Henry J.. Its the retailers fault

[Rabs]

http://www.musicinstrumentnews.co.uk/2018/02/26/gibson-boss-slams-retailers-troubles-mount/

Gibson Brands boss Henry Juszkiewicz has slammed MI retailers in an outspoken interview with US magazine Billboard.

 

As previously reported in MIN, Gibson Brands faces a crisis with debt repayments totalling as much as $375 million due within months. With last week’s downrating by Standard and Poor’s, a CFO lasting less than a year and predictions of bankruptcy openly being discussed in the media, Juszkiewicz used the interview to criticise retailers for what he sees as a failure to move with the times.

 

‘”All of the retailers are fearful as can be; they’re all afraid of e-commerce, with Amazon just becoming the second largest employer in the US, and the brick and mortar guys are just panicking. They see the trend, and that trend isn’t taking them to a good place, and they’re all wondering if there will be a world for brick and mortar stores for much longer. It’s a turbulent world to be a retailer, and many of our retail partners are facing that same issue.”‘

 

Juszkiewicz went on to add that the business had become too focused on guitar ‘purists’ and no longer served broader public, that guitar stores were unwelcoming, particularly to female customers, and that catering for guitar ‘purists’ made them uncongenial for the general public.

 

‘”I like to say, “You know where the good music stores are? Look in a city’s pornography district.” Sure enough, that’s where [they] are. Well, parents with kids don’t like to go into those areas to shop. Musicians don’t have a problem going into those areas – there are usually a lot of hip clubs around there, too – but this is how the guitar business took a hard left, and left behind a lot of consumers. We’ve lost a lot of consumers. Women, by and large, aren’t comfortable going to guitar stores. If you look around, you’ll see a few, but if they are there chances are they’re already musicians. You’re not going to mom and dad; you’re only preaching to the converted.”

 

“[The industry is] stuck in a time warp, and the ‘purists’ have a very loud voice on the online forums. If you are a kid today, you have an iPad by the age of two, and if you’re not offering new technology you’re old. Kids today may think some music from the 50s is kind of cool here and there, but what other industry do you know that hasn’t changed since the 50s? Those guitars from the 50s are what the purists want, but we have to have something new and exciting. Imagine if the camera had never changed. Innovation is a part of every business to some degree, but [the guitar industry] hates it. The kids demand it, and if you don’t have it, they walk.”‘

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I've read various iterations of these comments now. It makes no sense to me. He seems to be saying it's a fear of online retailers within the bricks and mortar retailers.

 

Firstly, fear of negative trends in performance doesn't equal negative trends. I think most people still want to go to a shop for a musical instrument and I think the bricks and mortar businesses will survive as a result. Perhaps some consolidation of smaller shops into larger.

 

Most of Gibson's bricks and mortar partners are also online.

 

How does any of this impact Gibson. Whether dealers sell online or face to face makes no odds to Gibson, surely?

[Rabs]

I've read various iterations of these comments now. It makes no sense to me. He seems to be saying it's a fear of online retailers within the bricks and mortar retailers.

 

Firstly, fear of negative trends in performance doesn't equal negative trends. I think most people still want to go to a shop for a musical instrument and I think the bricks and mortar businesses will survive as a result. Perhaps some consolidation of smaller shops into larger.

 

Most of Gibson's bricks and mortar partners are also online.

 

How does any of this impact Gibson. Whether dealers sell online or face to face makes no odds to Gibson, surely?

Its like he wants to see Gibsons being played by trendy people sipping posh coffee on a sofa with free wi/fi... Henry this is the guitar market not an over glorified coffee shop chain.

 

He just has it all wrong in his head. He wants it to be a lifestyle choice like a guitar is the most important thing in peoples life or something.

[MichaelT]

Not that I'm a business expert but I'm seeing less Gibsons in brick and mortar stores because it's SO expensive for them to buy in and actually SELL Gibson guitars. Smaller stores can't afford to carry Gibson guitars, unless they get some used ones in.

