BluesKing777 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I recorded a similar backing 4 times with different equipment with some recent purchases! So to extract my money's worth, here is a little quiz.... Can you tell which is which or what? So, it is my 59 LG3 recorded with (not in this order) a mic, 2 soundhole pickups and an undersaddle pickup run through Tonedexter. Mic: Neumann KM184 Soundhole pickup: Bagg M80 Soundhole pickup: Schertler Mag + S Mic Undersaddle pickup: Martin thinline passive through Tonedexter wavemap....... https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/lg3x3777 BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 Need photos to help? My fab 1959 Gibson LG3: BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickthemiller Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Soundhole. Undersaddle. Mic. Soundhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'll play - I say mic, schertler, undersaddle with tonedexter, Baggs M80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Trick question All the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Wegen. Bluechip. Primetone. Tortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 A couple of you should report to the headmaster....again.... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 This is fun! #1 - M80 #2 - Schertler Mag + S Mic #3 - Neumann KM184 #4 - Undersaddle I really had troubles with the first 3. The only one I would bet my lunch on is #4. How Ironic would it be if that one ended up being the Neumann. I'll share why when you divulge the info. I switched #2 and #3 twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickthemiller Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 A couple of you should report to the headmaster....again.... BluesKing777. Sir, sir, sir please sir, when will you do your marking, sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Trick question All the same It was a trick question. They're in the order he said they weren't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'd say the first one is the thinline and the last one is the Neuman. The centre two are soundhole pickups I just don't know which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 OK, are we all in and done? (Auctioneer speak?) I will take the fun out of it : 1. Schertler Magnetico + S Mic 2. Neumann KM184 3. Martin Thinline undersaddle to Tonedexter. 4. Baggs M80. Apologies for the gain stage error - I had 'record' on pause and then the last 2 were double the volume of the first 2, so I went by 'ear' for levels... BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I'm not sure which I'm more surprised at. The Baggs M80 sounding like it has that Piezo quack to it or the presence and front-to-back positing in the sound field Piezo and Tone Dexter had. The latter actually made me think you had close-mic'd the Neumann and created some proximity effect. A fun little exercise. Thanks for sharing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 1. Schertler Magnetico + S Mic 2. Neumann KM184 3. Martin Thinline undersaddle to Tonedexter. 4. Baggs M80. That's what I was thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I'm surprised at the M80! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Ok so now that we know what is what - how about a little compare and contrast. I've got my thoughts - and I expect they're all wrong, not afraid of any correction - but here's my take-aways: 1) I feel the Neumann Mic should be the baseline, section 2 of the recording. 2) The jobs of the other 3 then (my assumption) is to replicate the sound of the Mic... (if the goal is raw guitar replication) 3) Per listening - I believe the schertler came closest to replicating, the mic 4) I would have expected the tone dexter to be closer, but there's a little 'electric' sound to it to me, especially in that little led zepplinish riff right in the middle (i.e. @2:06) 5) Visually, looking at the soundcloud music profile, I would have expected the Baggs to be closest, but it has the most 'electric' sound of them all to me. What does the schertler look like, (I'm picturing something w/ a little mic boom) seems like I need one, but really don't want to look anymore like a wanker than I already do... (can we say wanker here?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 Ok so now that we know what is what - how about a little compare and contrast. I've got my thoughts - and I expect they're all wrong, not afraid of any correction - but here's my take-aways: 1) I feel the Neumann Mic should be the baseline, section 2 of the recording. 2) The jobs of the other 3 then (my assumption) is to replicate the sound of the Mic... (if the goal is raw guitar replication) 3) Per listening - I believe the schertler came closest to replicating, the mic 4) I would have expected the tone dexter to be closer, but there's a little 'electric' sound to it to me, especially in that little led zepplinish riff right in the middle (i.e. @2:06) 5) Visually, looking at the soundcloud music profile, I would have expected the Baggs to be closest, but it has the most 'electric' sound of them all to me. What does the schertler look like, (I'm picturing something w/ a little mic boom) seems like I need one, but really don't want to look anymore like a wanker than I already do... (can we say wanker here?) Neumann advertise the mic (KM184) as the mic for 'recording the acoustic guitar as it is' and dead flat eq wise. Other mics get more bass or treble or.... Now, this mic will also pick up the lady singing down the street while hanging out the washing, so it cold never be used at a live gig. Whereas we are told that the Baggs M80 will have trouble feeding back even if we want it to... And...the Tonedexter could have sounded better but after I recorded the previous 2, I did a chord or 2 through TD and it was really loud, twice as loud as the mic. I should have turned the gain down on TD AND the mixer but my quick fix to get the same volume level was to turn down the Master Volume. Which is why it is slightly distorted, I think. But 400 hundred zillion acoustic guitarists can't be wrong so if I was playing tonight at a bar, the Baggs M80 would be the choice, not perfectly acoustic sounding but...easy to take, easy to plug, easy to play.... They all sound different through an acoustic amp. