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charlie brown
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Well, I'll probably get "Flamed" for this :rolleyes: , but...after watching the reunion DVD,

several times, and then re-listening to old "Live" tracks, of them, in the '60's...

I have to say I STILL prefer their sound, in that era! Gibson's into Marshall's!

What a great, and ballsy sound. That was (IMHO) missing, especially in EC's tone, with

a Strat and Tweed Twin, in the reunion gigs. Their playing was fine, but that "Cream"

sound, to me, was gone. The reunion sound, was more what EC does, in his current tours,

so it was like EC (with Jack & Ginger just contributing). As great as they all were!

 

Jack said, in their rehearsals, that they "tried the old setup with the Marshall's,

and it just didn't work!" Sorry, I don't buy that...I can see how they've (personally)

moved on, in what they "prefer" now, but to say "it just didn't work???" Worked mighty

well, originally! And, in fact it defined their "Live" "Cream" sound, along with their

playing abilities, of course. The "reunion" was simply less raucous, less ballsy, and (to me)

much less satisfying, than the original era "Cream." Much as I loved them getting

back together, at all! I'm just "nit picking," a bit, I guess? [tongue] LOL [biggrin]

 

CB

Edited by charlie brown
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Hey CB!

 

There’s no doubt that they sounded best with Clapton on the SG or 335 with the cranked 1959s

 

I hadn’t heard the part about them trying the Marshalls, though I have watched the DVD several times. I wonder what it was that “didn’t work” about the Marshall setup??

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Playing that loud through that many Celestions and JBLs at their ages would probably have broken Jack's and Eric's backs

right there on stage.

 

rct

 

[biggrin] Well, they have more "roadies" these days, and...if they wanted, more sound baffles,

to save their hearing, as well. I think it's not the volume, I missed, but the actual tone, that

Gibson's into cranked Marshall Plexi amps, produce. And, the more "laid back" version of Crossroads,

has always been a bit disappointing, to me, as well. As nice as the newer version can be. Maybe

OLD "Rockers" need to move on, at some point, to Jazz or traditional blues, instead??? OR, maybe

their fans just need to let them do that?! I don't know... [flapper]:rolleyes:

 

CB

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Hey CB!

 

There’s no doubt that they sounded best with Clapton on the SG or 335 with the cranked 1959s

 

I hadn’t heard the part about them trying the Marshalls, though I have watched the DVD several times. I wonder what it was that “didn’t work” about the Marshall setup??

 

Jack was talking about that, in the "special features" part of that DVD. It's not that I dislike the Reunion concert,

at all! Just didn't sound like "Cream" to me, but more like EC sounds these days...only playing Cream songs. If that

makes any sense? [tongue]

 

 

Edit: I still get "goose bumps" listing to the "Live" record of the "Wheels of Fire" albums.

And, even at 68 years old, now, I STILL have to listen to/turn up "Crossroads" (especially) LOUD, [thumbup] from that album! [biggrin]

 

CB

Edited by charlie brown
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Jack was talking about that, in the "special features" part of that DVD. It's not that I dislike the Reunion concert,

at all! Just didn't sound like "Cream" to me, but more like EC sounds these days...only playing Cream songs. If that

makes any sense? [tongue]

 

CB

Yeah definitely makes sense and I agree.

 

New sounding Clapton + Jack and Ginger was still a million times better than newer Clapton alone [smile]

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I don't know about the problem with Marshalls but as far as the guitars are concerned I've read a couple of times that after EC switched to Fender and having played them for so VERY long he couldn't really get his stuff together properly with a Gibson Les Paul any more.

 

He does still use Gibsons in the studio and for the occasional live cut but he said his fingers don't work as 'naturally' with Gibsons like they used to do in the old days. He has also been diagnosed with Peripheral Neuropathy a few years ago which might have been a long-term undiagnosed and unseen contributing factor to his discomfort during the Reunion tour.

 

EC with 'Blackie', oddly enough, is how I always see him in my mind's eye....

 

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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Yeah, I knew about his diagnosis, but only wondered (a little) if THAT was the reason, or if it was just his own personal

tonal preferences, these days??? I love his "Strat" tone, on certain songs (his or covers), over the years.

 

But, I don't know, "Cream" songs just (for me) tend to need the Gibson/Marshall tone, to sound "right!" [biggrin]

 

 

CB

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I don't know about the problem with Marshalls but as far as the guitars are concerned I've read a couple of times that after EC switched to Fender and having played them for so VERY long he couldn't really get his stuff together properly with a Gibson Les Paul any more.

