natstrat79 Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 A question that comes to mind. Weren't the guitars referenced in this thread introduced not to long after Mr. Ferguson's departure? The earliest mention I see to his joining Guild was 2014 and retirement from Gibson announced in 2012. I would think there would have been some sort of plan for the acoustic divisions transition post Ren Ferguson. The J-35 was released in 2013 if I remember correctly. Would he have had some involvement in the company during the design stages of these guitars given the timing of his departure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Question. And please don’t hurt me... wasn’t REN the man whose biggest contributions were the newer Guitar center style models... songwriter etc? Although non-traditional designs were always part of Bozeman's landscape (the L-130 from the early 2000s for example), my take is that Ren very much wanted to build them like they used to, but still take advantage of the best in modern techniques. In interviews, he has noted up & down periods in the '90s, but in 1999, two years before Gibson's giant bed-in with GC & MF, he revamped the lineup to focus heavily on accurate reissues of traditional models. During the following few years as the J-200, J-185, J-45 and others would be tested, reviewers typically stated that instruments coming out of Montana now rivaled the best Gibson had ever made. But in 2001, production had to be ramped up to feed the GC-MF beast. Gibson's dealer network was shredded to pieces, and the big-box/online market became Gibson's life-line. One would have to imagine that this continued to dominate marketing decisions at Gibson until Ren's departure. The more affordable J-35, LG2-AE, J-15, and HP series, were released after Ren had left Gibson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Although non-traditional designs were always part of Bozeman's landscape (the L-130 from the early 2000s for example), my take is that Ren very much wanted to build them like they used to, but still take advantage of the best in modern techniques. In interviews, he has noted up & down periods in the '90s, but in 1999, two years before Gibson's giant bed-in with GC & MF, he revamped the lineup to focus heavily on accurate reissues of traditional models. During the following few years as the J-200, J-185, J-45 and others would be tested, reviewers typically stated that instruments coming out of Montana now rivaled the best Gibson had ever made. But in 2001, production had to be ramped up to feed the GC-MF beast. Gibson's dealer network was shredded to pieces, and the big-box/online market became Gibson's life-line. One would have to imagine that this continued to dominate marketing decisions at Gibson until Ren's departure. The more affordable J-35, LG2-AE, J-15, and HP series, were released after Ren had left Gibson. By the sound of that, you should look for a 1999-2000 guitar. I have Bozeman-built guitars from 2006 and 2010. They are beautifully built, and great guitars. As far as I'm concerned, Ren was the best thing that happened to Gibson Acoustic--other than Henry saving the whole company from the trash heap--in the last 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 When I was in Bozeman in 2007 we went around the room introducing ourselves and me, being a bit of a smart aleck, chose to publicly thank Ren and Gibson for doing such a wonderful job on a certain J200 on June something or other 1989, which is when my sunburst one was born. I meant it in good humor. I'm not sure Ren took it that way because he muttered something to the effect, "What about all the other guitars we've made since?" Immediately I was like, oh s***, I've been here five minutes and Ren hates me. Nice going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 you get your opinion I get mine, also, if you dont know know someone, casual use of first name seems ingenuous ...and choosing to state that to a group of adults seems sanctimonious (IMO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 you just out-sanctimonious-ed me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 also, if you dont know know someone, casual use of first name seems ingenuous Actually, in today’s culture, it is a very good complement to a person, culturally, if a person, who isn’t personally known, to have risen to the status of being referred to only by their first name and people to know who they are. ie: Ringo Celine Elvis Kelly & Ryan (just kidding) Duane Eric Bob Barbra Oprah John Paul George Jen Anjolina Jimi I could go on and will. In our circle: Ren Henry Just my take. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I give Ren credit for re-establishing fine workmanship and getting iconic Gibson acoustics back to being in-line with their Kalamazoo heritage, though made in Montana. And, improving upon, and bucking the trend by also proving new models can co-exist with them by blending the heritage with new ideas (ie. The Songwriter) and that there is a market for the iconic and the new. And, to Henry for initially hiring him and then staying out of his way. