Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

In the news...


rct

Recommended Posts

Why not just be a guitar company that makes.. wait for it ... GUITARS. Like really nice ones that us Americans can afford (and the Aussies and our chaps over in the UK too, don't want to leave them out, hell all of Europe) not just the Japanese in colors that are pleasing to the eye. No pink or neon green or colored like a centipede or whatever.

 

I'm with ya!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 69
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Why not just be a guitar company that makes.. wait for it ... GUITARS. Like really nice ones that us Americans can afford (and the Aussies and our chaps over in the UK too, don't want to leave them out, hell all of Europe) not just the Japanese in colors that are pleasing to the eye. No pink or neon green or colored like a centipede or whatever.

 

[thumbup] please apply for the CEO gig when it gets advertised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen this sort of thing a few times here in Britain. Rover cars. Sold to BMW, BMW took the Mini and threw the rest in the trash. Shouldn't have been allowed. Jaguar/Land Rover. They had the XF ready for release and the Evoque was ready too. So they let India buy it! Why? The government should have taken it over and made it a state run company. I'd hate to see Gibson bought by the Chinese or Russians. It has to be American owned. I've seen the talk of Bonamassa being involved. But perhaps he could lead a buy out of just Gibson guitars? Get a couple of billionaires to back him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It has to be American owned.

Well as far as I'm aware in my lifetime since 1969 it's been owned by a corporation based in Panama and then an Argentinian Polak, so I'm note sure about ownership, but I'd say being American made is a big part of what makes them desireable and I can imagine if that was not the case then the American models would be considered the 'real' Gibsons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In no particular order:

You have a CEO who decides that a guitar company really isn't a guitar company anymore, they're really a one stop shopping entertainment company.

They buy a bunch of mid-fi electronics companies which fail to set the world on fire.

The CEO decides that guitar players really want electrical doohickeys tuning their guitars and the ideal instrument would be some sort of cross between a synthesizer and a guitar.

When that kind of flops the thing to do is to have two guitar line ups, forcing the dealers to double their inventory.

Smaller dealerships are forced out in favor of giant chains.

To increase guitar sales the best way to do it is to increase the cost of the instrument. That adds value in the eyes of the consumer.

To improve the profit margin they switch to PCB boards instead of traditional point to point wiring.

Add coil tapping to nearly everything even if nobody asked for it. Also add DIP switches to the PCB boards even though nobody asked for it.

To improve the profit margin they eliminate their traditional nibs but then have to reverse course the following year.

They get caught with imported grey market ebony and are forced to use a synthetic finger board material.

Make fret boards out of two thin sheets of rosewood until someone notices it.

Start to replace rosewood with torrified Grenadillo and see if that goes over okay.

New models are introduced and quickly vanish due to lack of sales.

Instead of having a few variants of a model range they introduce hundreds of options and colors along with various tiers of replications of guitars that they made when they only had a few variants of a model range.

The replications, no matter how lowly the model, are absurdly overpriced to stimulate desirability.

To improve the profit margin they offer gig bags in place of a hard shell case for models under $2000 (subject to change).

To stimulate sales they lower guitar prices for a model year's introduction and then rapidly raise them.

To bolster acoustic guitar sales they offer them in garish neon paint jobs and tack on electronic tuners and the like.

Their major retailer has been teetering on the bank of financial ruin for at least a decade.

Quality control means checking some boxes on a piece of paper and sticking that in the case. In some cases it may not even be possible to adjust the truss rod.

The bills are coming due.

 

Have I missed anything?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. The only things you left out were the positive ones.

You've compiled an exhaustive, impressive list of everything someone could take exception with. Sort of like someone who wanted to depose management would do. A corporate take-over of a privately held company? They didn't cover that when I got my MBA. (Sorry FZ Fan, not intended to be a jab.)

You've conveniently ignored the fact each of your complaints has two sides. The Fish & Wildlife raid with armed agents threatening little old ladies working in the factory with jail time, was based on interpretation of the interactions of foreign and US laws. In the end NO charges were filed, and Gibson had to settle. But the confiscated inventory coincidentally put Gibson production at a major disadvantage compared to their competitors. What would you have done? Shut down until the intransigent government agreed to settle and fire thousands of workers - or use substitute materials, identical to what other manufacturers were using? The garish neon paint jobs - producing a hundred green or pink acoustics to win sales from people who would otherwise buy a garish neon color from Martin doesn't hurt a J45 sunburst owner at all. Electric guitars seem to include color in their marketability. you seem to have conveniently ignored the good things he did. Like personally save the company from bankruptcy and either being dissolved or purchased by the Chinese. What about the J-15? What about the resurrection of the J35? Yeah, Mom&Pops got squeezed out. But Bozeman cannot produce enough guitars to stock the shelves of 10,ooo music stores with a good selection of each model, and ensure there are 'technicians' that can maintain and setup the guitars. You state Gibson (and their major retailer) have been teetering on the brink of bankruptcy for a decade. Yet, they seem to have been satisfying most of the people most of the time - probably 95% of them.

