Guitar Players

[NighthawkChris]

Maybe something that came up in the past, but from my experiences, it seems that the vast majority of guitar players I encounter actually have pretty limited musical theory knowledge. Now, I came from learning piano around 9 years of age, and to me it seems nearly impossible to accomplish great things without understanding how to read a treble and bass clef, know your scales, etc. Basically, I was taught theory and interpretation in the foundation years and it has served me well.

 

Now when I started to play guitar - which was 5 years after I started playing piano - I was equipped with a fair amount of music theory knowledge. I had already a more dexterous approach to fretting since in piano, you use both of your hands independently. I have been thankful that I was encouraged to learn piano at an early age as I believe it has accelerated my guitar playing abilities. Now, I am no prodigy or anything of the sort. My day job is in the software realm and I take care of a family, so music is more of a "hobby" these days.

 

Getting back to guitarists I have generally encountered, it just seems surprising to me that people can play a guitar with virtually no knowledge of music theory... And I also believe that it is MUCH easier to relate the value of musical theory to musical instruments in general when you start to learn on a piano... After all, you have 88 keys which provides a wide range of tones and these are all "linear" as I like to put it. In other words, there is only one note that is C4 for instance whereas in guitar, there are a few fretted notes on different strings that are essentially the same exact tone. I could see how this makes it difficult to learn from the beginning. Also, when I want to figure out which notes have their sharps/flats, it is very clear on a piano. People who have never started on piano or know the notes on a keyboard have difficulties figuring out why E# of Fb is not common to call out. After all, you have the black keys on a piano that sort of clearly show you what notes are easily called #'s or b's. And actually, E# does exist - as F! Whatever on this... Just pointing out how I find it fascinating. Now, there are some exceptional guitarists out there that know every chord in the book and every mode that can be constructed, etc. It just seems that most guitarists like to pick up a guitar and play along with their favorite artists and do so after learning about tabs. And I personally use tabs if they are available as it takes me some time to translate traditional musical nomenclature for playing a guitar as well. I wish I was stronger at reading guitar music "on the clefs" (treble), but I haven't worked on it as much. Although, I completely understand scale construction, chords, etc. I can even name notes in a particular chord just thinking about it. I feel that I have been getting better at identifying a particular fretted note on a particular string and when I want to modulate a chord and play additional harmonies, I just know what note is what degree in a chord and I simply move it...

 

Overall, guitarists are a rare breed. There are great guitarists that have very limited theory knowledge, but exceptional dexterity. And to add to that point, there are pianists/keyboardists around that have not been classically trained that can play some great music as well - even improvise which I find interesting when you have no reason why you play certain notes on certain rhythms. The way I play and interpret, I need to know the chords to understand what leads I can come up with. And again, I am not some gift to the world here, but I do like to embrace the more intellectual piece in the art of music. I suppose my tastes have evolved over the years since learning and it still continues to do so as I spend the years playing both my piano and guitars. So thanks for reading my post. I wonder if my experience is common or not, but I believe that it is common for a vast majority of today's guitarists to just pick up a guitar and learn to play along with their favorite tracks with the aid of tabs. I may have only ran into a couple guitarists in my days - of my age group - that perhaps have a deeper understanding of music theory and integrate it into their playing. But maybe I just haven't ran into that many people after all...

[LP Trad Pro II]

Eddie Van Halen didn't need no theory.

 

But on a serious note, get it. Looking back I would have loved to have learned Music Theory. I'm now in my 50's and Yes I could start, but I really just want to sit and plug in or grab an acoustic and punish it, and not learn what I need do to make an A chord an A minor chord or an A Diminished chord. When I know those chords and if I don't I can look on the web to find 8 variations on that chord. I just sit and use tabs to play stuff.

[zigzag]

We've had this discussion many times on this forum. Most seem to feel that knowledge of theory doesn't seem to be a real advantage in playing the types of music they play... that learning songs is more important than learning theory. IMO, knowing theory (including scales/modes) and how to read notation makes learning songs and improvisation a lot easier and faster. Taking lessons motivated me to practice. The secret to becoming good is spending time on the instrument. Having an aptitude and natural talent sure helps, but practice is the key to maximizing potential.

 

Learning theory on piano first is easier in some respects, but harder in others. As you said, piano is linear and all the keys are laid out there right in front of you. But, changing keys is not as easy for a pianist. Changing keys for a guitar player simply means moving up or down on the neck. I used to try to jam new music with a classically trained pianist. He had to have the music in front of him, and he spent most of his time analyzing it. So we really didn't spend much time "jamming." All I needed was the key, the changes, and a knowledge of the melody, and I could go from there.

