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Murph

Let's Talk Bose / JBL Line Array....

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Played in a bar Wednesday night.

 

First time back in a bar in nearly 8 years.

 

They haven't changed....

 

No I didn't drink any alcohol.

 

Anyhow, me and another acoustic guitar, two vocals, we'd switch the mic'ed (3 mics) mandolin from time to time, and a bass player with his own bass rig.

 

6 channel p.a. with 2 freakin monitors, two mains, and the sound sucked. We've done some coffee house's with this same rig that was fine, and I blame it on him (the p.a. owner and sound man and my acoustic partner) because we were in a hurry and it was too loud, but the bar was a BAR and it got loud as well. I still couldn't hear stuff well. The crowd was happy. I was not.

 

I see some threads over "there" and was just wondering what you guys think of the line array systems. From some research I think I might like one, if nothing else just for myself. Sal, please elaborate on your system if you would, I know you have mucho experience with both, and curious how many seat your clubs are, and how "attentive".

 

Carry on.

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I’ve a fishman soloamp and it’s great

Play in a smallish bar but the things only at a quarter volume

 

Sals the man to listen to.

 

My friend bought LD systems 800 watt system two speakers and a bass bin , says it’s awesome but it’s aleesdy back to the factoryffor a repair after two months of light gigging

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Ive a fishman soloamp and its great

Play in a smallish bar but the things only at a quarter volume

 

 

See, my Carvin AG100D is good for some things, but with him bringing a full p.a., I worry about it's "spread".

 

And I still need a monitor.

 

And it's MORE STUFF.....

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Hey Murph,

 

I play twice a month in Brooklyn bars with my buddy Mike. We have two mics set up, and our two guitars. Typically we go through his Bose L1 with Bass Module and Tone Match mixer. It sounds great - but his rig is pricey (well over $2,000). 80% of the time Bobby joins us with a cajon and his bag of percussion (he is awesome - sometimes shakers, sometimes tambourine, sometimes bamboo sticks), and he is awesome with nuance. The bars are usually small, with about 50-60 people. Some are there at tables eating grub, but most are gathering around and singing along.

 

Occasionally we play larger restaurants/bars/parties where we need more sound- 150-200 people - and I bring my Fishman SA330x with integrated add on mixer. The mixer is inexpensive but good - $150. I bet you can buy the SA330x with the mixer now, with coupons, for about $1,000 - so its half the price of the Bose. You could add a bass module too if you want. Maybe the whole thing costs $1400. You can see it in the picture here, although I dont have the bass module. I dont think I need it:

 

Tb2NRE0l.jpg

 

 

 

I like the sound of my Fishman just fine. I think you could go that route with no issues. A bass player will bring a small bass amp anyways. The guitars and vocals sound just great. The best part of my rig is that setup is five minutes, and that it is easy to haul in and out. Breakdown is a snap, and makes the worst part of the night quicker and easier.

 

While I would give the edge in sound to my buddy's Bose, it is but a slight edge. My Fishman with the bass and mixer is still about $800 less than Mike's Bose system.

 

In terms of attentive audiences, we have a nice following that seems to come out rain or shine. In the beginning we did have a few nights playing for twenty people, but frankly our song lists are better now, and our following is too. In the beginning we inserted many songs that WE loved to play, and that half the audience appreciated, but the other half didnt know. We are now pretty good at mixing up cool sets. Mostly folks want to hear and sing along to songs of their heroes growing up, and wash away crappy weeks, and you will be remiss if you dont deliver. You can sprinkle in originals, or that weird B-side Neil, but if you want a following at our age - as middle aged guys who love to play out, and not young up-and-comers trying to "make it", play your Petty, Credence, Neil, Van Morrison, Beatles, Stones, etc.

 

PS - Most of the time my rig sits at home, and its an expensive big thing to sit in my home office/guitar room. I wouldnt list it for sale and ship it because its a hassle, but if you happen to be driving in NJ, I'll sell it to you right. Its near new.

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We have a Boze L1 model 2. Is that what you are talking about?

 

Although the situation you describe is one in which we play a few times a year, it is not what we prefer. We (wife and I) prefer to play in acoustic (nothing plugged in -- mics only for sound reinforcement) string bands (mostly bluegrass or partial bluegrass if we don't have enough players) of 3-6 players. If the venue will allow it, we will stick an SM57 under the bass tailpiece and use one or a few large diaphragm condenser mics and no monitors. This also requires an attentive quite audience. This I assume is how gigs have always been performed in heaven.

 

Here on earth however that situation often does not exist. A standard close action mic/monitors setup can usually provide a usable stage (which may be too kind a description), but when the audience is loud and pretty much on stage, I have never found a way to be happy -- even plugged in.

 

However when we play as a duo or a trio, we have found the Boze can make it work really well. It is relatively small, so it can work in a crowded area. It's setting are preprogrammed, so setup is fixed and easy. You certainly hear the actual music because the array is behind you. It can work for audiences of up to maybe 150 in a loud place.

 

If we always played bars and small restaurants, it would be all we use. Since we only do that only about 10% of the time, we only use it 10% of the time.

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

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How the hell did you fit all that gear in a bar .... must have been decent size ?

 

Honestly, if i was in that situation i would just use a small mixer that can take all the inputs / players and run it through my AER compact 60. Ive already done it a coule times, having multiple instrumentalists, can handle easily a venue with 100+ punters and projects far ... not to mention the best acoustic tone Ive ever heard come out of an amp.

 

Ill be having a jamm session / open mike at my place in a couple weeks, and ill be using this set up.

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..................... This I assume is how gigs have always been performed in heaven.

