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Gibson Epiphone SG 'Neck Dive" Poll


EpiSheriMan
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Happens from time to time. Mine doesnt have the issue, anyway though I use a wide leather strap with strap locks. Nevertheless on that SG model I seen the weights on them, some are around 5-1/2 lbs so perhaps a wide leather strap will work which I would try first anyway. To add to the issue it doesnt have Grovers which add about 7-8 ounces nor a very large control cavity to add weight.

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Got rid of my SG400 because of it. As soon as I let go of the neck it tried to tie my shoe laces. Didn't matter what strap I had on it either.

I contemplated putting an acoustic strap onto the headstock but I figured I already look dorky enough so I traded it (and another acoustic)

for a Gibson Flying V. Problem solved!

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Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments on this.

 

I'm going to make a sweeping statement and say that I think that around 90% of all SG's suffer from neck dive.

 

Yes there are ways of dealing with it like wide straps with suede backing but I'd be willing to bet that around 90% would drop with a simple vinyl strap. No an issue for most people but such a pity IMO as it could maybe be addressed by Gibson with design and could wood selection on the SG.

 

[sad]

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I'm going to make a sweeping statement and say that I think that around 90% of all SG's suffer from neck dive.

 

 

LOL, based on what, the poll you took? You would have to assume which it may exist but I haven't seen the evidence, that 90% of the necks on an SG weigh more than the body on the same 90%? It may be an interesting point do you know? Well, then think about those who seek light weight SGs as part of their desired guitar of good wood? So for sure theres a weight balance tipping point and so....the weight you buy should then be considered? I'm just saying this may be part of the equation I dont know but many prefer light weight mahogany.

 

 

Anyway since you fell in love now with regrets, what you could do is have made a metal/steel/aluminum pg and change the plastic knobs to brass add a weighted strap button on the bottom. That might have the neck hitting the door frames when you let go though.

Edited by Golden
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments on this.

 

I'm going to make a sweeping statement and say that I think that around 90% of all SG's suffer from neck dive.

 

Yes there are ways of dealing with it like wide straps with suede backing but I'd be willing to bet that around 90% would drop with a simple vinyl strap. No an issue for most people but such a pity IMO as it could maybe be addressed by Gibson with design and could wood selection on the SG.

 

[sad]

 

My G400 has some neck dive, but it's never really been much of a problem for me. I just use a regular strap.

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LOL, based on what, the poll you took? You would have to assume which it may exist but I haven't seen the evidence, that 90% of the necks on an SG weigh more than the body on the same 90%? It may be an interesting point do you know? Well, then think about those who seek light weight SGs as part of their desired guitar of good wood? So for sure theres a weight balance tipping point and so....the weight you buy should then be considered? I'm just saying this may be part of the equation I dont know but many prefer light weight mahogany.

 

 

Anyway since you fell in love now with regrets, what you could do is have made a metal/steel/aluminum pg and change the plastic knobs to brass add a weighted strap button on the bottom. That might have the neck hitting the door frames when you let go though.

 

Well I did say it was a 'sweeping statement', no? I thought it would get a rise out of a few peeps... [biggrin]

 

I was hoping to get more data from the poll but that didn't happen to prove my 'sweeping statement'. I am basing my opinion on reading all the various gutar forums on the issue and the fact that most players who say that they don't have the issue mostly use a wide leather straps and therefore don't feel neck dive. Yes we all know that all guitar woods are different and there are tuners and whammy barfactors that add weight to various parts of an SG but fundamentally the SG model is an unbalanced guitar design created by Gibson back in 1961. The thin lightwight body, heavy neck weight, freatboard length all help to contribute to this.

 

Are there execeptions? Of course, but I think that the percentage of SG's with neck dive are far higher than without.

 

Anyway its just one persons opinion right?

Edited by EpiSheriMan
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Guest Farnsbarns

 

Got rid of my SG400 because of it. As soon as I let go of the neck it tried to tie my shoe laces. Didn't matter what strap I had on it either.

I contemplated putting an acoustic strap onto the headstock but I figured I already look dorky enough so I traded it (and another acoustic)

for a Gibson Flying V. Problem solved!

 

That is the most preposterous reason I have ever heard of getting rid of a guitar cause when you tie your shoe laces with your guitar on it did a neck dive. How many times a day playing your guitar do your shoes come untied? They make these things called guitar stands.

 

61K+IclxH5L._SCLZZZZZZZ__SY500_SX500_.jpg

 

Look Mom no hands.

