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Waverlys on a J-35?

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I have a lead on a set of used Waverly tuners that are presently on a Martin for under $100. Anyone using them on their Gibsons? Any reaming or new bushings needed for a newer J-35, or would Waverlys be overkill?

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They love their Waverly's on the UMGF...

I think the tuners on your J35 are the same ones that used to be on the LG2 American Eagle pre 2016. They are decent. And the look is right (imo). If you want better, I'd go three on a plate Klusons wd90npp with the creme buttons. I put them on an LG2 and they are the smoothest tuners I have ever come across. No lie... and $42 bucks...

Edited by ThemisSal

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Well, I put Waverlys on my WM-45. Not that hard, but requires a touch of reaming for press in bushings to fit, and 1 screw hole to add x 6. Make sure to get press in bushings for 10mm hole (oversized bushings) Can get them from Stu-Mac.

Then again, you may not need them because I was replacing the heavy gold plated Grovers.

 

I got the reamer from Harbor Freight I think it was 4 or 5 bucks. Just used a small drill bit and my regular drill, mark off bit with some of your wife's nail polish to length of the screw tip so you don't drill too deep.

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Wonderful machineheads-I have a set on my ‘67 J45 and also had them on a Martin I owned some years ago. Buttery smooth and incredibly accurate. That said, I’m perfectly happy with the Grovers and Klusons on my other Gibsons too. If I only owned the one guitar, it would definitely have Waverlys on it, but outfitting the whole herd would cost me a lot of money that I’d rather spend on another guitar!!

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Well, I put Waverlys on my WM-45.

 

Well, I too, have Waverlys on the WM. So much of playing guitar has to do with things that can't be put into words, but one of those words might be tactile. Sure, Waverlys are accurate (though some have voiced issues), but tuning can become less of a chore, and more of a prelude. And the grained white ivoroid buttons are just right.

Looks like the tuners on a contemporary J-35 would be just fine, unless they are not up to the task. On the WM-45, the gold Grover Rotomatics were just too much, in heft, and visually, as well.

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I switched to Waverly's on this KKSJ

No mods.

I'm still working on getting all the buttons aligned

23F7AE98-04CD-4617-A35E-E8D852AD6910_zpso273rxds.jpg

Edited by Dave F

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Waverlys are never overkill (well, maybe on a $50 guitar...) and $100 is a great price. I don't have them on my J-35 -- have Golden Age Restoration tuners on it -- but I do have them on my D-18 clone built by Kevin Schwab in Minneapolis. They are great and worth the money. There really is a difference.

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I just looked at prices on Waverly's. They want some serious coin for their tuners.

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I'll be the old grump here and say that IMHO Waverly's are not worth the money. A Gotoh or Grover does exactly what a good tuner should do. I owned one guitar that already had Waverly's and they were fine, but I didn't notice any upgrade in functionality over my other guitars that have Gotoh, Grover and the Stew Mac Restorations. I can see why you may want open back. I would just replace them with open backs from one of the three that I listed above. But I understand you gotta roll with your desires!

Edited by bayoubengal1954

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I have a lead on a set of used Waverly tuners that are presently on a Martin for under $100. Anyone using them on their Gibsons? Any reaming or new bushings needed for a newer J-35, or would Waverlys be overkill?

 

actually Waverlys were on the early J35 guitars in the 90s..

 

 

 

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If you want better, I'd go three on a plate Klusons wd90npp with the creme buttons. I put them on an LG2 and they are the smoothest tuners I have ever come across. No lie... and $42 bucks...

 

Are those the same as these Klusons? I used them to replace the original Klusons on my 1965 J-50 and they are indeed very nice and smooth. Look exactly the same as the originals but the difference in operation is like night and day.

 

65j50_new.jpg

 

And as a bonus, they come in a cool vintage box. :) But the only place I could find 3 years ago that stocked the ones with cream buttons was a guy on eBay, and he doesn't seem to carry them anymore. Had been thinking of putting some on my 2008 J-50... the Antique Acoustics I put on it look good but don't operate very smoothly. Did you get your Klusons from WD?