 

Miles Davis once said, "I'll play it first, then I'll tell you what it is." Nobody knew theory better than Miles. Theory is a way of explaining music. The lesson is that music is a language. The better your vocabulary, the more intuitive it becomes, and the easier it is to say what you want to say.

[LP Trad Pro II]

We've had this discussion many times on this forum. Most seem to feel that knowledge of theory doesn't seem to be a real advantage in playing the types of music they play... that learning songs is more important than learning theory. IMO, knowing theory (including scales/modes) and how to read notation makes learning songs and improvisation a lot easier and faster. Taking lessons motivated me to practice. The secret to becoming good is spending time on the instrument. Having an aptitude and natural talent sure helps, but practice is the key to maximizing potential.

 

Learning theory on piano first is easier in some respects, but harder in others. As you said, piano is linear and all the keys are laid out there right in front of you. But, changing keys is not as easy for a pianist. Changing keys for a guitar player simply means moving up or down on the neck. I used to try to jam new music with a classically trained pianist. He had to have the music in front of him, and he spent most of his time analyzing it. So we really didn't spend much time "jamming." All I needed was the key, the changes, and a knowledge of the melody, and I could go from there.

 

Miles Davis once said, "I'll play it first, then I'll tell you what it is." Nobody knew theory better than Miles. Theory is a way of explaining music. The lesson is that music is a language. The better your vocabulary, the more intuitive it becomes, and the easier it is to say what you want to say.

Miles besides being a great band leader and great horn player did attended Julliard. I've that heard that about classically trained musicians. They have no clue how to improvise and have to read the music to play it. Which is impressive. But music has to have soul and some imperfections to make it interesting.

[MichaelT]

I took piano lessons from 2nd to 5th grade. Picked up a guitar in 6th. When I took lessons, I learned to read music, and I think I had about 6 theory books I worked through, in addition to the guitar books and other stuff the teacher would teach me. Part of the condition for me taking lessons was that my parents said I had to learn everything. So I did my best to learn, taking lessons from different teachers and taking lessons while giving lessons. I learned theory, music reading, ear training, classical guitar and how to just jam and play songs. I went to Musician's Institute in Hollyweird, CA in 1989 and there was lots of theory and reading there.

 

In my experience, guitarists are either very serious about learning everything about their instrument and be proficient (shredder-like) and some just love to play songs. I taught my students how to read music, some theory, how to read tab, how to learn songs and develop ear training. I also taught them how to string their guitar and set intonation on electric guitar, if they had a guitar capable and if they were old enough to do it themselves.

 

There's lots of people who say they can play and never took a lesson and picked it up on their own. Everyone learned something from someone. But, I've played with lots of musicians who can't read music, can't tell you what key you're in but can play the song and a pretty good lead guitar part and different chord voicings, just because they focus on sounding good and playing rather than the theory behind it. I like the best of all worlds.

[zigzag]

Miles besides being a great band leader and great horn player did attended Julliard.

 

Yes, but he dropped out after a year or so saying that there was nothing else they could teach him.

 

It is also worth noting that Wes Montgomery said that he was not formally trained and didn't know theory, and most people will tell you he was the best jazz guitarist around. If you listen to him talk about his music, it is obvious that he knew a lot of theory, but mainly from relating it to other musicians and they to him.

[zigzag]

I think that most kids don't realize how hard playing guitar is. If I were to teach kids, I'd start by teaching them easier songs they liked and work theory in after they were motivated to learn it.

[LP Trad Pro II]

Yes, but he dropped out after a year or so saying that there was nothing else they could teach him.

 

It is also worth noting that Wes Montgomery said that he was not formally trained and didn't know theory, and most people will tell you he was the best jazz guitarist around. If you listen to him talk about his music, it is obvious that he knew a lot of theory, but mainly from relating it to other musicians and they to him.

Yes I know he dropped out, but the fact that he got in to that iconic institution is impressive enough. Here are some. Most had pretty decent musical careers. #4 is my fav. I think they got the wrong guy for #3.