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 By the sound of that, you should look for a 1999-2000 guitar. Nick, that's not the point I'm attempting to make at all. I'm responding to Sal's initial question with my take on a significant era encompassing one of Ren's many contributions, which was highly focused on the return of exquisite traditional models (as opposed to his thought about the Songwriter & other new designs). And yes indeed, construction of fine acoustic instruments in Bozeman continued after the big box/online shift, and continues to this day - but I also would suggest that the higher production numbers required most likely made Ren's efforts to produce a consistently stellar product more challenging. While excellent instruments were still leaving the facility, higher production numbers would almost invariably mean that more mediocre examples would be put into circulation as well. In looking at Ren's overall contributions, I would also add that to my knowledge, every single Bozeman guitar leaving the factory to this day, has been built on a shop floor that he established. In my mind, it's been a remarkable run of consistency, with a few speed-bumps along the way. And post-Ren production is still impacted by what Ren put together. As my 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 Gibson acoustics enjoyably demonstrate, on a continuing basis, that facility is still capable of building excellent quality guitars. Edit: A reminder to now give Ren credit as well for his efforts in putting together the current Guild facility in California, using many of the same techniques he established in Bozeman. His run with Guild was rather short, but the employees he trained continue to move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 you just out-sanctimonious-ed me ! you're welcome j. (Sorry, I mean Mr i) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 i've noticed that the tone of the gibson acoustic has changed since ren left. the market became flooded with j-15's, j-29's and j-35's. all with different wood combinations in the neck and body materials. i find that the modern examples are more mid-forward and lack the trademark gibson thump in the lower end. just me or is it directly related to ren's departure? I have observed no such thing and have neither seen nor heard any evidence whatsoever, no matter how little, that would support your broad claim in any way. I, however, do share your admiration for Ren Ferguson's ability and work as a luthier and tinkerer at Gibson, which is what I believe is really at the bottom of your post. But it's important to put Mr. Ferguson's work at Gibson in perspective: in the main he devised techniques and machines that would help automatize complicated manufacturing processes that would otherwise require skilled luthier work and a lot of time and expense to achieve. This way a higher quality standard could be introduced across the board of instruments, from the bottom to the top-end models, while ramping up production efficiency and output. This way not only the guitar builds personally supervised, and tagged as such, by Mr. Ferguson himself would satisfy the master luthier but every other Gibson acoustic as well. I see no evidence or reason that Gibson strayed away from those principles or techniques introduced by Mr. Ferguson. If anything, Gibson acoustics produced in more recent memory, from Ren's time forward, are probably the best instruments we have ever had from a build standpoint and not taking the wood debacle into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabarone Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 So long as Stimpy's still on board I think we'll be okay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Where is Ren Now? Anyway, a little story......... There is a street here near the city that is a madhouse on any day - cars, trams down the middle of the road, people everywhere and then on a Saturday morning, there is a huge crowd shopping at the market. Phew. Avoid this whole area at all costs! Now, there was a little guitar shop that I would look in the window of - I had only been inside a few times over the many years they were open. Anyway, around 2007 or 8 (not sure of the date really), I went in there, on a Saturday afternoon no less (cafe crowds as well) and played a number of Gibson acoustics. All nice, but the one that took my breath away a bit was the Gibson Blues King L-00. I kept playing it, loved the sound and feel and the salesguy was getting antsy over near his counter. I surprised him by telling him I would take it! I had owned Les Pauls but never a Gibson acoustic, so with great pride I walked it past the cafe society coolcats lining the street with my Blues King in the yellow gig bag.... Now, I got to say I was very, very pleased with the guitar and tortured it with all kinds of blues. Months later, I looked up some of its details on the internet and found nothing but disparaging comments from various experts on some silly thing called the Gibson Acoustic Forum. The guitar was some kind of sacrilege made out of Bubinga and the wrong scale length or something. Oh dear, not my Blues King? I have to say the comments put me off a bit. Some of those people on the