 

I would LOVE to go into a couple of smaller stores here that have a more intimate setting than Guitar Center. I go to Guitar Center occasionally to play Gibsons because they're the closest around here that carry new Gibsons. And, when I go there, I am contending with other people playing guitars (mostly poorly) through amps much louder than they should, would be drummers banging on drums like a chimpanzee God only knows what the wannabe bass players are doing.

 

I'd love my local store to have them so I can support local. They've priced themselves out of that range and only the huge megastores can afford to carry them. My local store would love to sell Gibson and Fender but it's expensive to get onboarded with both.

[charlie brown]

Well, ONE problem with Gibson, and "Brick & Mortar" stores, is Gibson's insistence on the small, (often) Family owned,

businesses having to stock more instruments, than their locations and customer base would allow for quick turnover.

And, that they must stock a certain dollar amount of product, that the store owners KNOW "won't sell," in their market.

IF Gibson would listen, to their dealers, and cater more to what really sells, in those markets, things might improve,

overall. Any Gibson dealer could (of course) "special order" an instrument, for a person that has a special need, or

request. But why force small dealers, especially, to stock models that simply don't/won't sell, in their particular

market(s)?

 

CB

[LarryUK]

Henry's comments are stupid. when you buy an Apple product, you can guarantee that all of them work the same. A guitar isn't the same. Any stringed instrument is almost a living thing. They're all different even though built the same. So really should be bought in a store not online. Henry is wrong. Just like the robot to the Star Trek V he's just released. The thing with corporate people is they think the worker (luthier in this case) is just an operative. Doing a job that anyone can do. They're wrong. Even the man that works on the door at a hotel can be talented at his job. I'm a decorator by trade. I can just walk into a room and see if I'll have problems or tell the fault with a wallpaper. But I'm classed as a manual worker and a teacher is rated higher than me. My point is. The worker is being crushed so the corporate boss can make more millions for his shareholders. To Henry, his workers are nothing and so are the shop owners. I hope he gets sacked or voted out, however it works. I hate that sort of person.

[charlie brown]

He's just pissed, that his "Tech" guitars don't sell! And, his monstrous EGO won't allow him take responsibility!

So, he offloads those failings onto his workers, management, and dealers...even the customers. We're to blame for

HIS bad judgement??! LOL "Same old, same old!" Maybe us more conservative "purist" model lovers, need

to boycott any more Gibson purchases, since he thinks we're "old hat," and out of touch, therefore not worthy of his

"new age directions?"

 

By playing this so called "blame game," he's doing the exact opposite, of what he should be doing. He should cater to

his dealers, inspire his workers, and cherish his customers, regardless of what "models" they prefer. If your customer

base, loves and predominately buys the "tried and true" Gibson models, over the "new age," stuff. Then cater to them,

more. Offering new model directions, is OK, and they often don't sell well, right away. But, don't lambast your good,

and loyal customers, for their personal "purist" preferences. Just make what they will buy, and make those guitars as

good as they can possibly be, instead of what we've seen, all too often, with shoddy QC, and poor performance. Up the

quality, and QC to positively reflect what the price structure (should) indicate. And, stop blaming other's! It's either

that, or shut the doors, on Gibson USA, entirely, and make only uber expensive "Custom Shop" versions, for the trendy,

and overly well healed (AKA "More money than sense") crowd. End of editorial Rant!

 

CB

[Lord Summerisle]

A guy whose company sells $3000+ 335s and Les Pauls is complaining that the musical instrument retail industry is intimidating to many customers?

 

I mentioned this earlier at the Epiphone Forum. Fender did a much better job of selling guitars across a wide price range. They're not afraid to put a Fender logo on the headstock of a Mexican made Fender. Sure, they still have Squier, but Squier has the very lowest priced guitars, plus quirky stuff like the (low price) Vintage Modified series. Gibson is apparently afraid to put its name on the headstock of a non-US manufactured Les Paul. Fender realized that people want to buy a Fender, so they made them available at all price points.

 

Sure, this will upset the purists, but Henry has apparently acknowledged that catering to the purists is a big part of his headache. Gibson isn't fully maximizing the use that can be of its name.

 

Turn the Epiphone name into a niche brand for classic Epiphone models like the Casino, and/or off-beat stuff.

