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Wild Bill 212

OPINION'S

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Hello Players, I would appreciate opinion's and maybe some tips on what YOU guys think is the single best TREMOLO to put on an '17 'SG' STANDARD (Besides none !). I had a Bigsby B7 on a '16 'SG' Special and it was OK, looked BAD-A$$ w/Wrap-around look. Of course tuning issue's were constant, but not un-bearable, even with a Roller-Bridge. Surprisingly the Golden-Eagle Roller-Bridge was not much of a help keeping the Guitar in tune and I ended up taking it off and using the STOCK T-O-M BRIDGE. I sold the guitar and kept the Bigsby B7 and it has since gone on my Les Paul STANDARD, which is great as the Bigsby doesn't just collect dust or go to REVERB for a new home.

 

Of course, I will NOT drill or route the Guitar. I have no idea how to find a Maestro dealer and IDK if Lyre is the same thing or what. Who are some of the other maker's of TREMOLO units for an 'SG' ? I've heard of Schaller but know nothing about them.....I caught a glimpse of a Duesenberg 'Les Trem II' and they seem OK, especially with the small foot print, but looked a li'l fragile but IDK as I have never actually touched or even seen one in person and the only one I could find is shipped from Germany so IDK if it will double in price when it passes through USA Customs.

 

I am leaning towards a Bigsby B5 'HORSESHOE' w/the Vibramate adapter as it has no need for drilling/routing,comes off and goes back on the Guitar in short order and needs no extra tension bar like the B7 does (or does it?). I would gladly consider a different unit by anyone who makes a good Tremolo unit for a GIBSON 'SG' that does not require any modifications being done to the Guitar.

 

Any suggestions and/or comments are appreciated, KEEP ROCKIN' !

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hey Bill

 

I have a vibramate on one of my LPs, and have installed a few as well for people. They do make a great fit for adding a bigsby with no mods

 

About tuning issues, did you lube the nut, and saddles? in my experience this makes quite a difference.

 

the V5/B5 would be perfect for an SG. I have considered adding one on my Classic or Standard.

 

But there's a thread in this same sub forum where a pretty cool option was posted. Les Trem (Dusenberg)

this is a link to a demo: https://reverb.com/item/5901447-tremolo-duesenberg-les-trem-ii-tm85c-remplace-cordier-tailpiece-stoptail-lp-sg-chrome

 

I was impressed with this Les Trem as a real easy option to get a vibrato mod done quick and easy with no changes.

 

could be JUST the thing you are looking for. Seems drop dead easy to install, and seems quite stable. and low cost too! (the v5/b5 kits are like $200 is USD from places like Stew Mac.) Check it out

Edited by kidblast

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hey Bill

 

I have a vibramate on one of my LPs, and have installed a few as well for people. They do make a great fit for adding a bigsby with no mods

 

About tuning issues, did you lube the nut, and saddles? in my experience this makes quite a difference.

 

the V5/B5 would be perfect for an SG. I have considered adding one on my Classic or Standard.

 

But there's a thread in this same sub forum where a pretty cool option was posted. Les Trem (Dusenberg)

this is a link to a demo: https://reverb.com/i...il-lp-sg-chrome

 

I was impressed with this Les Trem as a real easy option to get a vibrato mod done quick and easy with no changes.

 

could be JUST the thing you are looking for. Seems drop dead easy to install, and seems quite stable. and low cost too! (the v5/b5 kits are like $200 is USD from places like Stew Mac.) Check it out

 

Thanks Kid Blast,The Duesenberg Les Trem II looks like a winner. The only thing is the link was to a seller in France and the LT-II in the advert was 'UN-AVAILABLE' (WHAT?). IDK how I missed that one but the one 'Les Trim II' that I did see was in Germany, so coming from the E.U. I wander about tarriffs/shipping/problems, especially now. I do use Guitar-Grease on the NUT/Saddles and my guitars never 'PING' when tuning but the tuning issue's w/Bigsby were the same as if I did not use it. Same with pencil lead dust, the biggest surprise was the Roller-bridge doing NOTHING to mitigate the tuning issue's, POS it was.

 

Looking at the Bigsby B5, the one bolt on the Bass side goes into the Stop-Tail insert, check, seems obvious/easy. But on the Treble side the spring is where the only other place the Bolt could be going into where the Treble side Insert is. The only other hole I see is off-set towards Bridge. I am sure I can figure it out once it is in my hands BUT looking at it, I swear I do not get it.Unless, it has to be, the Bolt on the Treble side goes into the Stop-Tail insert from underneath the Bigsby B5's Spring, yes ? I do not see how else it could go on. Since I already have the wrap around Bigsby B3, the 'HORSESHOE'/B5 is the BIGSBY I would go for, but I'd like to see comments on some of the alternatives out there. The Floyd Rose Tremolo I saw is $325+, and thats a bit much and looks problematic.........