 

https://www.joytunes.com/blog/music-fun/15-famous-musicians-totally-self-taught/

[Karloff]

certainly can't argue that knowledge isn't a good thing. i played piano from 7 to 9 yrs old. played trombone in school (I wanted to play drums) from 9 to 14. I was so lazy I never bothered learning what the notes were. I could look at them on the staff and know where they were on the instrument but I didn't have a clue what key I was in or anything. In the school band I would just listen to the rest of the band in order to tell what I should be doing on the trombone as far as sharps & flats, and I would just remember.

so out of laziness I developed a really good ear and also learned something I didn't realize until much later when I began playing guitar in bands, that it is as much if not more important to listen to everyone else or the overall sound to find where you fit into the big musical picture as it is to just listen to yourself hammer away on a riff and a few chords. in '74 I traded the trombone in on a '72 Strat. started taking lessons. finally cared enough to learn basic theory, notes, keys ... and I still have the Strat. BUT ! I'd love to have a much better understanding of overall theory. I don't need it to play what I play but it would be nice.

[zigzag]

https://www.joytunes.com/blog/music-fun/15-famous-musicians-totally-self-taught/

 

I think some of that may be misleading. Dizzy Gillespie taught himself, but he attended Laurinburg Institute in NC on a music scholarship. Some of these guys played in high school bands taught by band directors or sang in church choirs where they were taught how notation works.

 

Jaco Pastorius, perhaps the greatest bass player ever in any genre, was self taught, and actually taught music, without a degree, at the University of Miami where he had students some older than he was. And being self taught means he taught himself theory and how to read notation.

[jdgm]

Drummers.........

[Twang Gang]

A little late in on this thread but hopefully have something to add. IMO there are the theorists who know what they are doing and why (notes, keys, scales etc.) and those that play by "ear".

 

I am of the latter, and self taught on guitar. I can hear what's going on in a band and fit in. After 50 some years of playing I know what chords I'm playing, and what key I'm in, but cannot read a lick of notation for guitar. When I was a kid I played clarinet only from written music. Couldn't play a lick without the music in front of me. Moved away to a place where there was no school band, and gave up clarinet for guitar. It's really hard to sing along and play clarinet at the same time :)

 

I also sing lead in most bands I've been in, and am pretty good at harmonizing, but again don't read a note of music and don't generally know if I am a third above, or a fifth above, I just sing it and know if it sounds right. My current band mate that backs me up vocally has a more limited range that I do, so sometimes the high harmony he can't reach. I will sing the lead (melody) until it gets to the harmony part, then I will switch to the higher part for that harmonized section and then come back down to continue the melody. I have no idea what I'm doing technically, but I can hear it in my head and make it come out in the right place.

 

I believe some of the "ear" ability is hereditary. My Grandmother on my Mom's side could sing beautifully and play a button box (like an accordion, but no keys) - never had a lesson in her life, couldn't read music at all. My Mom also had a nice singing voice and played piano (reading music). I seemed to have inherited something from them. My sister on the other hand plays piano (reading music) but has no ear for it at all, and it sounds very mechanical. It's like she is a slave to the notes on the clef, and can't really listen to what she is doing while she is playing.

 

So I think some people have a good ear for music, and others have good technical/theory skills. The greatest musicians probably have both.

[Pinch]

Interesting post, Chris!

 

First off, the piano thing is interesting. It's only lately I've realized how important it is that your picking hand is extremely well coordinated with your fretting hand - something which apparently comes naturally to people who were taught piano before guitar. Look at James Hetfield - this is also something he's always pointed out.

 

I call this life lesson "All that adolescence, and all that Internet, and I still didn't fully realize the importance of one's right hand".

 

I've taken some music theory classes in the past, but have to admit that I do not remember that much of them. They definitely help with my playing, though, because even if I don't know the term for everything, I kind of know what notes go with what notes. Or so I like to think.

 

There's this notion that theory will kill feel. Let's apply that in practical terms. I've worked on arpeggios and all that stuff lately. It's safe to say I don't have a flair for it, nor am I particularly interested in listening to, or playing, arpeggio-sweep-thisthatortheother neoclassical shredding. I did it purely to improve picking technique.

 

And as much as I'd like to totally trash the notion that theory and theory in practise kills feel, after a week of pretending I was Marty and Yngwie, failing abysmally, it took some time to get back to my regular, more bluesy feel.

 

But here's the thing: once I DID get back to it, it sounded better than before. Because just as I'd intended, practising all this stuff I didn't even really care for had had its intended effect: better picking.

 

I feel the same way about music theory. It's possibly possible to get lost in it to the detriment of "feeling", but it never hurts to have a few extra tricks up your sleeve. Focus on your favorite type of playing, but utilize other techniques/actual theory to your benefit.

[kidblast]

I've always been able to read music, and I've spent quite a few years teaching, so there's some of this stuff (re Theory and all) that you sort of NEED to know about to do that.