 

He does still use Gibsons in the studio and for the occasional live cut but he said his fingers don't work as 'naturally' with Gibsons like they used to do in the old days. He has also been diagnosed with Peripheral Neuropathy a few years ago which might have been a long-term undiagnosed and unseen contributing factor to his discomfort during the Reunion tour.

 

EC with 'Blackie', oddly enough, is how I always see him in my mind's eye....

 

Pip.

 

I wonder if the 9.5" radius, is the main factor? :-k Some Strat's have 12" radius fingerboards, like Gibson's. But, I believe the

"Clapton" Strat's have 9.5" radius fingerboards.

 

 

CB

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He does still "Get it together, naturally" on a Gibson 335...as we've seen, in several old and recent

performances! Sounds Great, to me, still! But, maybe he just prefers Fender's to Gibson's, for a

majority of his work, now? For whatever reason. It's all good! My "Cream" sound/tone preference is

just MY preference, for whatever it's worth, anyway. [tongue][biggrin]

 

But, it's always interesting to hear other's opinions, and rationale. [biggrin]

 

 

CB

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I wonder if the 9.5" radius, is the main factor? :-k Some Strat's have 12" radius fingerboards, like Gibson's. But, I believe the

"Clapton" Strat's have 9.5" radius fingerboards....

I don't know about EC but when I was Strat hunting several years back I tried out a handful of 12" radius Strats and REALLY didn't like them at all and ended up with a 9.5" example - which is curious considering my main guitars nowadays are Les Pauls...

 

Subconscious Muscle Memory from 24 years playing my original '64 perhaps......eusa_think.gif......all I know is the 12" did not feel 'right' one tiny bit.

 

Pip.

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I don't know about EC but when I was Strat hunting several years back I tried out a handful of 12" radius Strats and REALLY didn't like them at all and ended up with a 9.5" example - which is curious considering my main guitars nowadays are Les Pauls...

 

Subconscious Muscle Memory from 24 years playing my original '64 perhaps......eusa_think.gif......all I know is the 12" did not feel 'right' one tiny bit.

 

Pip.

 

Interesting! I had a 12" (maple board) radius Strat (Highway One), years ago, and it felt fine, to me.

But, of course, my old "sweetheart" original "L" series 64 Strat, has the 9.5" radius,

which also feels great, to me! So...??? [tongue] I will say, I was "used to" 12"

radius, from my Gibson's, at that time. So, maybe that's why the 12" Strat felt good?

 

CB

Edited by charlie brown
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Interesting! I had a 12" (maple board) radius Strat (Highway One), years ago, and it felt fine, to me. But, of course, my old "sweetheart" original "L" series 64 Strat, has the 9.5" radius, which also feels great, to me! So...??? [tongue] I will say, I was "used to" 12" radius, from my Gibson's, at that time. So, maybe that's why the 12" Strat felt good?...

Hard to know. I certainly don't know why I feel at home with 12" Gibson necks but uncomfortable with 12" Strat necks. Perhaps it has something to do with the relative playing positions / neck angle / curved body-contour (the Strat's - not mine)? I 'wear' my LPs a tad higher than the Strat (and Tele) so perhaps left-arm-wrist-hand-fingers geometry has something to do with it?

 

As a matter of interest (but only if you don't mind telling of course) what serial # is your 'L'? Mine was (still is, I expect!) L16783. Neck stamp 02 Jan 64 B. I sold it 14 years ago this month. Funny the little, insignificant things which can stick in the mind......

 

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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The Cream reunion worked for the UK concerts but not for the USA ones, according to E.C. himself (in the Jack Bruce doc).

They didn't rehearse for the USA ones and it all came unstuck with Ginger getting narked onstage about the volume of Bruce's bass.

 

You can't go back. We'd all like to in some way or other but....not possible.

 

I didn't have an L-series Strat but did have a 1967 big-headstock sunburst r'wood board one, F-plate no.161234.

Sold it to Vintage and Rare in the mid-80s.

Stupid. Must be worth £10k now.

Edited by jdgm
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...Disagree with me if you wish but I never really cared for Clapton's playing with a Strat...

I disagree with you......msp_biggrin.gif......

 

You aren't a fan of Derek and the Dominos, Steve? As a matter of interest is it his tone, playing style, song-selection or 'Other' which you don't like with EC's Strat work?

 

eusa_think.gif

 

Pip.

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I don't know about EC but when I was Strat hunting several years back I tried out a handful of 12" radius Strats and REALLY didn't like them at all and ended up with a 9.5" example - which is curious considering my main guitars nowadays are Les Pauls...

