Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums
Sign in to follow this  
merciful-evans

modern pop music brainwashing?

Recommended Posts

Yes, I don't listen to it. The various "pop awards" baffle me because they laud people I have never heard of. And when I do hear them I tend to wish I hadn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is more than some oldie complaining about rubbish new music. It goes into great detail and offers evidence of various sorts.

For instance, I had never heard of the Millenial Whoop or Max Martin before watching this.

 

 

BTW, I found the sound kept 'turning itself off', so I used subtitles as here

 

2q2466t.jpg

 

I think it was due to the newly installed version of firefox (which is dire!). Chrome seems ok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jmo, but i tink the reasons why are more important. if you think about it in the strictest terms, it's rather nefarious. pop is the soylent green of music.

 

but that aside, it's been going on for far longer than what the video claims. here is the proof of that:

 

https://youtu.be/JdxkVQy7QLM

 

haha ! that was good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought about the “millennial whoop” and I think it is just a common vocal inflection that you could find in music from any era.. I can’t think of any reason why it would be considered unique to “millennial” music

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very well done and I agree with his premises. Albeit a bit long. Good onetheless.

 

I knew about Max Martin but not the other guy. Seems they have an assembly line of songs. Following formulas drains the creativity in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever...

 

You gotta start somewhere. Hopefully, people's first exposure to music is from their parents whose music appreciation has evolved.

 

I had an X-generationer tell me that all Blues sounds the same.

 

I get the Bieber thing. People, esp. young people, want to be cool. But, I liked the guy who suggested that it is all music, and people should listen to what they like. Any work of art has to stand on its own independent of who the artist is, however, the time period at which a song was written is relevant. I also get that lack of talent should not be rewarded. Formulaic music is written to sell. We can thank the likes of Simon Cowell for that.

Edited by zigzag

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whatever...

 

You gotta start somewhere. Hopefully, people's first exposure to music is from their parents whose music appreciation has evolved.

 

I had an X-generationer tell me that all Blues sounds the same.

 

I get the Bieber thing. People, esp. young people, want to be cool. But, I liked the guy who suggested that it is all music, and people should listen to what they like. Any work of art has to stand on its own independent of who the artist is, however, the time period at which a song was written is relevant. I also get that lack of talent should not be rewarded. Formulaic music is written to sell. We can thank the likes of Simon Cowell for that.

Blues music at some point became as formulaic, if not more formulaic than almost any other genre. Think about it, most of the songs use the same chord progression (1,4,5), same lyrical themes, same scales and phrasing in solos and melodies.. it really doesn’t get much more formulaic than that.

 

You listen to more blues music, and hear more of the innovative blues music that most people would not hear now days. The average young person today will not have nearly the depth of understanding of the blues that you do, and they would be absolutely right to say it all sounds the same given their limited exposure.

 

On the other end you have the people from your generation that do not have the depth of understanding of new music and they think it is all Justin Bieber or something like that.

 

It would be reasonable to assume that this has been going on for a long time, and will continue to happen..

Edited by Dub-T-123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any work of art has to stand on its own independent of who the artist is, however, the time period at which a song was written is relevant. I also get that lack of talent should not be rewarded. Formulaic music is written to sell. We can thank the likes of Simon Cowell for that.

 

Right on the money.

 

Pop is convenience music, like fast food is a convenience meal. It does what you want it to with a minimum of input from yourself. Its purpose is unashamedly commercial. It doesnt even have to be any good.

 

 

I remember the term 'heavy' before metal hijacked it. It usually described classical music that was harder to appreciate. Scheonberg was heavy, Mozart was light. The point is some music requires active listening. You need to invest time and attention before you 'get anything out of it'. That idea is probably a crazy notion now?

 

 

Modern pop music is more efficient than any pop music that has gone before. The film supports that assertion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blues:

 

I used to think that Blues was TOO simple and inward looking. Not even a proper genre. But it's got something special about it. It allows even average players to express a feel, its more than just a groove. I think its because of the way you can mess with the time. Play in front or behind the beat. Or do both in just one phrase. Its a direct emotional experience, or at least it can be. Blues allows that more than any other music I can think of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have 8 grandchildren, aged 17 to 2 years old. For the past 10 years, all have lived within a few miles of us, so we've seen several of them progress. Their taste in and appreciation of food mirrors their 'musical' taste.