I'm not a PH-D in music, but I do know my way around the theory too. I can't read as good as some people I know. The music director down at our catholic Church is incredible. he reads score like I read a news paper. Of course, he holds masters degree in music, so there's THAT! Just working with him for the past few years now has brought a lot of it back to the front of my head.

 

Started playing piano (I mean, seriously trying to do it right...) must been,, 15 years ago now? I always dabbled and have arsed knew my way around, but at one point I decided I wanted to just go all in. Clearly one definitely needs the reading and theory skills. I was able to use a lot of what I've known that helped jump start the journey down the roads with 88 keys. It's a bit of a struggle sometimes to find the time to devote to both instruments. But it is true that the piano does seem to demand a bit more discipline for me than guitar which I've been playing just about all my life.

 

And as a guitarist, it sort of depends on what you're called to do. There are times when I do HAVE to sight read on guitar. At first it was a wake up call. but now, it has become much easier. The more you do it, the easier it is. if you don't use it, practice at it, you will loose it..

[saturn]

I'll admit I didn't read all the responses, because I'm at work. Maybe I'm repeating?

 

For all intents, I only play guitar. Know a little uke and banjo, but they are variations of a guitar. Anyway. I know some theory and can read music if I study it and count staff lines. But for me and many other guitarists, it's easier to do the lazy thing and learn shapes and patterns.

 

If I know enough to know there is no B sharp or E sharp, I can just learn a chord shape (major, minor, diminished...whatever) and move it up or down the neck. If I know how to bar a Cmaj7 on the third fret, I know if I go 2 frets higher the same shape is Dmaj7. Same with scales and box patterns. I can get by without thinking about all the different notes that make up the chord shape or scale I'm playing. Just remember the patterns and where they go. Now, if I sit and concentrate, I could name all the notes I'm playing, and where the third, fifth etc. is, but most times I don't bother.

[american cheez]

some people are just more...visceral. guitar is an instrument that those people can really express themselves with. it's the entire reason we rock, when we do. rock comes from that place inside of us, and we all have that inside of us. it's why we can relate when someone is rockin out. you can listen to mozart or beethoven, or those type of guys and appreciate what they do, but it will never reach that place inside of you that angus, or jimi or gilmour can. i love listening to yo yo ma. i find some of his music soooo moving. but i never feel what i do when i listen to nugent play heads will roll. guitar is a blunt instrument of music, for when we just want to bang on stuff.

 

when i was a kid just starting out on my guitar journey, i went to two formal lessons. the first one, the guy was trying to show me theory, and my eyes glazed over and my brain shut right off. when i came back, i told the guy, i didn't want to know all that nerd stuff. i just wanted to rock right now. didn't this guy understand there was a whole world of girls out there who needed to see how cool i was? anyhow, he showed me one lick that was beyond my ability, i suppose to re enforce his idea that i needed to know some theory. i never went back. instead, i just sat in the basement playing along to all of my fav records over and over and over until i wore holes in them.

here i am 36 years later, i still don't know any of that stuff. but boy howdy i sure had a good time along the way!

[Retired]

AT 13, My cousin taught me to play guitar at 13. Never played piano or any other instrument. He played in a band that was very good and he couldn't read a note. So before he went to Vietnam, he was showing me how to put a record on and pick it out and then play along. Thats how I learned. Couldn't read a note or tell you what music theory was. Later, another cousin came along and my lessons improved. He showed me how to read notes and play more chords. I still have a book that shows all the chords on the neck and all the notes up and down. When I quit playing all those years, much was forgotten and when I picked it up again I learned tabs, thats so much easier and I learned lots of songs and today if I want to play along a CD, I put it on and play along. Even Guitar Tricks that I'm signed up with just has a teacher that shows you the finger positions on the frets and I pick that up very fast. So for playing alone at home it works fine for me as both my cousins that taught me are both dead and it was fun getting together with them both and playing together while it lasted. Well? I do have a Uncle alive that wants me to play with him out and about and he played on stage but he only plays Country and that, I'm not interested in.

[Black Dog]

I first tried to learn guitar when i was 12 or 13 too. But, I didn't have any friends who could teach me. My parents took me down to the local music shop and I got a black "les paul". It wasn't a Gibson, no idea what it was. I think it cost around 60-70 bucks. No amp. I played it through my stereo. It sounded terrible.