 

kluson.jpg

 

You need to check the shaft size on the waverlys. I think the J-35 will be like my 2008 J-50 with the big over-sized rotomatic holes. You need to use reducing bushings for the smaller shafts. I had no trouble doing that myself, on the 2008 J-50, but some people wouldn't be comfortable with the process. I used a c-clamp and block of wood to press each bushing into the hole. StewMac makes some expensive special tool for this but it isn't necessary if you have any shop skills. I would not have wanted to use a reamer on the holes on my J-50. The StewMac bushings were designed to fit the rotamatic holes, but you have to apply a lot of pressure to push them in.

 

But the biggest issue with replacing the Rotomatics is the big washers on the front of the headstock. On my J-50, there were "bullseyes" where the washers used to be. I had to sand and polish the whole headstock to get rid of those. That could be a scary thing with a new guitar if you aren't used to this kind of thing.

 

Now I'm just assuming that the Waverlys are the "Vintage" style tuners with the smaller shafts. Personally, they're above my pay grade! ;)

Edited by Boyd

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Boyd,

They are the same tuners. I do love them.

I had replaced my J-50 tuners a few years ago with Stewmac Golden Restoration tuners. They are nice and have the look. But these Klusons are better. I don’t have the guts to mess with my J-50 now, but if I could go back in time....

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I had replaced my J-50 tuners a few years ago with Stewmac Golden Restoration tuners. They are nice and have the look. But these Klusons are better.

 

Thanks! Actually, now that I think of it, those sound like the same ones I used on my 2008 J-50, I posted about them almost exactly 4 years ago (wow, time flies...) http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/111365-ntd-new-tuners-day

 

They do look great, but are very cheaply made and just don't have a high enough gear ratio.

 

new%20tuners.jpg

Edited by Boyd

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I put them on an LG2 and they are the smoothest tuners I have ever come across. No lie... and $42 bucks...

 

Thanks again for posting this. The price has gone up to $60 now, but that's not bad. I'm going to replace the Golden Age tuners on my 2008 J-50 with these Klusons. Should be really easy, might need to drill a few holes but that's trivial. I already did the hard part when I removed the original Rotomatics.

 

I used the "double line" Klusons when I replaced the tuners on my 1965 J-50. The originals were the "single line" type, but nobody had those with cream colored buttons a few years ago. So I just ordered a set of "single line" tuners which I'll put on the 1965 J-50, then put the "double-line" tuners on the 2008 J-50.

 

Here are the three available styles, if anyone else is interested.

 

https://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_3_on_plate_plastic_button_nickel_no_line.html

https://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_3_plate_plastic_button_nickel.html

https://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_3_on_plate_plastic_button_nickel_double_row.html

 

WD90NPP_DR.jpg

WD90NPP.jpg

WD90NPP_NL.jpg

Edited by Boyd

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Thanks again for posting this, the price has gone up to $60 now, but that;s not bad. I'm going to replace the Golden Age tuners on my 2008 J-50 with these Klusons. Should be really easy, might need to drill a few holes but that's trivial. I already did the hard part when I removed the original Rotomatics.

 

I used the "double line" Klusons when I replaced the tuners on my 1965 J-50. The originals were the "single line" type, but nobody had those with cream colored buttons a few years ago. So I just ordered a set of "single line" tuners whick I'll put on the 1965 J-50, then put the "double-line" tuners on the 2008 J-50.

 

Here are the three available styles, if anyone else is interested.

 

https://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_3_on_plate_plastic_button_nickel_no_line.html

https://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_3_plate_plastic_button_nickel.html

https://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_3_on_plate_plastic_button_nickel_double_row.html

 

WD90NPP_DR.jpg

WD90NPP.jpg

WD90NPP_NL.jpg

 

Boyd--You may want to check out the price on reverb. I think it's the same Model as your first link.

NEW Kluson Traditional 3x3 3 PER PLATE TUNERS Vintage Nickel Pearl WD90NPP

https://reverb.com/item/9954880-new-kluson-traditional-3x3-3-per-plate-tuners-vintage-nickel-pearl-wd90npp

Wait, I just saw you have ordered.

Edited by bayoubengal1954

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Thanks - but they're already on the way, and I'd just as soon use a company I've already done business with. :)

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I nabbed a couple sets of these when Stewmac was clearing them out.

They're antique silver.