forum are still around, so am I and I got to tell you the Gibson Blues King L-00 is more fabulous and toneful today than when I bought it. Thanks Ren! (His idea to make the L-00 out of Bubinga). So here is a short and sweet raggy blues on the Gibson Blues King L-00, hot off the recorder: https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/bubingak7c BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I have observed no such thing and have neither seen nor heard any evidence whatsoever, no matter how little, that would support your broad claim in any way. I, however, do share your admiration for Ren Ferguson's ability and work as a luthier and tinkerer at Gibson, which is what I believe is really at the bottom of your post. But it's important to put Mr. Ferguson's work at Gibson in perspective: in the main he devised techniques and machines that would help automatize complicated manufacturing processes that would otherwise require skilled luthier work and a lot of time and expense to achieve. This way a higher quality standard could be introduced across the board of instruments, from the bottom to the top-end models, while ramping up production efficiency and output. This way not only the guitar builds personally supervised, and tagged as such, by Mr. Ferguson himself would satisfy the master luthier but every other Gibson acoustic as well. I see no evidence or reason that Gibson strayed away from those principles or techniques introduced by Mr. Ferguson. If anything, Gibson acoustics produced in more recent memory, from Ren's time forward, are probably the best instruments we have ever had from a build standpoint and not taking the wood debacle into account. Perfectly put! I recently played a stellar 2016 hummingbird standard. JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Where is Ren Now? Anyway, a little story......... There is a street here near the city that is a madhouse on any day - cars, trams down the middle of the road, people everywhere and then on a Saturday morning, there is a huge crowd shopping at the market. Phew. Avoid this whole area at all costs! Now, there was a little guitar shop that I would look in the window of - I had only been inside a few times over the many years they were open. Anyway, around 2007 or 8 (not sure of the date really), I went in there, on a Saturday afternoon no less (cafe crowds as well) and played a number of Gibson acoustics. All nice, but the one that took my breath away a bit was the Gibson Blues King L-00. I kept playing it, loved the sound and feel and the salesguy was getting antsy over near his counter. I surprised him by telling him I would take it! I had owned Les Pauls but never a Gibson acoustic, so with great pride I walked it past the cafe society coolcats lining the street with my Blues King in the yellow gig bag.... Now, I got to say I was very, very pleased with the guitar and tortured it with all kinds of blues. Months later, I looked up some of its details on the internet and found nothing but disparaging comments from various experts on some silly thing called the Gibson Acoustic Forum. The guitar was some kind of sacrilege made out of Bubinga and the wrong scale length or something. Oh dear, not my Blues King? I have to say the comments put me off a bit. Some of those people on the forum are still around, so am I and I got to tell you the Gibson Blues King L-00 is more fabulous and toneful today than when I bought it. Thanks Ren! (His idea to make the L-00 out of Bubinga). So here is a short and sweet raggy blues on the Gibson Blues King L-00, hot off the recorder: https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/bubingak7c BluesKing777. Good example of how forums are a curse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Good example of how forums are a curse Yep. If your ears and hands and wallet like it.....buy it. But, I can only say I have played perhaps 2 or 3 acoustic guitars I just didn’t like at all - one is a friend’s thing called a Vantage dread....nope, he likes it.....two was this huge fat Taylor blunderbuss....three was an old bass player’s Maton acoustic......shocker that has been restored and they had an offer from Maton to buy for their museum...Ha! Who knew? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J45fan Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Where is Ren Now? Anyway, a little story......... There is a street here near the city that is a madhouse on any day - cars, trams down the middle of the road, people everywhere and then on a Saturday morning, there is a huge crowd shopping at the market. Phew. Avoid this whole area at all costs! Now, there was a little guitar shop that I would look in the window of - I had only been inside a few times over the many years they were open. Anyway, around 2007 or 8 (not sure of the date really), I went in there, on a Saturday afternoon no less (cafe crowds as well) and played a number of Gibson acoustics. All nice, but the one that took my breath away a bit was the Gibson Blues King L-00. I kept playing it, loved the sound and feel and the salesguy was getting antsy over near his counter. I surprised him by telling him I would take it! I had owned Les