 

Stick the Gibson name on everything else - especially core models like Les Pauls and SGs - and use existing quality control (and develop it further) to maintain proper QC across the range, proportionate to price point.

 

The guy leaving the shop with his Mexican Telecaster with a big smile on his face doesn't think that he's bought a "Fender knock off." He's bought a Fender, and he's happy. Gibson might do well to learn from that.

[merciful-evans]

Henry:

but what other industry do you know that hasn’t changed since the 50s? Those guitars from the 50s are what the purists want, but we have to have something new and exciting. Imagine if the camera had never changed. Innovation is a part of every business to some degree, but [the guitar industry] hates it.

 

Where is my tin hat? I think this is true :mellow:

[pippy]

I just replayed the interview with Lee Anderton to make sure I get the numbers correct.

10 years ago Anderton's were turning over $5m in-store and $1m on-line. Last year both sales-figures had risen - not just on-line - to $8m and $40m respectively.

For the time being it seems that if properly done web-sales can help improve in-store 'bricks-and-mortar' sales rather than merely replacing them.

 

Pip.

[charlie brown]

To merciful-evan's point:

 

Well, innovation is one thing. But, to require and/or not give a choice to your customers, is not innovative, it's fascist!

Take the Gibson models of just a few years ago, where you first were actually given the choice of traditional or robot tuners.

The next year or so, robot tuners were "standard" and you had no choice! Then, after we ranted and raved about that problem,

and, more importantly to Gibson, we didn't BUY their robot or "tech" guitars, they went back (kinda) to given either option.

All the while raising the price point, at each turn. Epiphone, has improved, steadily, since the mid-2000's and continues to

improve their products, while remaining very reasonable/affordable, during that process. Gibson, on the other hand, raises

the prices, at Henry's "whims," 10% or more, as if to penalize the customer base, for Gibson having to improve quality and/or

quality control. You want it better, you pay more! What's odd, is that Gibson owns Epiphone, but (apparently) it's OK, for

Epi to make good changes-improvements, without overpricing, in the process?! Pfffff! Good for Epiphone!!

 

 

Sure, we (Americans) prefer our Gibson's "made in USA!" But, if the quality is there, or even better, we don't seem to have much

trouble buying "Foreign," either. Quality to price ratio, is key...IMHO. Epi, has that in spades, compared to where Gibson is

going, these days. Even Martin is making decent, affordable guitars, in Mexico, nowadays. PRS, has a Asian built line, as well,

and they are NOT "junk!" So...???

 

Personally, I think both Gibson and Fender make too many variations, of too many models. Get back to the basic models, plus any

"New" models you want to "try out," and let the customer "mod" their own guitars, to their particular preferences (like we all did,

in the '50's, '60's, even '70's and even the '80's), instead of trying to "Chrystal Ball" every possible scenario, some customer

MIGHT want. But, that's just Me! A so called "Luddite," and dreaded "Purist!"

 

 

CB

[Mr. Gibson]

Never bought a guitar or much of anything else in brick and mortar stores,prices are higher,sales tax,and driving 60-100 miles to get there. Why would I want to spend more? Plus most of the people there really don't know anymore than I do about guitars. Some will say" well you get to try it out before you buy" A.they never have what I want. B. If something is wrong you don't catch it, I have to drive 60-100 miles to take it back,and they look at you like a deer in the headlights. I'll stay with musicians friend, now for most of you guys and gals you probably have access to many stores,I don't. So I'll do my buying online. It is really my only option in a North Dakota prairie town.

[charlie brown]

Well, not ALL "Brick & Mortar" stores are higher, than the Big Box, or Warehouse stores. My dealer, for well over 30

years, is a family owned "Brick & Mortar" store, and it's consistently less expensive, than any of the Warehouse/on line,

stores, even with sales tax. Especially, on Gibson/Epiphone products! So, it's more a case by case basis, regarding

Brick & Mortar, vs. On-line or Warehouse type stores. My dealer also does a brisk on-line business, as well. So, if

the purchase is shipped out of state, there's no sales tax.