 

I think you misread that. [lol]

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Well I did say it was a 'sweeping statement', no? I thought it would get a rise out of a few peeps... [biggrin]

 

I was hoping to get more data from the poll but that didn't happen to prove my 'sweeping statement'. I am basing my opinion on reading all the various gutar forums on the issue and the fact that most players who say that they don't have the issue mostly use a wide leather straps and therefore don't feel neck dive. Yes we all know that all guitar woods are different and there are tuners and whammy barfactors that add weight to various parts of an SG but fundamentally the SG model is an unbalanced guitar design created by Gibson back in 1961. The thin lightwight body, heavy neck weight, freatboard length all help to contribute to this.

 

Are there expections? Of course, but I think that the percentage of SG's with neck dive are far higher than without.

 

Anyway its just one persons opinion right?

 

The average weight of a raw SG Standard body is 4.03 lbs, which is in the normal range for a Gibson SG-style guitar. Average weight of the neck is .98 lbs according to Gibson and thats the "routed" SG. MAYBE the small percent is sort of like a squeaky wheel. Seems to be, just saying....but you like the SG light did you say? LOL, hey mine has Grovers and doesnt do that. Try a black chrome pick-guard they are pretty heavy, wont even know the difference.

Edited by Golden
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of all the SGs and other double cut guitars like the ibanez ar325, most of them had some neck dive but not all. i never understood how people get success from a wider rougher strap. all it ever did for me was bunch up my shirt in the back and left shoulder. i saw the youtube video where the guy filled the control cavity with shot to offset the weight bias. i thought it was the worst possible solution. jmo though, ymmv. i think it's a matter of pin placement, but i don't actually know one way or the other. neck dive wouldn't stop me from buying another one though. they're just too cool

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I answered "I don't care," but I have never played either of my Gibson SGs (a 2004 SG Supreme and a 2007 '67 SG Special Reissue with P-90s GOW) with a nylon strap so I can't comment with personal experience. I only use quality leather straps.

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The odds of you receiving a SG with neck dive seems rather slim. Just saying, course looking for very very lights SGs will increase the odds and probably more so with this model. The SG Jr is one of the models basically stripped down and light to begin with as the weights indicate. The Jr weight reduction comes not from special selected magical wood but reduction of hardware in the body area where it would add weight to the body end-reduce neck dive. They had one the other day at 5.5 lbs. The bodies are just a lot of the average 4lb bodies as are the necks.

 

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SGJRH18VENH?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsJPBst6E2QIVkbbACh2KnQZREAQYAyABEgKlxPD_BwE

with

 

 

The front strap button placement does make a difference in such a situation since its placed in back of the balance point IF the wood neck is unusually heavy and the body unusually light. Which is why I suggest this is much rarer than people assume. The mid point is the 12th fret the guitar 40-inches - half way 12th fret.

Edited by Golden
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The odds of you receiving a SG with neck dive seems rather slim. Just saying, course looking for very very lights SGs will increase the odds and probably more so with this model. The SG Jr is one of the models basically stripped down and light to begin with as the weights indicate. The Jr weight reduction comes not from special selected magical wood but reduction of hardware in the body area where it would add weight to the body end-reduce neck dive. They had one the other day at 5.5 lbs. The bodies are just a lot of the average 4lb bodies as are the necks.

 

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SGJRH18VENH?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsJPBst6E2QIVkbbACh2KnQZREAQYAyABEgKlxPD_BwE

with

 

 

The front strap button placement does make a difference in such a situation since its placed in back of the balance point IF the wood neck is unusually heavy and the body unusually light. Which is why I suggest this is much rarer than people assume. The mid point is the 12th fret the guitar 40-inches - half way 12th fret.

 

Thanks Golden. That all makes sense regarding hardware.

 

Mine is 6 lb 6 oz so unless I just had bad luck I'd say it's not just the light 5.5 lb juniors that suffer from the dreaded 'dive'...

 

#-o

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6.6 wow, you may not need a strap it probably floats. So did you name this sg "neck dive"? And photos of neck dive? I kinda like P-90s ....maybe they put your strap button slightly out of tolerance. I only seen "one" with neck dive back in 99-Standard with a stock ABR nice SG too. Didnt stop anyone from playing it. I guess once in a blue moon, one must slip through. :)

 

 

That must be one of the rare light mahogany bodies under average at 3.6 lbs married to a slightly heavier neck. Rare animal in the kingdom. They usually sound great as you see most of these rare animals ALSO sound very good. :) Did you say you had a photo?

Edited by Golden
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