 

I started taking lessons and the teacher started with basics and theory. He refused to throw me a bone and teach my anything the least bit fun. I don't think the word fun was even part of his vocabulary. Sadly, I didn't have a good enough ear to pick things up myself so I gave up.

 

A few years ago I decided I would try again. Times had changed. I bought a Epiphone LP studio from Amazon and went to the internet.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that knowledge of theory would be helpful. I have studied some and I go back to it from time to time, but I know very little. But with the magic of the internet and specifically YouTube, I have notes, scales, cords and entire songs from beginning to end, demonstrated and explained.

 

I remember learning a song from a YouTube channel and the guy demonstrates the cord he is playing and says "I don't know what this cord is but this is how you play it".

 

Anyway, now I can learn songs and have fun with relative ease. It's like music for dummies!

[jdgm]

I was forced to learn piano from an early age; in those days if you made a mistake, the teacher smashed you over the knuckles with a thick wooden ruler. Not the best way to encourage a 7-year old; I gave it up as soon as I was allowed.

When I went on to the big school and got asked if I would like to learn (classical) guitar, I remembered the ruler and said no, even though by then I wanted to play rock and blues guitar like my heroes did.

On my 21st birthday I got £30 - quite a lot in 1975 - and immediately went to Maxwell's music shop in Woking, bought a Yamaha FG180 and the 2 Johnny Smith books. Since then I learned technique, and I have got pretty good technique in some areas of playing guitar - good enough so that I taught it for over a decade, without hitting my students when they made mistakes.

Now I am finally trying to learn MUSIC, or musical language.

I read music a bit and sometimes practice that and get better at it, but if you don't follow through, keep up the practice and use it....well your musical goals change as you get older.

These days I just want to play well - which is hard enough.

[Retired]

I first tried to learn guitar when i was 12 or 13 too. But, I didn't have any friends who could teach me. My parents took me down to the local music shop and I got a black "les paul". It wasn't a Gibson, no idea what it was. I think it cost around 60-70 bucks. No amp. I played it through my stereo. It sounded terrible.

 

I started taking lessons and the teacher started with basics and theory. He refused to throw me a bone and teach my anything the least bit fun. I don't think the word fun was even part of his vocabulary. Sadly, I didn't have a good enough ear to pick things up myself so I gave up.

 

A few years ago I decided I would try again. Times had changed. I bought a Epiphone LP studio from Amazon and went to the internet.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that knowledge of theory would be helpful. I have studied some and I go back to it from time to time, but I know very little. But with the magic of the internet and specifically YouTube, I have notes, scales, cords and entire songs from beginning to end, demonstrated and explained.

 

I remember learning a song from a YouTube channel and the guy demonstrates the cord he is playing and says "I don't know what this cord is but this is how you play it".

 

Anyway, now I can learn songs and have fun with relative ease. It's like music for dummies!

Ha Ha, I learned Stairway To Heaven off the Net. Took it one lesson at a time and then bought a led Zeppelin music book that came with a DVD. Put it in and played along with it for timing and it sounded good.

 

 

 

[Black Dog]

Ha Ha, I learned Stairway To Heaven off the Net. Took it one lesson at a time and then bought a led Zeppelin music book that came with a DVD. Put it in and played along with it for timing and it sounded good.

 

 

 

 

And many others!

 

 

 

[Pinch]

Hi Pinch,

 

Thanks for the feedback! I appreciate it. Anyhow, my take on theory is not to get too fixated on it and be cut-and-dry with everything you do. Rather it is a tool that you may use to better understand arrangements and such. It takes time to learn as the whole picture starts to come into clarity once one spends more time on it and has conversations with others that can share the knowledge clearly. I was turned on to this when I started to understand WHY a chord is termed to be a 7th chord, 9th chord, 11th, etc. Then it starts to get REAL interesting. Again, when yo are looking for a good method to color up your music, it helps to understand what you are doing.

 

Regarding certain techniques, there's no substitute for practice I say. If someone needs to learn better techniques and the sort, it just takes time. Of course as I have learned over the years, it pays to do things correctly per instruction rather than work on something the wrong way for a long time and have to un-learn something to correct the flaws. As well, when you practice something "wrong" on the piano, you can do some serious damage to your hand muscles - like a Chopin etude (op.10 no.4 - OUCH!). I suppose you can do this with guitar too, but I have never felt fatigue in my hands before like I have felt after playing piano...