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 Ok BK - so a little homework for you (only if interested) - recreate this, but just with the Neumann Mic and Tonedexter set ups, but really be careful w/ the tone dexter. I'd like to see how close it gets, both soundwise, and visual i.e. as seen on a soundcloud clip No worries if not, just making sure I'm focusing my GAS in the right direction :) (K&K + Tonedexter) I do not believe you've got any guitars w/ a K&K, but if you do and could use that one - I'll buy you a beer (or bourbon if that's your choice) next time I'm in town! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 Ok BK - so a little homework for you (only if interested) - recreate this, but just with the Neumann Mic and Tonedexter set ups, but really be careful w/ the tone dexter. I'd like to see how close it gets, both soundwise, and visual i.e. as seen on a soundcloud clip No worries if not, just making sure I'm focusing my GAS in the right direction :) (K&K + Tonedexter) I do not believe you've got any guitars w/ a K&K, but if you do and could use that one - I'll buy you a beer (or bourbon if that's your choice) next time I'm in town! I can do that, but it will be with my Waterloo guitar with K&K. I don’t have a K&K’d Gibson. You need to understand the reasoning for a Tonedexter, because people will always say they liked a Soundcloud mic test better...... Piezo pickups can sound quacky and harsh without preamp help. My K&K is way nicer than a Fishman undersaddle raw, and this makes a better demo of the extremes than a K&K guitar. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 So here you are Billroy, a test recording as requested. The meanspirited part of me was thinking I should make you guess which is which, in the spirit of the thread! [smile] But no, here is my Waterloo WL-14X recorded 4 ways, same tune as earlier..sort of. 1. Neumann KM184 2. K&K direct to mixer 3. K&K to Tonedexter to mixer 4. K&K to Tonedexter with reverb added on the mixer: https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/wl14xkk-td77e And...... For the gluttons for punishment, I recorded the same tune on the same guitar with my soundhole pickups... 1. Baggs M80 2. Schertler Mag + S Mic 3. Fishman Rare Earth Blend - full mag setting 4. Fishman Rare Earth Blend - 70% mic - 30% mag. https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/wl14xkk-td77f All had reverb from mixer and the Fishman Pro-EQ for tidying the boom...like this: And with help from out new doggy rescue, Jazz the Wonderdog: BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 BK - huge thanks to you (and Jazz the wonderdog). I do like the K&K + TD (and think I like it better w/o reverb, not sure yet). On your second grouping of items, really like the schertler with both Mag and Mic - but didn't I hear folks saying because of feedback with the mic, they usually keep it on 100% mag? (which sounded pretty good as well). Really appreciate you doing this! Rgds - billroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 Thanks Billroy. None of the setups were intended by the designers to be recorded direct to computer - the full, brutal truth! Others can explain but they all sound really different in an acoustic amp. The Baggs M80 is probably better in an amp - I had my amp up on half, getting pretty loud, and no feedback. The Schertler started to howl at 10 o’clck on the dial but I tweaked the notch filter on the Pro EQ and it cut it - don’t leave home without it! I would use the Tonedexter direct to a mixer and a PA....it is much more ‘hi fi’ in the flesh. I am really happy with the Baggs M80 after a week of torturing it. It doesn’t really sound fully acoustic but I’m liking the sounds. Don’t know why. And it is a really easy pickup to use. (Of course, the mic is unlikely to go anywhere but the music room. It picks up everything....clothes, breathing, dogs, birds etc....absolutely hopeless at a crowded gig.) BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 More from Jazz the Wonderdog? Cross of Australian Cattle Dog with Staffordshire Bull Terrier. (The rescue people think). Whatever, she is incredibly smart. Explaining things to us already after a few weeks! If you look at the photo below blown up you can see the stitches on her right leg where it meets her body - there was a shotgun pellet in there...... At the lake: BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Hey BK - when you're doing these recordings of different set ups, what are you using to do the recordings themselves. Also, are you doing 4 different recordings and then splicing them together, or is it one recording paused while you change the set up? Rgds - billroy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Hey BK - when you're doing these recordings of different set ups, what are you using to do the recordings themselves. Also, are you doing 4 different recordings and then splicing them together, or is it one recording paused while you change the set up? Rgds - billroy Ha, my music room (cave) is like sitting in a space capsule: face front: office chair, music stand, mic stands x2, acoustic amp, preamps on floor, power point with 6 points and surge protection. To left: guitar racks, amp. To right: desk with printer, stack of music, Allen & Heath Zed60-fx 4 channel mixer with usb out to ancient iMac using Garageband. While strapped in seat, I can read and play music, alter preamp settings, lean to the right and the mixer is normally set up with 2 xlr plugs from the Boss VE8, 1 xlr plug from my Neumann KM184 mic, 1 xlr/1/4” guitar type plug for guitar direct from pickups etc. So the tests in the tracks recorded use all the inputs of my mixer, running direct to my iMac via usb, recorded in Garageband. (Pause pressed while I swapped setups). And don’t anybody move anything in my cave! [scared] BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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