Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Dash_Starkiller

The Beatles vs The Stones!!

Recommended Posts

If I recall the guitar in the Stones exhibition is not the same '63 Hummingbird pictured in the accompanying book. The earliest Stones' acoustic recordings like Tell Me were done with a Harmony 1270. The Gibson HB was first used in the Aftermath sessions. Both natural and burst versions were all over the place during the Beggars sessions as well as the Let It Bleed sessions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But this one has the 1968 screws and must be considered extremely faded if it ever was a weak-pigmented burst.

The guard does have screws ... maybe it started to lift at some point and had it screwed in the late 60's or early 70?

 

 

It came with a plastic bridge i believe which went on in through 1962 ... an early 63 could probably get one too until they ran out.In the book of the exibit you can see the shadow of the plastic bridge which has now been changed out to a standard rosewood bridge.

 

 

It's a natural bird ... looks like faded cherry probably do to the lighting but It's natural.

 

I believe this bird was lost for many years until someone at Heathrow Airport found it in a closet or something like that.That's the point were Jagger started caring about his old instruments

 

 

 

 

 

JC

Edited by JuanCarlosVejar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a related curiosity, here is James Taylor - who famously played a J-50 - in the old Apple studio playing a J-160E, which people think might have belonged to John or George.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In answer to your question, Dash_Starkiller, I’d never been a fan of the Stones. But the other day I was watching a documentary about Gibson guitars on YouTube and it got to the part where Emmylou Harris singled out Keith Richards as a fantastic rhythm guitarist. I decided to check out his solo acoustic work and loved it. And I have to confess I hadn’t realised how many Stones songs are actually acoustic guitars recorded in a way that makes them sound different.

 

Fired by a realisation that Keith is terrific, I’ve developed an interest in the Rolling Stones at the age of 42 - having got into them via Emmylou Harris! (And indeed via my affection for Gibson guitars.)

 

Funny old world.

 

P.S. Check out a well-refreshed Keith doing a lazy but GORGEOUS version of Make No Mistake on his Dove:

 

Edited by TomG76

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I recall the guitar in the Stones exhibition is not the same '63 Hummingbird pictured in the accompanying book. The earliest Stones' acoustic recordings like Tell Me were done with a Harmony 1270. The Gibson HB was first used in the Aftermath sessions. Both natural and burst versions were all over the place during the Beggars sessions as well as the Let It Bleed sessions.

Yes, the blonde Bird in the book from the exhibition I've seen looked as if it didn't have screws and wasn't nearly as mojoed.

 

The guard does have screws ... maybe it started to lift at some point and had it screwed in the late 60's or early 70?

 

It came with a plastic bridge i believe which went on in through 1962 ... an early 63 could probably get one too until they ran out.In the book of the exibit you can see the shadow of the plastic bridge which has now been changed out to a standard rosewood bridge.

 

It's a natural bird ... looks like faded cherry probably do to the lighting but It's natural.

 

I believe this bird was lost for many years until someone at Heathrow Airport found it in a closet or something like that.That's the point were Jagger started caring about his old instruments

 

Aha, , , I may be about to be expanded here. Never saw natural Birds in the Stones camp before France 1972. Would love to see pics - is that possible, guys.

And can I ask about your source, JCV. You know I been goin' like Sherlock for details about these guitars.

 

The big plastic-bridge-year was 1963. Some were made in 62 and 64 though.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In answer to your question, Dash_Starkiller, I’d never been a fan of the Stones. But the other day I was watching a documentary about Gibson guitars on YouTube and it got to the part where Emmylou Harris singled out Keith Richards as a fantastic rhythm guitarist. I decided to check out his solo acoustic work and loved it. And I have to confess I hadn’t realised how many Stones songs are actually acoustic guitars recorded in a way that makes them sound different.

 

Fired by a realisation that Keith is terrific, I’ve developed an interest in the Rolling Stones at the age of 42 - having got into them via Emmylou Harris! (And indeed via my affection for Gibson guitars.)

 

Funny old world.

 

P.S. Check out a well-refreshed Keith doing a lazy but GORGEOUS version of Make No Mistake on his Dove:

 

 

Tom- the Dove in that linked video is a perfect example of what you were asking about in your J-45 Burst thread: it's not common for bursts to be washed in photos of most standard sunbursts, but the camera is often not kind to some of the more reddish bursts as on Keith's Dove. Or- the guitars from the early/mid '60's with the cherry sunburst finishes had a history of fading with time, and some of the red pigment faded out (Iced Tea burst), or the darker red remained. Also check out the J-160's the lads were holding in the Beatles in the music shop pics posted in this thread- I'm sure those bursts looked nicer in the flesh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Tom- the Dove in that linked video is a perfect example of what you were asking about in your J-45 Burst thread: it's not common for bursts to be washed in photos of most standard sunbursts, but the camera is often not kind to some of the more reddish bursts as on Keith's Dove. Or- the guitars from the early/mid '60's with the cherry sunburst finishes had a history of fading with time, and some of the red pigment faded out (Iced Tea burst), or the darker red remained. Also check out the J-160's the lads were holding in the Beatles in the music shop pics posted in this thread- I'm sure those bursts looked nicer in the flesh.

 

Thanks mate - really helpful.