The other 5% seem to show up here regularly.

You said you're tour of the Martin factory led you to believe Gibson produced more acoustics than Martin. I would guess Martin produces 5x as many acoustics as Gibson. But they don't produce electrics. So, comparing the two companies is like apples and oranges. Still fruit, but that's about it.

Additionally, Martin (and Taylor) mass produce tens of thousands in Mexico and China and put their name on them. Gibson Corporation's foreign-based competition is Epiphone. Makes it easy to know what your getting. No 'bait and switch'.

You state you will never purchase a Gibson Acoustic and suggest their Hummingbird is equivalent to an Epiphone H'bird. That speaks volumes. (But ignores Tone.)

Apologies to all of you who feel this response was 'harsh'. I felt the listing was one-sided and argumentative - and needed perspective.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Fish & Wildlife raid with armed agents threatening little old ladies working in the factory with jail time, was based on interpretation of the interactions of foreign and US laws. In the end NO charges were filed, and Gibson had to settle. But the confiscated inventory coincidentally put Gibson production at a major disadvantage compared to their competitors. What would you have done? Shut down until the intransigent government agreed to settle and fire thousands of workers - or use substitute materials, identical to what other manufacturers were using?....

 

Mmmmmm..... not quite the full facts and absolutely nowhere near the full story. What really happened can't be said on this forum, but it is public information. The only people threatened with jail were... uh... the guy who was caught and his superiors, if you can guess who that might be. If you have an MBA, you have all the tools you need to find the truth. It's not for me to argue the facts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Yeah, Mom&Pops got squeezed out. But Bozeman cannot produce enough guitars to stock the shelves of 10,ooo music stores with a good selection of each model, and ensure there are 'technicians' that can maintain and setup the guitars...

 

I agree with you completely, but you always get to here, where Gibson did something heroic by stiffing out small distribution because they just couldn't make enough guitars for all the small distribution.

 

No. No, and No. My local guy would not give them 500k a year for the privilege of selling 300 Epiphones that he did not want. MARS took that on gladly, and to their last day you were tripping over every conceivable Epiphone Les Paul there was and you know what they didn't have? Gibson Acoustics. At MARS Music, third after Sam Ash in the country.

 

My local GC has one, 1, ONE Gibson Acoustic in it. One. That's the most they've had for probably four or five years now. Modern large scale distribution is not about ((number of guitars / number of outlets) = number of guitars in store), it's all metrics, all analyzed by buyers, "we only hang what we sell" has been the mission statement of the two largest retailers for a really long time now. Your GC might have two dozen Gibsons. Mine has One(1).

 

Whatever their production numbers of acoustic guitars may be, the Gibson Acoustic is hung on the Gibson Business Model, which is great expense to buy in and a bunch of lower tier guitars that any guitar store that wants to sell Gibson Acoustics is not going to be able to move efficiently before the next buy, next year.

 

I know I know I know, Wildwood, and the other big guys online etc etc etc. Making exclusives and great deals with really proven high volume outlets has always happened and is nothing special about Gibson. Martin does it, I drive 1000 miles to buy Martins, worth every mile and every dollar.

 

rct

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like I touched a nerve there.

What would I have done with the ebony? Not purchased it, the short term rewards were not worth the risks.

I said their major retailer (that would be Guitar Center) has been teetering on the verge of bankruptcy forever, not Gibson.

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that Martin makes 5X the number of guitars when the guide at Martin said Gibson had eclipsed them in sales figures.

The MIM Martins I've tried have been pretty cruddy but I guess they're popular and help keep the brand solvent. I wouldn't buy one.

The neon acoustics from Gibson remind me of that upside down Flying V they did a few years back or the Holy Explorer or the latest Custom Shop creations.

I'd imagine someone will buy them but it won't be me.

For someone who can't afford the Gibson Hummingbird the sales person can offer a similar looking Epiphone model. I never said, nor meant to imply, that they were the equivalent in sound quality.

My local Guiar Center had a couple of Gibson acoustics last time I went in, I think it was a J-15, a J-35 and something else. Maybe they had dead strings from the locals banging on them after lunch at KFC or something but they were not very impressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why? The government should have taken it over and made it a state run company.