Edited by Wild Bill 212

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This is how the V5 mounts:

 

pMWaYfr.gif

 

I've never used a B5/V5 but I have had B7's on a couple guitars with and without Vibramate. I don't really like the Vibramate that much because it raises the arm too high off the deck, that's partly from the thickness of the plate itself but it also changes the angle of the Bigsby which amplifies that effect. It makes it a bit harder to reach the arm which sticks out like a mast on a sailboat. Taking out the plastic bushing for the spring helps some. I'm not sure if they make a shorter spring or not.

 

As for tuning stability, I've never had problems with them. They've all stayed in tune very nicely.

 

All that said, The Vibramate is a quick easy way to get a Bigsby on without modification and it does work.

 

I think the Duesenberg looks like a nice piece too but I've never tried one.

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The install is really easy, and like Black Dog says,, the vibrate mounting plate is where everything goes.

 

The picture should answer the questions you had.

 

I don't really like the Vibramate that much because it raises the arm too high off the deck, that's partly from the thickness of the plate itself but it also changes the angle of the Bigsby which amplifies that effect

 

I'm in 100% agreement here. It does do just that, and the only springs I found were from Reverend (a soft touch spring) that's even taller.. felt nice action wise, but the arm was quite high after installing. I replaced the stock spring. I can use the soft touch spring on my 135 which was permanently installed.

 

so while it is not "perfect" for all the reasons you state, I've taken it as a compromise the having the freedom to use it, and remove it, w/out having to do any irreversible mods to my 95 Standard.

Edited by kidblast

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Thanks Kid Blast,The Duesenberg Les Trem II looks like a winner. The only thing is the link was to a seller in France and the LT-II in the advert was 'UN-AVAILABLE' (WHAT?). IDK how I missed that one but the one 'Les Trim II' that I did see was in Germany, so coming from the E.U. I wander about tarriffs/shipping/problems, especially now. I do use Guitar-Grease on the NUT/Saddles and my guitars never 'PING' when tuning but the tuning issue's w/Bigsby were the same as if I did not use it. Same with pencil lead dust, the biggest surprise was the Roller-bridge doing NOTHING to mitigate the tuning issue's, POS it was.

I installed a Les Trem II on my Explorer In just a few minutes, it is one of few of the coil spring types that can dive about a full octave. The Les Trem II is a tough piece of German engineering, I am really hard on it diving unmercifully and it still comes back to reasonable tune. This type o tremolo, without a locking nut, usually needs a tiny bit of graphite on the nut to help the string tensions balance on both sides.

 

One of the cool points about the Les Trem II, it is easy to remove without leaving any unused screw holes. I tried it on my LP then my SG and it found its home on my Explorer. Since the Dive bar is round and angled using set screws for placement, it gives you a lot of possible positions and swivels out of the way easily staying where you leave it.

 

I did use it with a T-O-M bridge and it worked just fine, but because of my extreme abuse on the tremolo I eventually installed a roller bridge. Which I think I would do with any coil spring tremolo.

TM85N_15767f002e2f7f_600x600.jpgTM85C_3_600x600.jpg

 

Reverb from Rockinger Guitars Les Trem II nickel $82.25 + shipping

 

or Les Trem II chrome $82.25 + shipping

 

 

Edited by mihcmac

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1528461759[/url]' post='1939333']

hey Bill

 

I have a vibramate on one of my LPs, and have installed a few as well for people. They do make a great fit for adding a bigsby with no mods

 

About tuning issues, did you lube the nut, and saddles? in my experience this makes quite a difference.

 

the V5/B5 would be perfect for an SG. I have considered adding one on my Classic or Standard.

 

But there's a thread in this same sub forum where a pretty cool option was posted. Les Trem (Dusenberg)

this is a link to a demo: https://reverb.com/i...il-lp-sg-chrome

 

I was impressed with this Les Trem as a real easy option to get a vibrato mod done quick and easy with no changes.

