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jefleppard65

since ren left...

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i've noticed that the tone of the gibson acoustic has changed since ren left. the market became flooded with j-15's, j-29's and j-35's. all with different wood combinations in the neck and body materials. i find that the modern examples are more mid-forward and lack the trademark gibson thump in the lower end. just me or is it directly related to ren's departure?

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While we will probably ALL agree that Ren is the MAN....

 

My J-15 is a phenomenal guitar.

 

The World is changing and building 3K and up guitars out of endangered woods can't go on forever. The masses are being educated to hate the use of those woods, and working musicians simply can't afford them.

 

Maple and Walnut ARE tonewoods and Gibson needs guitars in BARS, on streetcorners and coffee shops or the brand will be diminished.

 

While I do love my Rosewood/Ebony J-45 dearly, I don't see how a guitar that is out of reach financially to a street musician/bar gigger can be called a "Workhorse".

 

The times, they are a changin'........

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Bwahahaha - maybe we should be trying out the new Guilds. To my ear, the standard slope shoulder guitars built on Ren's watch tended to be voiced a bit brighter than I am used to with Gibsons.

 

To me though I find the mahogany body J-35s to be possibly the least Gibsony sounding Gibsons. Then again, if nature has its way, over the years they will develop that dry snap that mahogany guitars get.

Edited by zombywoof

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"Ren" and gibson finanaces arnt acoustic guitar topics and they are getting more prevalant by the minute- no offense to anyone in particular

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"Ren" and gibson finanaces arnt acoustic guitar topics and they are getting more prevalant by the minute- no offense to anyone in particular

 

Why would a luthier not be a fit topic for a guitar forum?

Edited by zombywoof

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I agree - interesting observation re. Ren.

As far as legitimate 'acoustic guitar topics' - I think we only outlaw Religion, Politics, insulting other members and Foul Language.

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the "ren" conversation has drifted from his lutherie skills - also, finances arnt acoustic topics, you get your opinion I get mine, also, if you dont know know someone, casual use of first name seems ingenuous

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While we will probably ALL agree that Ren is the MAN....

 

My J-15 is a phenomenal guitar.

 

The World is changing and building 3K and up guitars out of endangered woods can't go on forever. The masses are being educated to hate the use of those woods, and working musicians simply can't afford them.

 

Maple and Walnut ARE tonewoods and Gibson needs guitars in BARS, on streetcorners and coffee shops or the brand will be diminished.

 

While I do love my Rosewood/Ebony J-45 dearly, I don't see how a guitar that is out of reach financially to a street musician/bar gigger can be called a "Workhorse".

 

The times, they are a changin'........

 

I would own a J-15 if it didn't have the abalone rosette. The new ones with the burst finish are even nicer, IMO.

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I own Gibson's from the Ren era and after Ren. No difference for me, I love 'em all. But my 2013 Ltd Edition guitars, the Aj and the OJ,are my absolute favorite acoustics. I think Ren was great at the time Gibson bought Flatiron and merged it into Gibson. For sure the Gibson Acoustics made a huge improvement with the team in Bozeman.

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I almost spit out my mouthful of coffee. Those 4 thing go on constantly. Insulting other members are usually small jabs and when I do it they know I am joking with them. Usually the political and religious ones get taken down quite quickly.

 

Agree.

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I must have missed all those posts where references to Ren had something to do with other than his guitar building skills. Yeah, there was some understandable gnashing of teeth and wailing about his departure from Gibson as well as speculation as to what the future held for Guild. The thing about Ren is that he was a total break with tradition. Yeah, Gibson had some amazingly talented engineers, guys such as McHugh, Loar and Allers, but the instruments were always team built. In fact beginning in 1950 employees were cross-trained to be able to handle more than one task.

 

And I find discussions of Gibson woes interesting in an historic context especially when you look at what happened with CMI in the mid-1960s and then with ECL in 1969. Change here certainly impacted the build quality, sound and feel of the guitars. But I would agree discussions of the current issues do take a turn for the worse when they are used solely to bash the guitars themselves as they now are.

