elantric Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 HD.6X Pro In Depth Review: http://www.guitar-stuff.net/2007/02/04/gibson-hd6x-digital-guitar-in-depth/ Craig Anderton HD.6C Pro Review http://www.harmony-central.com/articles/reviews/gibsondigitalguitar_review/ HD.6X Pro MP3 Clips By Craig Anderton But words ultimately fail in describing this guitar, because you can't imagine what it does if you haven't heard it in action. So here's the story on the clips: LPD_BassSplit.mp3 http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_BassSplit.mp3 This is the "NIN bass meets Andy Summers chorus" I alluded to earlier. It's a tough, gritty sound that shows some of the guitar's "split" capabilities. LPD_GuitarSynth.mp3 http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_GuitarSynth.mp3 This reminds me a lot of the old Roland GR-300 sound. This was obtained simply by plugging in AudioDamage's FuzzPlus 2.2. into Sonar's FX bin for each string. LPD_Mod+Delay http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_ModDelay.mp3 This is just a pretty sound with chorus on each string, as well as delay. LPD_PrettyChorus.mp3 http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_PrettyChorus.mp3 This is variation on the above, with a little more resonance added to the modulation. LPD_SyncDelay.mp3 http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_SyncDelay.mp3 A little synchronized delay can really add "animation" and interest to the sound. LPD_SynchroSonic.mp3 http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_SynchroSonic.mp3 This is a fairly complex patch. All six strings feed into an aux bus that terminates in a Guitar Rig 2 distortion sound. The bottom three strings feed a second aux bus that terminates in another instance of Guitar Rig 2, loaded with a synth-type filter and an "analog," tempo-synched step generator. Finally, a little bit of the straight sound of the bottom three strings is mixed in for a little more definition. LPD_TechnoGuitar.mp3 http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_TechnoGuitar.mp3 This is actually just a simple hex power chord, but processed within Sonar to add enveloping/synched effects. LPD_WahLand.mp3 http://img.harmony-central.com/audio/GibsonAudioExamples/LPD_WahLand.mp3 Each string has a resonant filter with slow LFO, and they're all summed together to make a big, moving, animated filter sound. Craig Anderton HD.6X Pro Blog http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Lifestyle/Blogs/CraigAnderton/CraigAndertonOfEV2/ INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEOS: DLP Overview The Magic Network Hardware vs. Software Drumming With HD.6X Pro Watch them all here: http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Lifestyle/Blogs/CraigAnderton/CraigAndertonOfEV2/# HD.6X Pro and the Bose L1 http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6366055944/m/6391078405 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgarlie Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks for posting all this in one place -- some I have seen before, some not. Telling might be that Craig hasn't made a blog entry in about 18 months. I also found his comment that MaGIC was designed for the future of music networking (as Spock would say) "interesting". Thanks again, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgarlie Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Well, I went back to the archives and got caught up on some of the interesting Dark Fire/Gibson Technology/HD.6X post -- good stuff. I signed up way back when I got the HD, but since there wasn't much activity (for the HD), I lost track of it. Also, for the record, I have emailed Craig a few times and posted to his forum on Harmony Central, but have never received a reply -- but in fairness, I was usually asking about a direct digital interface for the HD, for which, apparently, there is no answer. So along those lines, as my quest continues, it appears the HD uses Altera chips (BPGA and processor) -- http://www.altera.com/corporate/news_room/releases/releases_archive/2004/products/nr-gibson_chooses_altera.html However, I can't seem to confirm anything after this press release (yes, I emailed Altera, no response yet.) After reading the MaGIC specs, the guitar seems more evolutionary then revolutionary -- the MaGIC idea is really to put a music network on top of standard (computer) networking protocols. But right up front the spec states -- 3. Complete digital solution: Existing digital systems rely on archaic analog interfaces to connect with other devices. The increasing demand for interconnected devices has resulted in diminished sound quality, caused by repeated analog-to-digital and digital-to-analog conversions. These conversions often lead to prohibitive size and power product requirements and create a situation that begs for a universal end-to-end digital solution. So what happened? I've worked enough software project to smell a work around, and BoB looks like that. I find it hard to believe HJ would give up on this without some serious problem they aren't discussing. My best guess is that it is the latency problem -- at least trying to do it for all 32 channels. Don't know if anyone stepped back and just tried to do it for the 6-8 needed for the guitar. Seems like this should be doable since Firewire and USB interfaces can handle it (but then, they aren't bidirectional either. ) If anyone (who ever reads this) knows anything or is interested in discussing it, I would sure be interested in discussing it. Better than getting a packet analyzer and trying to reverse engineer this thing only to find out three years down the road -- oohhh, so that's why it wouldn't work:-) Thanks. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgarlie Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Steve -- Have you ever tried splitting the string outputs from BoB -- one going to the computer inputs and one going to (say) a RMC Fanbox and then to a synth device (eg, Roland VG-99)? There would be a 3 dB loss across the split, but I would think you would still have an acceptable signal for drive both paths. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 I would check - but I do not own a HD.6X Pro! I simply understand it well and researched it for past 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgarlie Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Seven years! You are an early bird (I read about your Apple II and Mac days -- with me, it was NeXT.) But you do have a Dark Fire, so maybe you can answer this -- how do the six independent string signals get from the guitar to the RIP? From the docs, I only see a 1/4" RTS input jack for the guitar -- how does it convert this to the Hex output? Also, they mention a custom cable here -- don't they use the standard 13-pin DIN (Hex) cable? I know -- DF questions, but I ask in my never ending HD interface quest:-) Thanks, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Read "Dark Fire Technology" area here: http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12665 google "gibson magic digital audio" a who's who list of talent worked on it. http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lad/2003/4/15/73975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alouf Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 That second picture on the first post is a GORGEOUS looking Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgarlie Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I got a reply from Cirrus -- it appears all work related to MaGIC was stopped in favor of CobraNet. Doesn't look like anyone there (at this time) has any knowledge of MaGIC. So, for now, looks like I am at a dead end. Might go on another realtime DSP project in the near future. If I get access to a packet analyzer, I might play around, but looks like the (RMC) Fanout and BoB are my best options for now. If anyone comes across this thread and has knowledge of unpacking MaGIC packets on a FPGA, I'd sure like to hear from you. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Cirrus? Bulk of early Magic was done in partnership with Xilinx then they shifted to Altera in 2004 Cirrus would always be viewed as the competition, since they own Peak Audio's Cobranet since 2001 1999 Gibson's GIMIC / MAGIC Media-Accelerated Global Information Carrier Specification http://www.gibson.com/en%2Dus/Divisions/Audio/MaGIC/SPECIFICATIONS/ 2003 Gibson / Xilinx - CES Best of Show Award for the Gibson MaGIC true-digital guitar. (1st generation) http://www.xilinx.com/prs_rls/design_win/0303gibson_ces.htm 2004 - Gibson drops Xilinx - goes with Altera Cyclone http://www.altera.com/corporate/news_room/releases/releases_archive/2004/products/nr-gibson_chooses_altera.html 2005 Gibson HD6X Pro - Digital Guitar (2nd generation) http://www.gibson.com/DigitalGuitarNew/gibsonDigital.html 2007 Gibson recruits Craig Anderton to road test latest HD6X Pro Digital Guitar http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Blogs/CraigAnderton/CraigAndertonOfEV2/ === this may be a path for more info: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/avt/current/msg00575.html * To: "'avt@ietf.org'" <avt@ietf.org> * Subject: Re: [AVT] What a shame these guys seem to have never heard of RTP * From: "Flaks, Jason" <JSF@dolby.com> * Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 10:24:35 -0800 * List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Working Group <avt.ietf.org> * Sender: avt-admin@ietf.org Hello, Interestingly enough I worked on the original specification for MAGIC (www.gibsonmagic.com) which was then called GMICS (about 2 years ago). At the time of development we were unaware of RTP as an option. There were applications out there for professional audio over IP, but the latency involved was far high for live performance. MAGIC really just uses the Ethernet physical layer. Packets are sent at the sample rate, and network induced jitter is resolved with a PLL. In the end, it will be a miracle if they ever find an Ethernet cable that can handle the abuse of the road anyway, but perhaps an implementation of live audio using RTP/UDP/IP over 1394 or USB would be interesting. -Jason Flaks Dolby Labs JSF@dolby.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sittin bull Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 :- great x pickup,each string get the sound!good idea!sittin bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgarlie Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Thanks Steve -- I have pretty much email anyone whose name appears with "Gibson" and "MaGIC". It appears Gibson was changing chip manufacturers every year -- the last I have (2005) is Cirrus -- http://www.cirrus.com/en/press/releases/P470.html This (joint?) venture seemed more aimed at large scale (musical) networking involving CobraNet and Magic. I was hoping someone there might have programmed a chip for unpacking MaGIC packets. If they did, it seems lost now. Maybe these changes (in chips) were a result of no one successfully programming MaGIC into their chips, but it exist in some level in BoB so you would have thought Henry would have had some pure digital interface made (at least just for the guitar channels) just for the "wow" factor, but no such luck. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 I have pretty much email anyone whose name appears with "Gibson" and "MaGIC". It appears Gibson was changing chip manufacturers every year -- the last I have (2005) is Cirrus -- Man - no wonder it died! Cirrus is Cobranet - and they are intent to Kill any competing Ethernet digital audio transport protocol http://www.cobranet.info/en/support/cobranet/ oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgarlie Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Yes, CobraNet is a ethernet protocol for send digital audio (packets), so not sure why there would be any association with Gibson's MaGIC. Maybe I can program the HD.6X FPGA for CobraNet instead of MaGIC, of course, it would involve a can opener (since the chips are sealed in a metal box;-) Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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