 

I’m loving all this detailed guitar spec talk! I feel like I’ve found a home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you imagine them with any other acoustic/electric guitar? Would the fundamental sound have changed? Would they write the songs the same way?

 

Good question. I could see them all with Texans or ordinary J-45's in the studio, but not live. It would have influenced their sub-signature sound a lot.

We would have heard mellower flavors inside those mixes and not the crisp distinct sharper raw percussive edge we know.

All in all it would have been slightly more ordinary, but as said - what a luck Paul got that Texan home in time.

 

No, I don't think it would made a difference in the writing.

During the writing process you don't think 's o u n d' - the instrument is primarily a tool below the springing ideas.

And to get the ideas under control is everything- especially when you create under circumstances like Lennon-McCartney while touring and under daily time pressure at home.

 

In fact everything is fine as is is turned out - also between the 2 bands mentioned. A novelist couldn't have done it better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm loving all this detailed guitar spec talk! I feel like I've found a home.

Welcome, Tom - sit down and make yourself comfortable.

You will soon be served some acoustic tea.

Rum. . ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got "the book" out to check.

 

The one in the book does have the 6 screws in the pickguard

In fact I was able to see the serial number:952726 which theoretically makes it a 68

 

 

 

I did notice you cannot see many of the marks that you can see in the display case (an issue of lighting perhaps?) , in this lighting you can't see any wear and tear:

 

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2018/may/01/guitar-legend-gibson-seeks-bankruptcy-protection/

 

I don't see a reason for the RS camp to want to mislead the public about the guitar

 

Brian Jones played a blonde bird in 1968:

 

https://www.morrisonhotelgallery.com/photographs/fgtIIc/Brian-Jones-Mick-Jagger-Keith-Richards

 

 

The actual owner of the Bird could be anyone of them

 

 

 

 

JC

Edited by JuanCarlosVejar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got "the book" out to check.

 

The one in the book does have the 6 screws in the pickguard

In fact I was able to see the serial number:952726 which theoretically makes it a 68

 

 

 

I did notice you cannot see many of the marks that you can see in the display case (an issue of lighting perhaps?) , in this lighting you can't see any wear and tear:

 

https://m.lasvegassu...tcy-protection/

 

I don't see a reason for the RS camp to want to mislead the public about the guitar

 

Brian Jones played a blonde bird in 1968:

 

https://www.morrison...-Keith-Richards

 

 

The actual owner of the Bird could be anyone of them

 

 

 

 

JC

 

Oh yesss, , , the Brian Jones photo. I believe we had it up 6 months or so, thanx for the reminder - won't forget again.

 

Regarding the blonde in the montre, the screws and the serial# speaks quite loud. It's probably a 68'er. Anyway, the more pics (and Birds) the better.

196? ~ JKZnF5V.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rambler here. Some here are comparing 70s Sticky Stones (Midnite Mile, anyone?) to 60s Fabs, which is apples and oranges, given 1) changing studio tech and 2) the Fabs were disbanded.

 

The 'non-touring years? The Fabs got some lovely sounds, mostly on those D28s: Two of Us, Across the Universe, Julia, Mo natures Son etc. Nothing shabby about that. The Stones Gibson sounds on Banquet are chunkier (Prodigal Son, always a fav), as would be expected. Both are good. It's a wash.

 

The mania period is harder to judge, partly because the recording tech wasnt as good. My memory says acoustics werent that prominent in the early Stones track and that the sound was muddy or metallic. The Beats sound was warmer and more acousti--centric. In fact, a lot of the mixes sound like a bass drums and flattop trio, with Hari making little stabs or flying in a solo. Folk rock before there was folk rock. Hard to beat songs like Hide your Love, Seen a Face, Looking Through You, N-Wood, or Only Sleeping for tone or content. My 2 cents.

 

 

ps. Id say Leenon was on the J160E more often than his Ricks. Experts, correct me if Im mistaken

Edited by Rambler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got "the book" out to check.

 

The one in the book does have the 6 screws in the pickguard

In fact I was able to see the serial number:952726 which theoretically makes it a 68

 

 

 

I did notice you cannot see many of the marks that you can see in the display case (an issue of lighting perhaps?) , in this lighting you can't see any wear and tear:

 

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2018/may/01/guitar-legend-gibson-seeks-bankruptcy-protection/

 

I don't see a reason for the RS camp to want to mislead the public about the guitar

 

Brian Jones played a blonde bird in 1968:

 

https://www.morrisonhotelgallery.com/photographs/fgtIIc/Brian-Jones-Mick-Jagger-Keith-Richards

 

 

The actual owner of the Bird could be anyone of them

 

 

 

 

JC

 

 

That looks '68 all the way from here. Down belly bridge, screwed pickguard, 1 9/16" or 1 5/8" nut width. It's not at all surprising that the serial # confirms it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty boy Beatles, bad boy Stones. Stones, and not even close.

Lest we forget those pretty boys changed music forever. The White Album may be the greatest double album of all time. Everyone drools over Exile (I prefer Sticky Fingers). IMO the White Album would have been a much better album without the annoying #9, but Exile would have been a much better album if they took the best songs and made it a single LP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say that these bands are among the best ever but I think the guitars were part of the whole pkg and great in the songs but perhaps there are better players in the guitar world is my point cheers and have a great day ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...