Edited by zombywoof

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I almost spit out my mouthful of coffee. Those 4 thing go on constantly. Insulting other members are usually small jabs and when I do it they know I am joking with them. Usually the political and religious ones get taken down quite quickly.

 

Also agree. Most here take the jabs in the playful nature they are offered. The newer guys here will not recall it but we have had one or two folks in the past who could be downright obnoxious. But they were either given the boot or left on their own accord.

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Also agree. Most here take the jabs in the playful nature they are offered. The newer guys here will not recall it but we have had one or two folks in the past who could be downright obnoxious. But they were either given the boot or left on their own accord.

 

 

I’d give some money to have half of them back though !

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I agree - interesting observation re. Ren.

As far as legitimate 'acoustic guitar topics' - I think we only outlaw Religion, Politics, insulting other members and Foul Language.

 

Like the line in the Sammy Kershaw song "talk about everything but politics, religion, and her".

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Well, if we're talking roundshoulder thump, my Ren-era '02 J-45 Rosewood has a ton of it, but so does my '14 J-15, and '15 J-50.

 

They each have a different overall voice, especially on the high end, and that low end thump is influenced by the high characteristics - but all three can thump you out of your chair.

 

The rosewood is a little deeper in overall tone, the walnut is brighter on the top end, and the mahogany is in the middle. It's all pretty much as you'd expect, but they're all punchy, too.

 

Oh, and then throw my Terada-Japan made '64 McCartney Texan into the mix with it's adjustable saddle, for some metallic overtoned & vintage-tinged goodness.

 

It would be hard for me to pick a roundshoulder favorite out of the four, because each has a unique appeal. And of course this is why we have to own so many guitars!

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.

15, 29, 35, etc are fine examples of Gibson’s guitar products. Tone and thump judgement are always subject to personal tastes.

 

And JMO - Ren, or more formally, Mr Ferguson, as well as Gibson’s finances, or any other part of their business, are legitimate topics. Those here long enough will remember the “guitars only”, no performances push was nothing but trouble.

 

 

.

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I’d give some money to have half of them back though !

Part of the reason people leave any discussion forum is that they're treated like apostates for daring to stray from the accepted ideology.There is (in my opinion) a group here who tend to drive the agenda and denigrate any divergent viewpoint.Some of us in the "newbie" camp might appreciate less condescension.

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Part of the reason people leave any discussion forum is that they're treated like apostates for daring to stray from the accepted ideology.There is (in my opinion) a group here who tend to drive the agenda and denigrate any divergent viewpoint.Some of us in the "newbie" camp might appreciate less condescension.

 

The statement you replied to what simply stating that some of the members referred to caused some interesting topics of discussion

 

I don’t see condescension in any form

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Question.

And please don’t hurt me... wasn’t REN the man whose biggest contributions were the newer Guitar center style models... songwriter etc? Not the traditional models that 90% of the forum here is all about?

Why would Ren have anything to do with the sound of a J200 or 45, whether pre Ren, during, or post?

Ps I am not denigrating Ren. I have seen interviews with him, and he seems a knowledgeable, kind, easy going gent.

 

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Question.

And please don’t hurt me... wasn’t REN the man whose biggest contributions were the newer Guitar center style models... songwriter etc? Not the traditional models that 90% of the forum here is all about?

Why would Ren have anything to do with the sound of a J200 or 45, whether pre Ren, during, or post?

Ps I am not denigrating Ren. I have seen interviews with him, and he seems a knowledgeable, kind, easy going gent.

 

 

That's kind of a point I was making as well.

 

And to the OP's mention of Gibson "flooding the market" with J-15's. I was addressing the fact that Gibson MUST build affordable guitars with sustainable woods AS WELL as their classics, or working musicians (and tree huggers) will not use them. And to my knowledge the J-15 was post Ren.

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Condescention? We're all guitar snobs at various stages of development😂 Actually, I like the notion of 'entry level' Gibson acoustics getting attention. Today's J-15 is, perhaps, tomorrow's coveted LG-2 or LG-3.

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Actually, I like the notion of 'entry level' Gibson acoustics getting attention. Today's J-15 is, perhaps, tomorrow's coveted LG-2 or LG-3.

 

 

We have a winner!

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