 

could be JUST the thing you are looking for. Seems drop dead easy to install, and seems quite stable. and low cost too! (the v5/b5 kits are like $200 is USD from places like Stew Mac.) Check it out

 

I agree, the V5/B5 is a great combo, and works well. :)

bigsby.jpg

 

bigsfront.jpg

 

 

 

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I agree, the V5/B5 is a great combo, and works well. :)

 

 

bigsfront.jpg

 

Absolutely beautiful ! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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This is how the V5 mounts:

 

pMWaYfr.gif

 

I've never used a B5/V5 but I have had B7's on a couple guitars with and without Vibramate. I don't really like the Vibramate that much because it raises the arm too high off the deck, that's partly from the thickness of the plate itself but it also changes the angle of the Bigsby which amplifies that effect. It makes it a bit harder to reach the arm which sticks out like a mast on a sailboat. Taking out the plastic bushing for the spring helps some. I'm not sure if they make a shorter spring or not.

 

As for tuning stability, I've never had problems with them. They've all stayed in tune very nicely.

 

All that said, The Vibramate is a quick easy way to get a Bigsby on without modification and it does work.

 

I think the Duesenberg looks like a nice piece too but I've never tried one.

 

THANKS BLACK DOG, it is just as I figured with one exception.IDK, but it appears that if the B5's Bass side MOUNTING Screw is put in the Bass side Stop-Tail Bolt Insert, then it appears that the Treble side of the B5 is going to be off-set or Cock-eyed towards the Head-Stock. Maybe its just me...???? If no one else has had to drill or screw anything into their Guitar, I'm sure I won't either and it will become clear as soon as I decide to do the install. What I do not like is the sound of the HEIGHT of the ARM due to the VIBRAMATE. Storing the guitar in its case, as I have stopped leaving my Axe's out and in stands, would then be a concern.

 

 

I like the look of the 'HORSE-SHOE' B5, My 'SG' Special w/B7 looked BAD-A$$....... but this B5 is even better. Now the B7 is on my Les Paul STANDARD and I could just put the B7 on my 'SG' STANDARD as I fixed the Bass side Stop-Tail insert issue's I was having due to the INSERT being over-sprayed w/Paint at the factory. BUT, I won't take the B7 off the Les Paul now as the strap screw is now different and putting the original one back in the Guitar would not be the greatest of idea's.

 

So the choices are another Bigsby B7, Bigsby B5 or the Duesenberg 'Les Trem II'.....

 

I am thinking I am going to grab the Duesenberg 'Les TREM II', I can get one in CHROME, Shipped from the U.K. to my Buddy that is but 30KMs. from the person advertising on REVERB, then have him ship it to me here in the States...

 

Posting pics on this web-site is something I have been able to do ONCE. Its too bad, got some pics I'd like to post ,as illustrative of what I have described above, but can not....maybe GIBSON should get that straightened out?

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I installed a Les Trem II on my Explorer In just a few minutes, it is one of few of the coil spring types that can dive about a full octave. The Les Trem II is a tough piece of German engineering, I am really hard on it diving unmercifully and it still comes back to reasonable tune. This type o tremolo, without a locking nut, usually needs a tiny bit of graphite on the nut to help the string tensions balance on both sides.

 

One of the cool points about the Les Trem II, it is easy to remove without leaving any unused screw holes. I tried it on my LP then my SG and it found its home on my Explorer. Since the Dive bar is round and angled using set screws for placement, it gives you a lot of possible positions and swivels out of the way easily staying where you leave it.

 

I did use it with a T-O-M bridge and it worked just fine, but because of my extreme abuse on the tremolo I eventually installed a roller bridge. Which I think I would do with any coil spring tremolo.

TM85N_15767f002e2f7f_600x600.jpgTM85C_3_600x600.jpg

 

Reverb from Rockinger Guitars Les Trem II nickel $82.25 + shipping

 

or Les Trem II chrome $82.25 + shipping

 

 

Thanks for posting the part about getting almost an Octave out of this unit and it being a TOUGH piece of German Engineering. I appreciate that !!! The 'DOOZY' is going to cost about $25-$40 less (depending on how I have it shipped) than either the Bigsby B5 or B7 and it is most likely the unit I will be going with.

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THANKS to those who left their comments and suggestions....I really appreciate the effort.

 

I will most likely give the 'DOOZY' Les Trem II a shot!!! AND MAYBE when I get it on the Guitar I can post a picture of it if I ever figure out how to get another picture posted on this web-site. My 'SG' STANDARD is a 'Black-Beauty' like the one that was posted. Only difference being that mine has the smaller 'ANGEL WING' Pick-Guard.

Edited by Wild Bill 212

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THANKS to those who left their comments and suggestions....I really appreciate the effort.