 

 

CB

[merciful-evans]

To merciful-evan's point:

Personally, I think both Gibson and Fender make too many variations, of too many models. Get back to the basic models, plus any

"New" models you want to "try out," and let the customer "mod" their own guitars, to their particular preferences (like we all did,

in the '50's, '60's, even '70's and even the '80's), instead of trying to "Chrystal Ball" every possible scenario, some customer

MIGHT want.

 

CB

 

Yes I cant disagree with that. Anybody 'new' looking to buy a Les Paul or Strat today must be bewildered beyond dread.

 

Mods: Its still easy to mod guitars backwards as well. I distrusted the robots too, but instead of changing them, I gave them a chance first. So far, they've done a good job.

 

To merciful-evan's point:

But, that's just Me! A so called "Luddite," and dreaded "Purist!"

CB

 

You are the majority CB, and I accept that. But I have been shocked at the level of resistance to change, right here on this forum. I can only think it must be because the majority here love Gibsons and their history; many obsessively.

 

Whereas I only 'like' them'.

 

 

 

As for price rises, PRS are doing that relentlessly too. The SE model I bought in 2015 has risen in price by 50% in 2.5 years. And their 'Private Stock' models are @ sci-fi prices.

 

 

 

Evidently Henry has an eye on the future. That's only sensible, because us old g1ts will all be gone before too much longer.

[charlie brown]

Yes I cant disagree with that. Anybody 'new' looking to buy a Les Paul or Strat today must be bewildered beyond dread.

 

Mods: Its still easy to mod guitars backwards as well. I distrusted the robots too, but instead of changing them, I gave them a chance first. So far, they've done a good job.

 

 

 

You are the majority CB, and I accept that. But I have been shocked at the level of resistance to change, right here on this forum. I can only think it must be because the majority here love Gibsons and their history; many obsessively.

 

Whereas I only 'like' them'.

 

 

 

As for price rises, PRS are doing that relentlessly too. The SE model I bought in 2015 has risen in price by 50% in 2.5 years. And their 'Private Stock' models are @ sci-fi prices.

 

 

 

Evidently Henry has an eye on the future. That's only sensible, because us old g1ts will all be gone before too much longer.

 

I (often) wonder, if some of the price increases (beyond all reason) are merely Greed, or due to some other factor(s) we're

blissfully unaware of. But, Gibson (and you say PRS) seem to be constantly going overboard, way beyond normal "inflation,"

considerations. Who knows??! All I know, is that they've (both) priced themselves out of any serious considerations, for me,

beyond admiring them, in a store...but NOT walking out with one, anymore! It's OK...I have (too) many guitars, already!

 

 

CB

[zigzag]

Henry J doesn't want to take responsibility for his failures. If he knew his market and the preferences of his demographics he might be more successful. I truly hope that those in a position to make the necessary changes at Gibson during the inevitable bankruptcy restructuring can replace Henry with someone with the commitment, brains, and creativity to make Gibson profitable and appealing to buyers and dealers. I personally believe that Gibson should sell off everything, cut it to the bone, start over, and sell direct to consumer with their historically proven winners. Give people a 60-day return policy, no questions asked.

[pippy]

Henry:

 

"...but what other industry do you know that hasn't changed since the 50s? Those guitars from the 50s are what the purists want, but we have to have something new and exciting. Imagine if the camera had never changed. Innovation is a part of every business to some degree, but [the guitar industry] hates it..."

 

Where is my tin hat? I think this is true :mellow:

Whilst Henry clearly is making a valid point there is also a difference between guitars and cameras where the concept of 'innovation' is concerned and 'useful technology' - for want of a better expression - might be at the heart of this difference and, in any case, the changes aren't quite as profound as might be imagined. Sure, almost everyone nowadays has a mobile 'phone capable of great results and almost no-one shoots on film but 99% of pro snappers still use a digital version of an SLR - (DSLR) - and the SLR concept in commercially produced 35mm cameras dates back 70 years. Materials have changed, technology has transformed the innards and method of 'image-capture' yet the SLR as a concept of itself is almost completely unchanged.

 

Guitars have reached a point which happens in the life of most inventions whereby little can be done to improve the model further. When was the last time there was a meaningful improvement in the design of either the Classical or Spanish guitars? The steel-strung variation got stronger bracing, a slightly larger body and that was about it. Once the guitar split further and became 'electric' the basic formula was established in fairly rapid order. By the mid '50s what more was there to improve?

