Deadgrateful Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So I've been trying out various models recently, and am still torn between an AJ and J45 to compliment my J200. The true vintage 45 has a really nice pre aged toner applied with cream binding rather than the usual white, similar to my tv j200. The 45 legend has an even more authentic vintage look, with a very thin and scuffed violin/mandolin lacquer. Anyway, this all looks very nice, but how will it age, I mean it already looks 30 years old but how will it actually look 10-15 years down the line? Or is it more the case that vintage toner simply replicates the toners and lacquers used on early models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So I've been trying out various models recently' date=' and am still torn between an AJ and J45 to compliment my J200. The true vintage 45 has a really nice pre aged toner applied with cream binding rather than the usual white, similar to my tv j200. The 45 legend has an even more authentic vintage look, with a very thin and scuffed violin/mandolin lacquer. Anyway, this all looks very nice, but how will it age, I mean it already looks 30 years old but how will it actually look 10-15 years down the line? Or is it more the case that vintage toner simply replicates the toners and lacquers used on early models?[/quote'] I like the look of the vintage toner on the Legend, but didn't care much for the scuffed look. I buffed mine out and know of others who did as well. Very early in the morning for such a thought provoking question. I believe you are correct in that the vintage toner simply replicates the toners and lacquers used on early models. However, I don't think anyone knows what it will look like after it also ages. Hopefully, we'll all be around long enough to find out for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I am personally not a big fan of "Vintage toner" on guitars. I prefer to let mine age on their own. My 15 year old Taylor has gotten a beautiful patina that only get's that way as a guitar ages from UV light and use. I'll tell you what it looks like in another 15 years when it truly will be a "Vintage" guitar. To me using Vintage toner is similar to scratching and beating up a perfectly good guitar to make it look like it's been played without getting the real Mojo from a truly aged guitar. Play it, love it, keep it for years and yes... your guitar can really have the mojo that only comes with one that has been in your hands for that long. Unfortunatly GAS and other things tend to make some people not keep guitars long enough to know what a truly authentic vintage guitar really looks and sounds like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsc Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Put me down for "me 2" to what Taylor player said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadgrateful Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 I take your point Taylor Player, although, unless you buy a custom shop or MC version, your pretty much guaranteed some sort of vintage toner/lacquer combo. My original point was that perhaps the older finishing techniques used on actual "vintage" guitars, are used on the "aged" modern versions, albeit slightly accelerated. Wood will always age and change tone underneath lacquer, but I have some binding on 20 year old instruments that is still pretty much white. I wish I could go back in time and buy a couple of 40's Gibsons, and compare the finish with today's versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Dog Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Put me down for "me 2" to what Taylor player said. me 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 This is the future my friends.......Relic'd and aged toner PLUS!!!! No worries about the first scratch, instant mojo (add your own!!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My original point was that perhaps the older finishing techniques used on actual "vintage" guitars' date=' are used on the "aged" modern versions, albeit slightly accelerated.[/quote'] Nope, it's just a matter of lightly tinting the last coat of lacquer to simulate the appearance of the finish having aged. Like a sunburst -- which is "just" a matter of not-so-lightly tinting the first coat of lacquer (and spraying the right amount in the right place) -- it's all cosmetics. The last major change to finishing Gibson flattops, going from wiping on the 'burst to spraying on the 'burst, happened back in the early '30s. The lacquer and how it's applied hasn't changed in any essential way since then. While I'm at it, I thought I'd mention that the unbuffed finish on the Legends gets shinier whether you want it to or not. The top of my J-45 Legend "prototype" was noticeably shinier after a year of nothing more than being wiped with a clean cotton cloth after playing, and is maybe a bit shinier than that now. It's never going to be a mirror finish like the typical highly buffed new guitar, but it actually looks much more like an aged vintage finish now than when I got it. (Anne's new L-00 Legend is not nearly as "dull" as the J-45 started out. We didn't make any special requests with regard to finishing, so it may be that they're standardly buffed a bit more than they were a couple of years ago.) -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have owned some Martins with this type of toner treatment and I don't like it. Real vintage guitars do yellow as the tannins come out of the grain in the top, but they don't change 100% evenly. The fake vintage look is the same across the top and looks like a yellow cellophane to me. If you want vintage looks, just wait - or buy vintage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadgrateful Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 The Martin aged toner is really over the top to me, and they certainly make a big deal out of it. But the toner applied to my TV J200 adi is very subtly tinted. The binding on the other hand is full on cream coloured, I'll be sure to post back here with my findings in 25 years :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 My 1981 Martin has the aging toner. I had never heard of aging toner before that and I suspect it was one of the first Martins to have it. I've never found it to be artificial looking at all. However the newer ones may look different, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have no strong opinion on this one but, for me, it's the same as aging or relicing (is there a verb "to relic"?) Ref Fender. Don't get me wrong I'd happily own any of the new reliced intruments but given a choice side by side, I'd choose the shiny new one with spruce coloured top. The constantly growing number of dings and scratches on my SWD are mine and, whilst I don't mistreat it, I don't get stressed out about it either. I'm looking forward to growing old disgracefully along with my guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I like honest ageing and honest patina. Lookin' for an 'aged' guit tar to me is like proposing to a woman then telling her she needs to wrinkle up her face a bit, make her hair look a bit gray, and have stretch marks surgically installed. There's just something not right about that. Me and my guit tar and my woman are growing old gracefully together. A thing like that you shouldn't rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians356 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Frank Ford ages his repair lacquer the natural way - in sunlight. I bought a brand new quart of lacquer, decanted half of it into two small glass jars (love those Cara Mia artichoke hearts!) and left the jars in the Nevada sun to age them. The first one I retrieved when it reached a medium amber, the second stayed out until it was strong sun tea brown (as viewed in the jars - they'll both be a lot lighter when applied.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingthatisdone Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 not all guitars should look the same new. it's just a look, like sunburst, though it seems that too many forumers feel threatened by it. to answer your question, it will age. it will become a dark orange/brown, unless the maker has added in UV protection to the mix (i know larrivee does, and perhaps taylor). the UV protection breaks down as well, just takes a lot longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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