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mking

J-45 True Vintage Top Bracing

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I suppose a definitive answer from the experts here (not me), you might need some mirror shots of your bracing.

 

I can tell you I had a 2007 J45 TV with a sitka top (not adi). It was one of the first TVs... and it did have advanced bracing.

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I suppose a definitive answer from the experts here (not me), you might need some mirror shots of your bracing.

 

I can tell you I had a 2007 J45 TV with a sitka top (not adi). It was one of the first TVs... and it did have advanced bracing.

 

You had the the same guitar I now have. Mine is a 2007 and Gibson told me it has a Sitka top. They said that 2007 was the last year for Sitka and then they went to Adirondack.

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It is my understanding that the J45 TV shares the same top bracing as the AJ. This is essentially Ren Ferguson's modern take on the scalloped bracing that was used in the original AJs. Other guitars such as the J-35 historically had a slim taper non-scalloped bracing. Gibson did not start using scalloped top bracing in all its guitars until around 1942.

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The primary functional difference between the original AJs and J-45s was not the scalloping but the angle of the x-braces. The AJs crossed at a larger angle -- 105 degrees.

 

Best,

-Tom

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The J-45 True Vintage has the same top bracing as the modern Advanced Jumbo. The back bracing, however, is taller and thinner, while the AJ's is low and wide.

 

Red 333

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Besides scalloped, I read from somewhere, if I remember right, that AJ seems to have forward shifted bracing whereas J-45 TV does not. Correct me if I have a wrong memory.

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Besides scalloped, I read from somewhere, if I remember right, that AJ seems to have forward shifted bracing whereas J-45 TV does not. Correct me if I have a wrong memory.

 

 

I have no idea regarding the forward shifted braces on the TV. Hopefully someone will know.

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The J-45 True Vintage has the same top bracing as the modern Advanced Jumbo. The back bracing, however, is taller and thinner, while the AJ's is low and wide.

 

Red 333

I was checking today ...the bracing on the back of the AJ is lower and wider with rounded tops. All the others have tall thin pointed tops to the back braces. Interesting.

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This was a characteristic of Gibson back bracing in the mid thirties. Beside on the AJ, you'll see this low, wide bracing on some J-35s (but not all of them!), Ray Whitley Recording Kings (they were built by Gibson and are similar to the J-35), and I think the J-55 (though I will have to refer back to pictures of I've taken of the J-55s I've seen to be sure).

 

Red 333

Edited by Red 333

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This was a characteristic of Gibson back bracing in the mid thirties. Beside on the AJ, you'll see this low, wide bracing on some J-35s (but not all of them!), Ray Whitley Recording Kings (they were built by Gibson and are similar to the J-35), and I think the J-55 (though I will have to refer back to pictures of I've taken of the J-55s I've seen to be sure).

 

Red 333

 

The new J35's have 1930's Advanced Bracing. Almost any web search will prove this to be true.

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This was a characteristic of Gibson back bracing in the mid thirties. Beside on the AJ, you'll see this low, wide bracing on some J-35s (but not all of them!), Ray Whitley Recording Kings (they were built by Gibson and are similar to the J-35), and I think the J-55 (though I will have to refer back to pictures of I've taken of the J-55s I've seen to be sure).

 

Red 333

 

With Gibson, of course, it often came down to different hands holding the tools. A friend of mine owns a late 1930s Gibson-made Recording King. He always described it as a J-55 without the stairstep headstock. When he brought in for restoration the guy doing the work stated he had never seen any guitar with as wide an angled X brace. He measured it and said it was around 108 degrees.

 

My 1942 J-50 has knife edge sharp back bracing and as best as I can describe it a triangular cross section tapered X brace.

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The new J35's have 1930's Advanced Bracing. Almost any web search will prove this to be true.

 

I never said otherwise. I was talking about guitars from the thirties, above, not new ones. More importantly, I was describing the back bracing, not top bracing.

 

Current J-35s have Advanced top bracing and the J-45 Standard's back bracing, which is medium density. The Fuller's 1939 J-35 Reissue, on the other hand, has the Advanced top bracing and the Advanced Jumbo's low and wide, denser back bracing.