Pauls but never a Gibson acoustic, so with great pride I walked it past the cafe society coolcats lining the street with my Blues King in the yellow gig bag.... Now, I got to say I was very, very pleased with the guitar and tortured it with all kinds of blues. Months later, I looked up some of its details on the internet and found nothing but disparaging comments from various experts on some silly thing called the Gibson Acoustic Forum. The guitar was some kind of sacrilege made out of Bubinga and the wrong scale length or something. Oh dear, not my Blues King? I have to say the comments put me off a bit. Some of those people on the forum are still around, so am I and I got to tell you the Gibson Blues King L-00 is more fabulous and toneful today than when I bought it. Thanks Ren! (His idea to make the L-00 out of Bubinga). So here is a short and sweet raggy blues on the Gibson Blues King L-00, hot off the recorder: BluesKing777. Funny story about your Blues King L-00. I had a similar experience with my 1992 Nick Lucas. I bought it in early 1993 at Gryphon, it came from winter NAMM. This Nick was hanging on the wall and I liked the look, never heard about the Nick Lucas Special, but the looks of it made me take it off the wall and pickin' it. It was love at first sight, bought it and it's the guitar I own the longest. After I bought it, I searched to find out more about the NL Special. It was my first Gibson acoustic and through my search on the net and some Gibson "experts" I found out mine has a "flaw". The NL Special supposed to have a scale of 24.9", Ren Ferguson decided to make mine long scale (25.4" )!! Many "experts" told me it's bad that Gibson made it with long scale. The funny thing is whoever plays it loves the tone of it ;) A couple a years ago I bought a 1933 L-1 from a well known vintage dealer. We had a chat about old and new Gibson's, I told him about my old NL and having the wrong scale, but it's my favorite little Gibson. He replied " yep I know about them, Ren had the right idea to make it long scale. They sound fabulous." I played quite a few NL's since I bought mine, none was better sounding than this "wrong" scale NL Special from '92. Ren did it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 And so it goes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 And so it goes..... Ha! Now the bad news with my Blues King L-00....... The Baggs Element pickup that came with the guitar free, gratis, for nothing... and that's about what it is worth. I know, I know, they give us some free electricity to get us going, but...for one, I can't stand the sound of it direct, just horrible...and mine has the added bonus of not being installed properly to begin with and has the Low E louder than everything else....which can be fixed, but it is usually because the bottom of the saddle is not level. So my last guitar buy was one of the cheapest - my locally built Maton SRS808, and really, it is probably not a lot different than a Blues King.....00 size, similar neck BUT..a 1/4 of the price and ....the BEST pickup I have ever played! (Maton AP5-Pro Rules!) Just plug the guitar direct to any amp or PA and....................away we go.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (We would rip the Element out of the BK and put in a Maton AP5-Pro system any day, but it needs a hole in the guitar top and side! Oh OH. Not happening...) BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Are you on commission for matons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Are you on commission for matons? Yeah, a kick in the teeth for smiling so much! Just credit goes where credit is due. The basic Gibson pickup options need upgrading. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Yeah, a kick in the teeth for smiling so much! Just credit goes where credit is due. The basic Gibson pickup options need upgrading. BluesKing777. Here is a couple of very short demos of what I said... 1. Gibson Blues King L-00 through standard issue Baggs Element straight to my A&H mixer, which is very, very kind to Piezos with a guitar channel.... 2. Maton SRS808 through standard pickup system Maton AP5-Pro direct to A&H mixer. 3. Blues King L-00 through Tonedexter and direct to mixer. ( extra $600 here plus had to use my $800 Neumann mic to make the Tone dexter image... <_< https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/bktest2-td77 And Gibson Blues King L-00 Neumann mic only... https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/bubingak7c BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 My apologies for not thinking through Ren's contribution to automation and modern techniques... Truly... I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I think this video gives a good idea that the J 35 (don't know about the 29 or 15) is not an "after thought" : JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I think this video gives a good idea that the J 35 (don't know about the 29 or 15) is not an "after thought" : JC That video has been posted here before , it’s as good an advert for a j35 as there is But that guy could make an encore guitar sound good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.