 

Subconscious Muscle Memory from 24 years playing my original '64 perhaps......eusa_think.gif......all I know is the 12" did not feel 'right' one tiny bit.

 

Pip.

 

I think the radius more important than scale and string spacing. My favourite fingerboard is the Hagstrom Deuce's 14" rad.

And of course the classical guitar's is just flat.

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Sure, I liked Derek and the Dominos.

The parts I liked were all done by Duane Allman, though.

That's where the fire was. The live album, without Duane, was kind of mediocre.

 

For your other question, I would say all of the above.

Fair do's.

 

The only output of EC which I really don't like is the 11 year period between 'Backless' and 'Journeyman'. All that 1980's Phil Collins overproduction and crap overtly commercial songs.

There's quite a lot of stuff of his - both before and since - which I also don't much like but I think 'From the Cradle' is, on the whole, one of his best albums ever.

 

Not sure there was a Whole Lotta Strat on it, though...

 

Pip.

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The Cream reunion worked for the UK concerts but not for the USA ones, according to E.C. himself (in the Jack Bruce doc).

They didn't rehearse for the USA ones and it all came unstuck with Ginger getting narked onstage about the volume of Bruce's bass.

 

You can't go back. We'd all like to in some way or other but....not possible.

 

I didn't have an L-series Strat but did have a 1967 big-headstock sunburst r'wood board one, F-plate no.161234.

Sold it to Vintage and Rare in the mid-80s.

Stupid. Must be worth £10k now.

Interesting I hadn’t heard that about the US reunion shows. At the end of the day rehearsing is always more important than the gear haha

 

I like the way Clapton sounded with a Tele in Blind Faith

 

It’s surprising the late 60s Strats aren’t more desirable considering the association with Jimi.

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I did like Clapton on a Strat on the "Clapton" album where he has Leon Russell and Delaney and Bonnie and all the rest.

For whatever reason the sound he got just worked for me on that album. It really cut through the mix.

 

I stumbled upon some clips from the 90s where he was playing both a Strat, a 335 and then slide on some monster hollow body Gibson.

I was kind of nodding off on the Strat bits but when he picked up the 335 and started playing it was NOW I remember why I liked him, that guy can really play!

Good slide work on that big hollow body, that was an unexpected bonus.

 

Speaking of Teles, Roy Buchanon always had such an amazing sound with his Telecaster.

He switches to a Gold Top with humbuckers and same thing. Okay, maybe it's not the guitar...

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...I like the way Clapton sounded with a Tele in Blind Faith...

...It's surprising the late 60s Strats aren't more desirable considering the association with Jimi...

I didn't know he used a Tele on 'Blind Faith'. Interesting!

Back in the day from my earliest 'proper' gigs (1980-ish?) both "Can't Find My Way Home" and "Presence of the Lord" were constants in our set-list.

And in England even late '60s Strats are expensive...

 

I did like Clapton on a Strat on the "Clapton" album where he has Leon Russell and Delaney and Bonnie and all the rest.

For whatever reason the sound he got just worked for me on that album. It really cut through the mix.

 

I stumbled upon some clips from the 90s where he was playing both a Strat, a 335 and then slide on some monster hollow body Gibson.

I was kind of nodding off on the Strat bits but when he picked up the 335 and started playing it was NOW I remember why I liked him, that guy can really play!...

Equally interesting because that's the album which introduced me to JJ Cale ("After Midnight") and I think a lot of the stuff you don't like is (IMO) his 'JJ Cale-influenced' period from '461 Ocean Boulevard' through to 'Another Ticket'.

Oddly enough (carrying on from my above reply to Dub) both 'After Midnight' and 'Blues Power' were also standards on our set-list......msp_blushing.gif......

 

Speaking of Teles, Roy Buchanan always had such an amazing sound with his Telecaster.

He switches to a Gold Top with humbuckers and same thing. Okay, maybe it's not the guitar...

There is a fascinating interview with Joe Bonamassa where (in part) he discusses playing a gig in the Albert Hall with Clapton sitting-in for a track (or two?). They were going to do a track from the 'Beano' (I'm pretty sure it was 'Stepping Out'). For some reason EC was late for the soundcheck but eventually they got together for the soundcheck / rehearsal. On the album (as is well-known) EC played a 'burst through a 30w 2x12 Marshall but for the gig he had a Strat and some Tweed Fenders. JB said that, unbelievably (for him) EC sounded EXACTLY the same as he did on the album. He couldn't believe how a Strat through a Fender could sound the same as a Les Paul through a Marshall. But It Did.

 

As you say; maybe it's not the guitar...

 

msp_smile.gif

 

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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