 

Sorry Larry but in my opinion the state couldn't (and shouldn't) run anything at all except defence of the realm in the broadest sense.

 

You are right about Landrover /Jaguar should be British rather than Indian but that seems to me more a complete failure of British and banking business acumen that it isn't.

 

I'd sooner not start on "bankers" as that word is so easily turned into what it should be by one change of letter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prices are really strange in Gibson's electric guitars.

I think, there are two problems that Gibson could not resolve for electric guitar so far since the advent of the computer era in recording and guitar playing. These are 1. Discrepancy with a computer for the guitar, accordingly, with home studio computer-based. As you know, the traditional guitar combo amplifiers and cabinets with microphones are not comfortable at home. 2. With usual electric guitar, even if it is one of the best and expensive, a musician still has to take a few guitars of different models including acoustic one, what is also uncomfortable in the live performances and recordings. And Gibson, of course, makes a mistake producing many unnecessary guitars models while the interests of the new generation of guitarists are completely different.

 

Now is an era of smartphones, iPhones…, wherein in one mobile phone there are also video and photos :unsure: and even the Internet.I.e. it would be nice to have the necessary minimum, one, maybe two, in extreme cases, three electric guitars, which would do a lot including a nice record at home without using the traditional guitar equipment (IMHO).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mmmmmm..... not quite the full facts and absolutely nowhere near the full story. What really happened can't be said on this forum, but it is public information. The only people threatened with jail were... uh... the guy who was caught and his superiors, if you can guess who that might be. If you have an MBA, you have all the tools you need to find the truth. It's not for me to argue the facts.

Fact re. the Fish & Wildlife Raid - No charges were filed. What we call the proverbial 'bottom line'. Neither of us were there, so we can only rely on second hand reports of what happened during the raid. I trust the reports that say employees were threatened with arrest, you don't. No harm, no fowl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fact re. the Fish & Wildlife Raid - No charges were filed. What we call the proverbial 'bottom line'. Neither of us were there, so we can only rely on second hand reports of what happened during the raid. I trust the reports that say employees were threatened with arrest, you don't. No harm, no fowl.

 

If you try that thinking on some smart aleck kids in your MBA class they'd eat you for lunch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A few random thoughts which probably won't come to much, but for the sake of sharing experiences, here goes - Prior to Norlin and even briefly during, Gibson was very friendly with small dealers and customers alike. There was walk-in customer service available at the factory, and small shops could order instruments without being required to maintain a huge inventory. Granted, times have changed and in some cases it might be for the better. In the early 1990's, the push to eliminate small dealerships became very aggressive and sales reps were almost gleeful about it. I speak from experience, as I was at that time associated with a small shop that got the 'bad news' early on. Since then, Gibson has produced some very fine instruments that are well worth owning, but to some of us old timers it feels like a completely different and not necessarily positive situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is from the "it's MY ox that's getting gored" file.

 

In 1985 I started a small guitar shop. Maybe 25-30 guitars in stock, all either used or inexpensive new. I sold Kent, Cort, Phantom, etc. I also did repairs. One of the first repairs that came through the door was a horribly butchered and refinished 1959 J-45. I had the Gibson parts catalog and price list in a 3 ring binder (still have it) and was able to order a new pickguard, a belly up bridge, a headstock logo too. Given the age of the guitar, it made good sense to chat on the phone to Nashville so we were on the same page (figuratively and literally). I probably made another order or two after that. Little insignificant orders.

 

Sometime in early '86 I think, I tried to place an order and the young lady I always dealt with in the past was tight lipped and not very talkative on the phone...unlike previous chats. She informed me that the new management changed policy on selling parts to those of us with small "non-Gibson dealer" shops and they could no longer sell to me. I was miffed but shrugged it off.

 

What harm was it in selling a few parts to a bumpkin in northern Maine? I've always believed that if you take care of the nickels, the dollars will take care of themselves.

 

Not worth the company's time, I'm sure, to deal with someone like me.

 

I think I'll go buy a pack of gum at WalMart. (blatant sarcasm)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dang, is there Russian meddling in this thread? Gotta be vigilant! rolleyes.gif

 

Well… In Russia there are many fans of Gibson guitars, I am too :rolleyes: . Generally speaking, in the early 2000s it was really necessary to create a new model of electric guitar with a glance to said appearance of computers and home studios. Therefore Henry and Gibson took up electronics, as I understand, that is digital guitars, the new direction and it was logical. The only this direction was yet erroneous for guitars, at least risky (IMHO). But I think, Gibson’s problems can be solved. A new guitar model is necessary for that, as a new generation guitar, but of course not that complicated like digital guitar, besides, its sound was no better than an ordinary electric guitar, it seems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...