 

Overall, musical instrument accomplishment is like playing darts IMHO. You know what you want to hit and have a rock-solid strategy. The difficulty is implementing that and actually hitting what you are looking at. So I say that with music, to be accomplished and add more sophistication, you have to have the roughly 25% theory down, and the rest is actually having the "chops" to implement it. You could know all the theory in the world, but if you never physically realize it, it will serve no purpose. This is just my take on it mind you...

 

You're welcome. And I agree with everything you said there.

[Pinch]

I first tried to learn guitar when i was 12 or 13 too. But, I didn't have any friends who could teach me. My parents took me down to the local music shop and I got a black "les paul". It wasn't a Gibson, no idea what it was. I think it cost around 60-70 bucks. No amp. I played it through my stereo. It sounded terrible.

 

I started taking lessons and the teacher started with basics and theory. He refused to throw me a bone and teach my anything the least bit fun. I don't think the word fun was even part of his vocabulary. Sadly, I didn't have a good enough ear to pick things up myself so I gave up.

 

A few years ago I decided I would try again. Times had changed. I bought a Epiphone LP studio from Amazon and went to the internet.

 

I have no doubt whatsoever that knowledge of theory would be helpful. I have studied some and I go back to it from time to time, but I know very little. But with the magic of the internet and specifically YouTube, I have notes, scales, cords and entire songs from beginning to end, demonstrated and explained.

 

I remember learning a song from a YouTube channel and the guy demonstrates the cord he is playing and says "I don't know what this cord is but this is how you play it".

 

Anyway, now I can learn songs and have fun with relative ease. It's like music for dummies!

 

 

I learned to play before the Internet, and let me tell you, I've gotten a lot better thanks to YouTube lessons.

 

I love YouTube.

[saturn]

I took piano lessons from 2nd to 5th grade. Picked up a guitar in 6th. When I took lessons, I learned to read music, and I think I had about 6 theory books I worked through, in addition to the guitar books and other stuff the teacher would teach me. Part of the condition for me taking lessons was that my parents said I had to learn everything. So I did my best to learn, taking lessons from different teachers and taking lessons while giving lessons. I learned theory, music reading, ear training, classical guitar and how to just jam and play songs. I went to Musician's Institute in Hollyweird, CA in 1989 and there was lots of theory and reading there.

 

In my experience, guitarists are either very serious about learning everything about their instrument and be proficient (shredder-like) and some just love to play songs. I taught my students how to read music, some theory, how to read tab, how to learn songs and develop ear training. I also taught them how to string their guitar and set intonation on electric guitar, if they had a guitar capable and if they were old enough to do it themselves.

 

There's lots of people who say they can play and never took a lesson and picked it up on their own. Everyone learned something from someone. But, I've played with lots of musicians who can't read music, can't tell you what key you're in but can play the song and a pretty good lead guitar part and different chord voicings, just because they focus on sounding good and playing rather than the theory behind it. I like the best of all worlds.

 

I remember when I was a teenager learning to play guitar. My grandmother was the piano player at her church. As little as I knew at that time, she would be amazed that I could just start playing things on guitar with no sheet music in front of me. She could play almost any piece of music, even if she had never heard it before, simply by playing to the sheet music. But except for a few very standard songs like "Joy To The World" or Happy Birthday, she could not play anything without the sheet music.

 

 

 

[Rabs]

I also sort of learned to play piano first or keyboards anyway... I was bought a Casio keyboard when I was about 9.. You know the ones with a 4 second sampler and had all those horrible pre set beats (bossa nova was fun :) ).. Of course because it had a sampler I was more interested in burping into it and playing burp scales :D haha.... But I did actually manage to learn (I cant remember how now) chopsticks and The Entertainer... When I went to secondary school (or high school to you US people) we had music lessons on Keyboards and I was already quite good at it...

 

Then my mum, who wanted at least one member of the family to learn music forced me to take up classical guitar which was also taught at school.. I didn't want to at the time and was actually taught how to read music and do proper finger style with bass and treble bits.. And remember my first songs I learned were Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and Bah Bah Black Sheep..... I can still play Greensleeves to this day :)

 

The thing is after a year or so I stopped doing that (I was expelled from that school ) and then didn't play for a few years and in that time totally forgot how to read music.. Then I started getting in to rock and wanted to learn to play again but totally taught myself at that point.. However, those early lessons had taught me a lot about timing and I took to it very quickly from that point (well the rhythm side of things anyway), joined a band at college etc etc then I sort of stopped playing for a while when my career took off... It was only in my mid to late 30s when I came on this forum and started reading stuff on the net when I started exploring stuff like pentatonic scales and paid any attention at all to the technical aspects of guitars.