It takes a long time to acquire an appreciation for Jazz, just like some esoteric wine from California. It does not come automatically as part of the aging process, but has to be worked at. If you deprived an adult of any exposure to music for 21 years and then, voila, presented him with a choice of 'Teensy, Weensy Spider" or Wes Montgomery - guess which one they'd listen to !

If I were 40 years younger - I'd be inundating my kids with progressively better music - somehow gritting my teeth knowing they had to go through the Rascal Flats to get to Townes Van Zandt. After all, Life is a Highway, but I'm thankful that old road's a friend of mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you agree with this video then you are saying you are brainwashing your children with jazz. According to this video, we would like music the first time we heard it if it’s good music. According to this video, by repeatedly exposing your grandchildren to jazz you are brainwashing them

 

The question is, is it objectively better to brainwash with one genre or another?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The question is, is it objectively better to brainwash with one genre or another?

 

No, and exposure to music is different to brainwashing. The film makes it clear how the conditioning works. I am not making the assertion that its 'brainwashing', but whatever you call its different to exposure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if you agree with this video then you are saying you are brainwashing your children with jazz. According to this video, we would like music the first time we heard it if it's good music. According to this video, by repeatedly exposing your grandchildren to jazz you are brainwashing them

 

The question is, is it objectively better to brainwash with one genre or another?

 

If by "you" you mean me - Short Answer: NO.

Long Answer:

A) I didn't watch the video. So, I don't know if I agree with it. I clicked on it 3 x and got different videos, preceded by ads I had to watch, so I can't say if I agree or disagree with it.

B) But, I don't agree with your interpretation of what the video claims - that 'we would like music the first time we heard it if it's good music'. Because 'good' is in the ear of the beholder. A 2 year old defines 'good' differently than any 4 year old will.

C) I'm not exposing let alone 'brainwashing' my grandchildren. To jazz, or any other genre. Sorry if my comment led you to think I was talking about 'brainwashing'. What I wrote was that if my own kids were young again, I would PROGRESSIVELY expose them to what I felt was better and better music, starting with Teensy Weensy Spider and going up to Rascal Flats, ending up with folks like Wes Montgomery and Townes Van Zandt after many years.

And, finally, to answer your question (assuming it's directed to me, based on your reference to 'grandchildren') I don't know if I can answer your actual question - because I can't get my arms around the concept of 'better brainwashing", so if I could go Back To The Future I would not approach it as 'brainwashing' but as 'music appreciation'. And, therefore, obviously, not any one genre.

Except never, ever Rap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm thankful that none of our kids listen to this kind of stuff. I prefer real musicians writing their own music performing it with singers who can really sing or at least yell in key and don't need auto-tune. I was semi-surprised that it is just a couple of guys writing a lot of the "hits" these days. If the music industry keeps going this direction, we'll soon be like the people in the movie "Demolition Man" singing commercial jingles from the 70's and 80's. The entertainment industry seems to be stuck in this move of "Why create something new when we can reproduce something already done?" A lot of these movie and TV show recreations or "reboots" are really terrible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If by "you" you mean me - Short Answer: NO.

Long Answer:

A) I didn't watch the video. So, I don't know if I agree with it. I clicked on it 3 x and got different videos, preceded by ads I had to watch, so I can't say if I agree or disagree with it.

B) But, I don't agree with your interpretation of what the video claims - that 'we would like music the first time we heard it if it's good music'. Because 'good' is in the ear of the beholder. A 2 year old defines 'good' differently than any 4 year old will.

C) I'm not exposing let alone 'brainwashing' my grandchildren. To jazz, or any other genre. Sorry if my comment led you to think I was talking about 'brainwashing'. What I wrote was that if my own kids were young again, I would PROGRESSIVELY expose them to what I felt was better and better music, starting with Teensy Weensy Spider and going up to Rascal Flats, ending up with folks like Wes Montgomery and Townes Van Zandt after many years.

And, finally, to answer your question (assuming it's directed to me, based on your reference to 'grandchildren') I don't know if I can answer your actual question - because I can't get my arms around the concept of 'better brainwashing", so if I could go Back To The Future I would not approach it as 'brainwashing' but as 'music appreciation'. And, therefore, obviously, not any one genre.

Except never, ever Rap.

You’re saying you didn’t watch the video, but you disagree with my interpretation of the video.. I don’t understand.