 

I will most likely give the 'DOOZY' Les Trem II a shot!!! AND MAYBE when I get it on the Guitar I can post a picture of it if I ever figure out how to get another picture posted on this web-site. My 'SG' STANDARD is a 'Black-Beauty' like the one that was posted. Only difference being that mine has the smaller 'ANGEL WING' Pick-Guard.

I just bought another one for my Les Paul. my total cost plus shipping to Hawaii was $106.61 ordering through Reverb... My Les Paul is excited....

ddzseqzmjhbfiwshhnew.jpg

 

Wild Bill 212..... In the new post editor picture.png - This will insert an image...... using a url from an image hosting site....

Edited by mihcmac

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I just bought another one for my Les Paul. my total cost plus shipping to Hawaii was $106.61 ordering through Reverb... My Les Paul is excited....

ddzseqzmjhbfiwshhnew.jpg

 

Wild Bill 212..... In the new post editor picture.png - This will insert an image...... using a url from an image hosting site....

 

Thanks, I appreciate that.This is the 1st I C up-close the Allen Wrenches for the screw/piece on top of the Stop-Bar and the other KEY is for the top round Knurled piece above the spring to get the spring out ? OK, and the Four screws are Two of the US & Two Metric for the Stop Bar inserts on the Guitar, check ! I must say, its simplicity is remarkable and if it is as tough as most German products are IDK why they stopped making these Bad-Boys.

 

BTW, IDK what a 'Image Hosting site' is, unless that means I can load a picture from my Google Pics ? But that would not have a URL, so I really do not know how this works....and , no, IT's NOT AT ALL FRUSTRATING EITHER, EE-GAD MON !

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I installed a Les Trem II on my Explorer In just a few minutes, it is one of few of the coil spring types that can dive about a full octave. The Les Trem II is a tough piece of German engineering, I am really hard on it diving unmercifully and it still comes back to reasonable tune. This type o tremolo, without a locking nut, usually needs a tiny bit of graphite on the nut to help the string tensions balance on both sides.

 

One of the cool points about the Les Trem II, it is easy to remove without leaving any unused screw holes. I tried it on my LP then my SG and it found its home on my Explorer. Since the Dive bar is round and angled using set screws for placement, it gives you a lot of possible positions and swivels out of the way easily staying where you leave it.

 

I did use it with a T-O-M bridge and it worked just fine, but because of my extreme abuse on the tremolo I eventually installed a roller bridge. Which I think I would do with any coil spring tremolo.

TM85N_15767f002e2f7f_600x600.jpgTM85C_3_600x600.jpg

 

Reverb from Rockinger Guitars Les Trem II nickel $82.25 + shipping

 

or Les Trem II chrome $82.25 + shipping

 

That certainly looks to be a quality piece of hardwear. Nice design too.

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Thanks, I appreciate that.This is the 1st I C up-close the Allen Wrenches for the screw/piece on top of the Stop-Bar and the other KEY is for the top round Knurled piece above the spring to get the spring out ? OK, and the Four screws are Two of the US & Two Metric for the Stop Bar inserts on the Guitar, check ! I must say, its simplicity is remarkable and if it is as tough as most German products are IDK why they stopped making these Bad-Boys.

I looked at Reverb today who gets their Trem II's from Rockinger Guitars, but Reverbs Right hand Nickel finish listing disappeared. My order is confirmed its all good... So any way went right to the source at Rockinger and they show them in stock..

 

Rockinger Guitars site... Duesenberg Les Trem II

 

or

 

Duesenberg site... Duesenberg Les Trem II

Edited by mihcmac

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http://townerusa.com...ibrato-systems/

 

http://www.croxguita...GibVibrolas.htm

 

check these out as well! the towner is awesome!

 

YES, I know...I got my Bigsby B7 from Chris Towner along with the 'Towner Tension Bar' as well, and when I took the B7 off my SG Special I got the adapter block from TownerUSA as well, so I could put the B7 on my Les Paul ! Its cool that they are inter-changeable !!!

 

BTW, Chris Towner's Retro-Fits are the BEST Bigsby Retro-Fits out there ! I wanted to see what else was out there so I asked...there is something else called a STETSBAR or something like that but no one has mentioned it yet. The Floyd Rose Trem's are really pricey and I think they need mods too, the 'DOOZY' seems like a COOL Gadget, small and can do 'BOMBS' !

 

I could not open the 2nd link though.