 

They're 15:149AF2054-E0D4-43A6-BBDB-196EEE3BC454_zpsbciaiu4t.jpg

Edited by Dave F

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I had replaced my J-50 tuners a few years ago with Stewmac Golden Restoration tuners. They are nice and have the look. But these Klusons are better. I don’t have the guts to mess with my J-50 now, but if I could go back in time....

 

Just got the Klusons from WD today. Took the Golden Age tuners off the 2008 J-50 and swapped them with the Klusons. It was really easy - two of the four screw holes on each strip matched up so I only needed to drill a total of 4 new holes which could only be described as "trivial". The whole swap literally took 5 minutes, so I wouldn't be afraid to do this at all. One nice thing is that the Kluson buttons have a longer shaft and stick out a bit farther from the headstock. The top tuner on the Golden Age was very close to the headstock.

 

Only downside is that the last digit of the serial number is partially covered by the top of one of the tuner strips. I knew this would be an issue based on measurements I took a few years ago, and that was one reason why I went with Golden Age in the first place. But it's no big deal, the serial number is also on the sticker in the soundhole, and the Klusons are SO much smoother than the others. :)

Edited by Boyd

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I missed out on the Waverlys and impulsively bought a set of Golden Age open back tuners with off-white knobs. They were a drop in, didn't even have to change the bushings...no mods required at all.

 

Well, almost no mods....

 

As I was got closer to pitch the new tuners became harder and harder to turn. It felt like something was binding. So off they came and I noticed a little play between the shaft and the stock bushing. Even the replacement bushings had the same amount of play so the stock ones were left in.

 

White lithium grease was applied to all the moving parts including under the removable tightening screw, petroleum jelly was dabbed on the tuner shaft and inside the bushing and I crossed my fingers.

 

Bingo!!! Major improvement, not quite smooth as silk but they operate pretty well....look a lot better too.

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Congrats- glad you were able to get a noticeable improvement after a little tinkering- I usually stand a 50-50 chance of getting smoother tuner movement with doing either what you did, or by changing the tightness on the screw for the gear.

 

And rest assured, even more expensive tuners can be found to give this sort of problem. Now- pics or . . . [smile] !

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White lithium grease was applied to all the moving parts including under the removable tightening screw

 

I learned this is a bad idea the hard way. Used lithium grease on those Golden Age tuners and it definitely made them operate smoother. Then I had the guitar in the case outside on a warm day and when I opened it up there was sticky gunk all over. That lithium grease is very viscous in a 70 degree room, but on a hot day it liquifies. It was a real mess to clean up, it ran down the headstock and neck. Wiping with a cloth just spread a greasy film all over the guitar. Finally used Virtuoso cleaner to get things back to normal.

 

You might want to clean as much of that grease off now, before you have an unpleasant surprise on a warm day... :)

 

Interesting that Golden Age makes a drop-in version of their tuners now, don't recall seeing that before. Or didn't your guitar have those big Rotomatics originally?

Edited by Boyd

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I learned this is a bad idea the hard way. Used lithium grease on those Golden Age tuners and it definitely made them operate smoother. Then I had the guitar in the case outside on a warm day and when I opened it up there was sticky gunk all over. That lithium grease is very viscous in a 70 degree room, but on a hot day it liquifies. It was a real mess to clean up, it ran down the headstock and neck. Wiping with a cloth just spread a greasy film all over the guitar. Finally used Virtuoso cleaner to get things back to normal.

 

You might want to clean as much of that grease off now, before you have an unpleasant surprise on a warm day... :)

 

Interesting that Golden Age makes a drop-in version of their tuners now, don't recall seeing that before. Or didn't your guitar have those big Rotomatics originally?

 

I agree with Boyd. I would never use grease of any type on tuners, or anywhere else on a guitar.

 

For lubricating gears and posts, I use a PTFE (Teflon) dry lubricant called Tri-Flow. You can usually get it at a bike shop, if you can't find it elsewhere.

 

Works a treat.

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The base problem is that the Golden Age tuners are poorly designed and built. They look nice but just don't operate smoothly and no amount of lubricant is going to fix the problem. The gear ratio isn't high enough and there's a lot of friction. Really pleased with my 2008 J-50 and the Klusons now. :)

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