Pianos? Much the same. From the various early klavichords, harpsichords, klaviers and so on the design and layout of the modern day Grand was pretty much finalised by the 1850's.

Violins? Stardivari might have made his best stuff in the 1680-1700s but these, themselves, were only slightly different from instruments made 150 years prior to that! How much better can any modern change make to the performance of a violin?

 

IMO Henry's mistake is to consider high-quality guitar-making (and instrument making in general) as an industry which needs incessant technological revolution and change.

Because it simply isn't.

 

Pip.

[Pin]

IMO Henry's mistake is to consider high-quality guitar-making (and instrument making in general) as an industry which needs incessant technological revolution and change.

Because it simply isn't.

 

Pip.

 

I do hope Henry reads that comment because I have never witnessed a more apposite and plain downright true comment on this site.

 

Thank you Pippy for making the obvious so very obvious.

['Scales]

Perhaps he/they do indeed know that (see Traditional, Reissues, etc) but wish it wasn't so.

[merciful-evans]

I (often) wonder, if some of the price increases (beyond all reason) are merely Greed, or due to some other factor(s) we're

blissfully unaware of. But, Gibson (and you say PRS) seem to be constantly going overboard, way beyond normal "inflation,"

considerations. Who knows??! All I know, is that they've (both) priced themselves out of any serious considerations, for me,

beyond admiring them, in a store...but NOT walking out with one, anymore! It's OK...I have (too) many guitars, already!

 

 

CB

 

My 'feeling' (not knowledge) about the highest end guitar prices is this:

 

Regular old made in USA priced guitar. Popular & desirable guitars. Some people cant afford them though. So...

make some where labour costs are low & offer them as the 'affordable' models (EPi/Squier/SE).

 

But there's something missing. What about the wealthy? They have cars, houses and holidays we cant afford. So why should they have to put up with the same guitar that some docker plays at church?

 

Why cant they have a guitar tailored to their own deep pockets? Something that set them apart from the common folk. Cynical view? Yep.

Are those guitars really better? That's always going to be subjective, so we cant PROVE it either way. Neither can they. So 'customer perception' kicks in nicely.

[BigKahune]

.

Piling on, but IMO these troubles all started years ago when Gibson began demanding higher stock numbers which pushed out smaller dealers. Then a few years ago there was Gibson's push to "innovate" in the form of robotic/automatic tuning and onboard sound electronics, culminating with the zero-nut fiasco and no-choice G-force tuners. That's all on Gibson, not the retailers. I could go on, but the subject has been well covered.

 

There's a new twist now - in a different quote attributed to Henry in paraphrase: Gibson has long protected their sales partners by refusing to have an online store, although he predicted that would almost certainly change. . . Seems to me that Gibson/Henry is thinking about opening their website to online retail purchases directly, just like Fender. I'm not sure how that will work for Gibson, dealing with all that goes on, but it seems like online retail is in the future for Gibson. And in that case, success will all be on Gibson.

 

 

.

[badbluesplayer]

My ex-doctor retired and he was kind of young and he told me "It's better to retire when you're on top rather than when your incompetent or disabled."

[Rabs]

On a purely selfish basis...

 

One thing I really hope is that what ever happens they keep this forum.. I would actually be pretty gutted if it shut because of all this.

[kidblast]

you guys can rip Hank a new one all you wnat, but the fact of the matter is the entire economy has been on a crash course with a vast, opened chasm that has no see-able bottom. you think Gibson is in trouble?

 

Well boys, just wait till this all finally hits the wall and the Feds can't print any more money backed by nothing but a paper trail.

[jdgm]

you guys can rip Hank a new one all you wnat, but the fact of the matter is the entire economy has been on a crash course with a vast, opened chasm that has no see-able bottom. you think Gibson is in trouble?

 

Well boys, just wait till this all finally hits the wall and the Feds can't print any more money backed by nothing but a paper trail.

 

 

Very good point. Unarguable really.

 

Plus - is the guitar market still expanding as it did in the 60s, or is it gradually shrinking?