Edited by Wild Bill 212

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YES, I know...I got my Bigsby B7 from Chris Towner along with the 'Towner Tension Bar' as well, and when I took the B7 off my SG Special I got the adapter block from TownerUSA as well, so I could put the B7 on my Les Paul ! Its cool that they are inter-changeable !!!

 

BTW, Chris Towner's Retro-Fits are the BEST Bigsby Retro-Fits out there ! I wanted to see what else was out there so I asked...there is something else called a STETSBAR or something like that but no one has mentioned it yet. The Floyd Rose Trem's are really pricey and I think they need mods too, the 'DOOZY' seems like a COOL Gadget, small and can do 'BOMBS' !

 

I could not open the 2nd link though.

 

 

the second link is a European store that sells official Gibson short and long Maestro lyre and sideways vibrolas !

 

 

http://www.croxguitars.com/GibAOAHW.htm

Edited by poopcicle

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I have an SG with a Floyd Rose FRX. No drilling required.

The FRX looks interesting, a lot of metal though, do they come with a locking nut? I had a few guitar's with Floyd Rose tremolo's in my Satriani wana-be days. Which gave way to Improv Rock Fusion.

Edited by mihcmac

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I looked at Reverb today who gets their Trem II's from Rockinger Guitars, but Reverbs Right hand Nickel finish listing disappeared. My order is confirmed its all good... So any way went right to the source at Rockinger and they show them in stock..

 

Rockinger Guitars site... Duesenberg Les Trem II

 

or

 

Duesenberg site... Duesenberg Les Trem II

 

@ Mihcmac, U went to the Guy in Merseyside, U.K. for the Les Trem II ? Did he mention TAXS/TARRIFFS as it goes thru USA Customs ? There is a dog-fight/trade wise going on between the E.U. & USA right now......this 'DOOZY' Les Trem II looks OK, may be a solid li'l unit, but if there is a 100% tariff on it.....UH, Then, to me, it is not worth buying, especially used...Has 'Duesenberg' stopped manufacturing these things ? I went to their web-site and the web-page has 'MOVED' and 'NO FURTHER INFO IS AVAILABLE'.....I'd like to try to get one from the manufacturer or at least from inside the USA.One Guy in Montreal, Quebec, I asked him a question about tarriffs and he acted like I was the Royal Canadian Mounties, Dudley Doo-right or some ****....ugh !

I've been talked out of the Bigsby B5, the adapter raise's the arm too much, and this 'Les Trem II' looks like the only reasonable alternative.....

Edited by Wild Bill 212

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@ Mihcmac, U went to the Guy in Merseyside, U.K. for the Les Trem II ? Did he mention TAXS/TARRIFFS as it goes thru USA Customs ? There is a dog-fight/trade wise going on between the E.U. & USA right now......this 'DOOZY' Les Trem II looks OK, may be a solid li'l unit, but if there is a 100% tariff on it.....UH, Then, to me, it is not worth buying, especially used...Has 'Duesenberg' stopped manufacturing these things ? I went to their web-site and the web-page has 'MOVED' and 'NO FURTHER INFO IS AVAILABLE'.....I'd like to try to get one from the manufacturer or at least from inside the USA.One Guy in Montreal, Quebec, I asked him a question about tarriffs and he acted like I was the Royal Canadian Mounties, Dudley Doo-right or some ****....ugh !

I've been talked out of the Bigsby B5, the adapter raise's the arm too much, and this 'Les Trem II' looks like the only reasonable alternative.....

I paid no import duties in Hawaii..

 

Rockinger must have changed their link, they got um in Chrome Nickel and Gold..

 

Rockinger gutars Les Trem II....

 

Reverb still has a Chrome Les trem II...

 

Reverb Le s Trem II....

 

 

 

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I paid no import duties in Hawaii..

 

Rockinger must have changed their link, they got um in Chrome Nickel and Gold..

 

Rockinger gutars Les Trem II....

 

Reverb still has a Chrome Les trem II...

 

Reverb Le s Trem II....

 

 

 

 

@mihkmac, THANKS for the good word, that is encouraging. If we're are referring to the same Guys that I e-mailed last week I should hear from them tomorrow.Think I'll pull the trigger on this Bad-Boy then....

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My new Duesenberg Les Trem II arrived yesterday. I installed it on my modified Faded LP Special DC.. It took longer to replace the strings than to install the tremolo. I may also try it on my LP Standard.

 

The string tension on each side of the nut was not equalizing very well. I put a dry graphite lock lubricant in the string slots on the nut and its working great now.

post-89038-029131300 1529703543_thumb.jpg

Edited by mihcmac

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