 

Here on earth however that situation often does not exist. A standard close action mic/monitors setup can usually provide a usable stage (which may be too kind a description), but when the audience is loud and pretty much on stage, I have never found a way to be happy -- even plugged in.

 

Love it, Tom....

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How the hell did you fit all that gear in a bar .... must have been decent size ?

 

Well, it was far smaller than the venues we used to play with a full band w/drums and light show, but I'm guessing it was around 100 patrons.

 

My actual thoughts are the L1 Compact, I'm reading it will handle 100, and sits behind you with zero feedback. With a mixer it would handle 4/5 inputs and eliminate about 300 pounds (mains/monitors) and many square feet.

 

One problem was time, we were rushed to set up because of another event running long, and simply not used to such a loud rowdy bunch with this acoustic project. In a perfect World the small p.a. is fine with monitors and such, I've just been intrigued with the Bose system since reading about it, and have some Bose computer speakers that are simply amazing for their size.

 

I'll look at the AER rig as well.

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I'll look at the AER rig as well.

 

Theres not much of a'rig' to the AER, its actually a small 60 watt amp, but delivers more power than my 300w Yamaha PA.

 

Check out this vid of a mate of mine cutting it up post gig at a venue where played during the summer, just with the AER to his right.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1haEmhzyyXE

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The Bose L1 Model II with B2 bass is, quite simply, the best live audio PA system I've ever heard BAR none (pardon the pun). I sold a ton of these puppies. I don't know exactly what Bose does with its technology, but it is incredibly clear. I've stacked it up against a lot of competitors and there is no comparison. For a small, solo gig, the Bose L1 Compact is light and clear and beautiful. For larger venues a Bose L1 Model II with a B1 bass is fine. For a large venue with a full band, two Bose L1 Model II with two B2 bass units just kills it. Clear, full coverage, articulate, powerful, light and easy to carry.

 

No, I don't work for Bose and I'm retired from selling. ;)

 

Bose L1 II B2

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Hey Murph,............................................... if you happen to be driving in NJ, I'll sell it to you right.

 

I'll keep that in mind, old buddy.

 

I forgot yours was a Fishman, and will research it as well.

 

As for the part about doing songs people know, myself and Owen write a lot. We played 2 and 1/2 hours Wednesday night without a break, which is nearly as long as we would play doing a 4 hour gig in the old days (with breaks) and we played all original songs except 2. They loved it.

 

There was a little banter, but we pretty much just kept it going so fast they weren't sure what to expect next. I brought my ipad, but never got any video because it simply happened too fast and there wasn't a safe place to set it up.

 

I'm going to do more research for sure, because such a simple setup should be far more simple than it is at this point.

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I have a Bose L1 system and it's awesome. The bass module is really heavy but the newer ones are not as heavy. I also have a Fishman soloamp and it's awesome and it's lighter and super easy to set up and carry. I doubt most of the audience would ever hear and realize a difference between the Bose and the Fishman.

 

I think the Bose Compact will work fine for smaller, more intimate gigs.

 

I do love hearing what the audience hears, not needing monitors.

 

There is another competitor with line array, I don't recall the name. I think you would be happy with any modern line array system and not needing monitors. For acoustic acts, they shine.

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I've had a Fishstick and I have the Bose now with the tone match b2 module.the fishman was adequate for a solo and occasional duo but when it went to 3 and 4 the Bose was the ticket.

Quality, sound, ease of setup and it gets it done. The only con is its expensive but ya get what ya pay for.........if your lucky. No regrets here. If you got the dough get the Bose it won't disappoint. Jmhofwiw

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I killed two Fishman Loudbox Performer amps in nine months, I took great care of them but they couldn’t handle the rigours of 3-5 gigs a week and the drivers blew in both.

 

I exchanged my last one for a Mark Acoustic AC101H, a two channel combo made by DV Mark who, of course, are normally known for their bass amps. Unsurprisingly it has amazing bass response and sounds really full and lush for guitar and vocals. It’s compact and weighs VERY little, but has great projection and is much less directional than the Fishman. It has a global anti-feedback Q which really helps nip any troublesome frequencies in the bud, too, and has 200w of grunt, so more than capable of handling a decent sized bar gig.

 

It also doesn’t have the clumsy hard-knee compression that the Fishman has when turned up (clearly intended to prevent damage to the drivers but doesn’t, and just sounds irritating), substituting that for the option of fitting a decent, larger driver instead.

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I think I saw that zzounds has Bose 15% off today. Also worth mentioning is that Bose used to have a trial period, not sure if they still do.

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We have a Boze L1 model 2. Is that what you are talking about?

 

Although the situation you describe is one in which we play a few times a year, it is not what we prefer. We (wife and I) prefer to play in acoustic (nothing plugged in -- mics only for sound reinforcement) string bands (mostly bluegrass or partial bluegrass if we don't have enough players) of 3-6 players. If the venue will allow it, we will stick an SM57 under the bass tailpiece and use one or a few large diaphragm condenser mics and no monitors. This also requires an attentive quite audience. This I assume is how gigs have always been performed in heaven.

 

Here on earth however that situation often does not exist. A standard close action mic/monitors setup can usually provide a usable stage (which may be too kind a description), but when the audience is loud and pretty much on stage, I have never found a way to be happy -- even plugged in.

 

However when we play as a duo or a trio, we have found the Boze can make it work really well. It is relatively small, so it can work in a crowded area. It's setting are preprogrammed, so setup is fixed and easy. You certainly hear the actual music because the array is behind you. It can work for audiences of up to maybe 150 in a loud place.

 

If we always played bars and small restaurants, it would be all we use. Since we only do that only about 10% of the time, we only use it 10% of the time.

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

 

Tom - I just sent you a PM with some questions about using one vs. multiple LDC mics. TIA!

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