 

Red 333

Edited by Red 333

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Here are a couple pictures I took recently of the back braces in various 1930's/40's vintage Gibsons, so you can see the difference between the low, wide, dense braces versus the tall, thin, knife's blades.

 

This is the low style, as seen on a 1939 J-35:

https://imgur.com/a/rEp46

 

DSC02894.md.jpg

 

This is the brace seen through the soundhole directly. The ones below it are two to three times as thick.

 

 

You can see its orientation to the soundhole better in this picture (though this is a 1936 Original Jumbo):

https://imgur.com/a/jZ0Gm

 

DSC0245693ebf9a89ee3b7fb.md.jpg

 

Red 333

Edited by Red 333

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If anyone is really interested, the UMGF maintains a Gibson bracing library.

 

I just went over there to take a look, and see if I could contribute; I've taken many pictures. I found the Martin bracing library (under Technical), but not the Gibson. Do you know what section it's in?

 

Thanks, zomby.

 

Red 333

Edited by Red 333

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I just went over there to take a look, and see if I could contribute; I've taken many pictures. I found the Martin bracing library (under Technical), but not the Gibson. Do you know what section it's in?

 

Thanks, zomby.

 

Red 333

 

 

Try this Red

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theunofficialmartinguitarforum/vintage-gibson-bracing-library-t1364.html

Edited by zombywoof

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This was a characteristic of Gibson back bracing in the mid thirties. Beside on the AJ, you'll see this low, wide bracing on some J-35s (but not all of them!), Ray Whitley Recording Kings (they were built by Gibson and are similar to the J-35), and I think the J-55 (though I will have to refer back to pictures of I've taken of the J-55s I've seen to be sure).

 

Red 333

My 2016 J35 has the thin tall bracing.

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My 2016 J35 has the thin tall bracing.

 

Yes.

 

In response to your post where you said it was interesting that your AJ's back braces were different from your other Gibsons, I started to talk about Gibson bracing in a historical context. The guitars I am talking about in the post you replied to above are 1930s/40s vintage. Sorry for the confusion. I later posted some pictures that I took of these different back bracing patterns on some mid-thirties to early forties Gibsons. See my post on the previous page where we discuss modern Gibson bracing.

 

To be clear, all J-35s built since the model's reintroduction in the 2000s (so far!) have the medium density*, tall back braces as found on the J-45 Standard, and the wide x bracing found on the modern Advanced Jumbo. I believe this to be true about the current model called the J-35 Vintage Collector's Edition, but I have not seen one in person and rely on photos from Gibson's website. The exception is the model named the Fuller's 1939 J-35 Reissue, which has the Advanced Jumbo's low and heavy back bracing. This model is sold exclusively by Fuller's Vintage Guitar in Houston, TX (the largest Gibson Acoustic dealer in the US, I think). It's possible there may be some variation of this model made for other Five Star Dealers made over the decade or so, as well.

 

Red 333

 

I don't know what Gibson calls them, but I call these braces medium density because they are not as thin as the "knife's blade" back bracing found on forties-era Gibsons, or the current J-45 Legend, for instance.

Edited by Red 333

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Here are my two Gibsons. The '03 WM45 which is braced like a regular ol' J45 (not forward shifted) and a '91 Southern Jumbo, back braces fatter and a bit lower than the WM45 - and the X braces are not forward shifted, like the WM45 or any J45 is supposed to be. But if I feel the x cross with my finger, the Southern J. is much lower away from sound hole than the WM45 - and they should both be the same? And the braces seem at wider angle on the SJ.

 

They sound similar but the WM45 has more in the face projection, more mid range out front and growl, whereas the Southern J. has more reverb to the bass and a more of nasal twang to the mids when pushed harder. SJ is smoother more mellow in tone overall. Both thump pretty good.

 

The last two pics show the WM45 is more forward and not as wide angle apart as the SJ, when I thought they was no difference in bracing in the modern 45 series?

 

j68EuTs.jpg

 

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HhXzWro.jpg

 

FPMfuGb.jpg

Edited by PickitPaul

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