thanks, Bozz! I see in the gibson newsletter in the link your grandfather started at gibson 1943 men worked there also? all worked there then were not GALS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 Besides being beautiful, wonderful-sounding guitars, vintage Hummingbirds have a lot of sentimental value to me. The biggest reason is because my grandpa designed the pg art. He did some custom work during his time at Gibson, and hand-engraved many pgs in the early 60s. He also created the pg art for the Dove and the Epiphone Excellente (eagle version).Those two are still on my list. I posted about it a while back, if you want to check it out: http://forum.gibson....d-pickguard-art I have been searching for a Hummingbird with a hand-engraved pg, but I have not had any luck yet. I have found his hand-engraved pgs on the Dove and Excellente. If your Dove is from the early 60s, it's likely that he made the guard. The Excellente is really rare, and the large pgs are known to deteriorate. If you see one with the original guard, they do have his initials at the base of the tree branch. Those models were used by Ernest Tubb and Loretta Lynn. Loving it and having fun already! Thanks, Bozz! Well that is totally cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNed Posted November 18, 2017 Author Share Posted November 18, 2017 I see in the gibson newsletter in the link your grandfather started at gibson 1943 men worked there also? all worked there then were not GALS? A good part of the workforce were women, but not all. I've talked to some who used to work there. Gibson continued to make guitars, but they mostly did war contract production. Here is a photo which includes the men: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted November 18, 2017 Share Posted November 18, 2017 As Em7 says, live with the plastic bridge for some time before making the call to change. These bridges can crack over time if the lags holding them on get over-tightened, or if they loosen so much that the bridge is unevenly loaded. Leave the bridge on there !!! If you truly like the slightly metallic overtones & switch it out, you'll lose them. I've done this in the past & regretted it. My current '66 Epi Cortez (B-25 clone) has it's original plastic bridge, and it is structurally in perfect condition. If it's lasted this long, no reason to worry about it. But - if you have any structural damage, then you've got a decision to make. A top gap in the southward-center of the bridge between the 3rd & 4th strings is normal, due to the position of the four small hold-down screws (with hex-heads). As mentioned, do not over-tighten those screws, or you'll risk stripping out or cracking the plastic. They just need to be snug. Also, be sure the ball ends of the strings are properly seated on the bridge plate. Congrats & enjoy your Grandpa-inspired guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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