 

I didn’t realize that your reply in this thread was meant to be interpreted outside the context of this thread when I first replied..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, and exposure to music is different to brainwashing. The film makes it clear how the conditioning works. I am not making the assertion that its 'brainwashing', but whatever you call its different to exposure.

I was replying to fortyyearspickin sorry bud

 

I do believe that how fortyyearspickin describes conditioning his grandchildren to listen to music that he likes is exactly what the video describes as “brainwashing”, the difference being the incentive and musical genre

 

I am trying to think about this objectively without considering which genre I prefer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Objectively, people have been whining about pop music since there has been pop music. You can listen to it, not listen to it, or get advertising hits on yer ut00b in your brilliant...whining about pop music. And then call yourself insightful and cutting edge, while you...whine about pop music like yer pappy and his pappy before him.

 

rct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Scheonberg was heavy, Mozart was light.

 

 

Think that's the first time I've ever heard anyone mention Schoenberg on these pages. A lot of his music is definitely not an easy listen, but interesting all the same and I do appreciate some of the Serial compositions. I always found I could latch on to composers like Penderecki more.

Edited by cody78

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Objectively, people have been whining about pop music since there has been pop music. You can listen to it, not listen to it, or get advertising hits on yer ut00b in your brilliant...whining about pop music. And then call yourself insightful and cutting edge, while you...whine about pop music like yer pappy and his pappy before him.

 

rct

 

Maybe I should move to New Jersey? :huh:

 

Not listening to pop music is not an option where I am. Its in shops, cafes, the street, passing cars, TV ads, hotels, cruise ships, telephones, gardens, beaches, trains, hospitals, lifts and up telegraph poles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I should move to New Jersey? :huh:

 

Not listening to pop music is not an option where I am. Its in shops, cafes, the street, passing cars, TV ads, hotels, cruise ships, telephones, gardens, beaches, trains, hospitals, lifts and up telegraph poles.

 

I listen to it all the time. It's a good way to get first hand listens to what they are doing these days in studios in the big cities. It's a great way to hear many arrangements of the same stuff over and over, and how well they can do it. It's a good way to hear and learn restraint, along with when to be over the top, even if with just one line on the keys. It's a great way to hear what writers are putting together these days.

 

But it isn't the end of Black Sabbath because you actually actively listened to a Taylor Swift song and how they put it together. It doesn't mean Zeppelin is over because you paid attention to modern production, engineering, and spatial stuff going on. You won't turn gay or get stupid because you <shudder> LISTENED to something.

 

I'd think a whole bunch of people that make music would listen to all kindsa stuff. I listen to The Highway a lot on the road to hear what they are doing in NashVegas because they are really good at it. I didn't run out and buy boots and change my name to Slim.

 

Spa. On the satellite in yer car, find Spa. I listen to that all the time. I don't smoke weed, I don't do yoga, I don't eat vegetarian, I haven't moved to California because I listen to Spa.

 

Christ on a stick, it's just music. All you have to do is listen or not, but don't spend what was that vid? 20 minutes on the internet pissing and moaning about the end of the world because of it. And then generate how many pages of comments from people all concurring that guess what? Music they don't like is sh1t. I'm shocked to hear that. Even funnier, they don't even listen to it and it is sh1t! Take the vocs off and listen to the arrangements and the instrumentation and the pan and fade and you'd love it because you don't know which stuffed bag of pop kid sang it.

 

Not You you, or anyone else here You, the Imperial You you.

 

rct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're saying you didn't watch the video, but you disagree with my interpretation of the video.. I don't understand.

 

I didn't realize that your reply in this thread was meant to be interpreted outside the context of this thread when I first replied..

 

Sorry - I wasn't clear - sort of hard to explain. I fully accept that your interpretation of the video was accurate. I was trying to state that I do not agree with the video itself, relying on your interpretation of it.

 

I'm saying encouraging your kiddo to move on from Barney to Sesame Street is a good thing. And, when he's spent enough time with Elmo - expose him to the Weebles. If your teenager thinks Rascal Flats is great, buy him a CD by Sturgill Simpson. Don't rely on random, slow meandering - he'll be exposed to lots of different stuff through his friends. Much of it will be crap. Get some good stuff in front of him and he'll develop a sense of what he likes sooner and keep his mind open to new things. Nothing sadder than a 30 year old who thinks Justin Bieber is the epitome of 21st century music.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...