my acoustic roadmap

[QuestionMark]

Accumulator, collector. Semantics. Or a bit of denial in one and intent in the other...but basically the same coin. Am sure if your wife told you to stop accumulating guitars, you’d probably counter with something about being a collector. In my case, my wife gets a new piece of jewelry whenever I buy another guitar. 😄 She understands I’m collecting guitars.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[tpbiii]

Tom / ZW,

 

Just wondering... are there any out there you still long for, or do you just see how opportunity happens?

 

(and ps - this is my internal thought process looking at your pictures ;) geeze i'd like some time trying out those j's, a good chunk of time, each one needs some good time. that one in the middle, in front of the natural one, has a big neck - gotta try that one. I hope tom has recently changed all the strings (and likes PB). well yeah but look at those small bodied ones - they deserve their due - gotta make sure to allocate time to them, what songs should I have ready for them? I do hope zombie's at the party because he's got a cf100 and 12 string I want to try... those 2 at least, and then - well I got to go back to those j's, those j's need a lot of time. I might of had too much coffee this morning...

 

 

- billroy

 

Well, because we are retired, we can spend a great deal of time doing music in one way or another. There are a lot of people out there who love various kinds of guitars, and they form a number of groupings -- bluegrass, flat pickers, folkies, finger stylists, blues players, ragtime pickers, chett/merle/jimmy style, .... We populate our life by being sort of members of all those groups. Also BG banjo, clawhammer banjo, and stroke style (minstrel) style and (OMG) harmonica. We don't do any of it all that well, but we do strive for adequacy (often failing) in many musical things. We also love to sing and harmonize.

 

I have bad news on the string front however. We do not use PB. Only uncoated bulk 80/20 bronze. Coating always gives something away -- which is a bad thing to do to great guitar -- and when playing PB, I feel I hear too much of the strings and not the instrument. This is learned effect, so I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I am always disappointment when someone hands me a great guitar with PB. Sorry -- so I guess you won't be coming?

 

One thing we like to do is for our friends who are also accomplished musicians to come and demo the instruments as they sample them. We have a recording setup designed to specifically get a faithful sound reproduction -- I know we have talked about this off grid.

 

Here are some flatpicking demos from David Dugas and Tony Watt. Quite a few Js in that mix. Here is one we did last spring with our friend George Hergen -- folk singer at large. No Js there, but good stuff in a different style. And so it goes.

 

Like the woof, we have a soft place in our hearts for lesser guitars. Some are not so lesser -- listen to the Belltone being played by Tony Watt. But sometimes power is not what you want. We often play with a great flatpicker who basically always plugged in in his later life -- so his right hand never learned to drag out the sound needed to fit well in a power session. Of course good players modulate, but still it is not really quite the same. So a good solution is to do backup with a less powerful guitar. One of our favorites in this regards is our 62 Hummingbird with it broad full sound.

 

Here is our 60s folk style with the 62 Hummingbird -- to my ear a good match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6w8A9A9Yh00&feature=youtu.be

 

Here is some bluegrass with instruments that don't overpower the room -- 62 Hummingbird, 1/4 Kay bass, and a 1930 Larson set up for folk (low action, very light strings). With that balance our lead guitar works fine -- with a 3/4 Kay and 35 D-28, the room would have been overpowered -- when you run acoustic, you have to worry about such things.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIqEQetfTTQ&feature=youtu.be

 

Finally here is our newest addition to the guitars we play. I bought it 15 years ago at a garage sale for $25. This year I spend ten time that much to bring it back to life -- neck set, frets, fretboard work, and repaired bridgeplate. It is a c. 1950 Kay -- 17" solid top guitar. It is a surprisingly powerful guitar -- not unlike late 50s Gibsons -- that fills the tone space sort of like a poor man's SJ-100. All summer we run an open jam session at a Farmers Market. We get all kinds of people and music at different times. One of our favorite is when good harmony singers come by, and we get some full three and four part harmonies going. This guitar seems perfect for that -- fills the background without interfering with the harmonies.

 

I have been saying for awhile that many vintage guitars are perfect -- just not for the same thing.

 

Let's pick,

-Tom

[uncle fester]

BillRoy-am wondering if perhaps you are confusing guitar collecting (or vintage guitar collecting) with playing guitar.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

y

 

I don't think so. Granted my delusion was of playing a path through the other's collections, but I understand the difference in the two. - just making fun crossing story lines. I have to imagine though, it's fund to collect, but I do hope there's a level of playing what's collected seeing as what individually awesome all the instruments are.

[QuestionMark]

Well, because we are retired, we can spend a great deal of time doing music in one way or another. There are a lot of people out there who love various kinds of guitars, and they form a number of groupings -- bluegrass, flat pickers, folkies, finger stylists, blues players, ragtime pickers, chett/merle/jimmy style, .... We populate our life by being sort of members of all those groups. Also BG banjo, clawhammer banjo, and stroke style (minstrel) style and (OMG) harmonica. We don't do any of it all that well, but we do strive for adequacy (often failing) in many musical things. We also love to sing and harmonize.

 

I have bad news on the string front however. We do not use PB. Only uncoated bulk 80/20 bronze. Coating always gives something away -- which is a bad thing to do to great guitar -- and when playing PB, I feel I hear too much of the strings and not the instrument. This is learned effect, so I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but I am always disappointment when someone hands me a great guitar with PB. Sorry -- so I guess you won't be coming?

One thing we like to do is for our friends who are also accomplished musicians to come and demo the instruments as they sample them. We have a recording setup designed to specifically get a faithful sound reproduction -- I know we have talked about this off grid.

Here are some flatpicking demos from David Dugas and Tony Watt. Quite a few Js in that mix. Here is one we did last spring with our friend George Hergen -- folk singer at large. No Js there, but good stuff in a different style. And so it goes.

Like the woof, we have a soft place in our hearts for lesser guitars. Some are not so lesser -- listen to the Belltone being played by Tony Watt. But sometimes power is not what you want. We often play with a great flatpicker who basically always plugged in -- so his right hand never learned to drag out the sound needed to fit well in a power session. Of course good players modulate, but still it is not really the same. So a good solution is to do backup with a less powerful guitar. One of our favorites in this regards is our 62 Hummingbird with it broad full sound.

 

Examples soon.

 

Totally commend you for what you are doing for the music community with your instrument collection. Sounds highly rewarding as does the music community participation itself. I run a twice monthly folk/country/folk-rock/bluegrass music jam for similar reasons, but jammers supply their own instruments. (Music is in more than one room to allow different genres.) Been staging the jam for 18 years now! Agree with you about 89/20 bronze strings. That’s all I use on my guitar instruments, too.

 

In my case my music/guitar stuff falls into 5 categories. Solo gigging. Personal playing. Studying to expand my musical reach & songwriting/composing. Collecting instruments. Staging music community events (to give back and promote music.). Been playing for 56 years now (since I was 9). Gotta do different aspects to keep it being interesting...which impact all 5 categories of my guitar thang.

 

Again, love what you’re doing as I am sure all the many players you know and help also appreciate it.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[QuestionMark]

y

 

I don't think so. Granted my delusion was of playing a path through the other's collections, but I understand the difference in the two. - just making fun crossing story lines. I have to imagine though, it's fund to collect, but I do hope there's a level of playing what's collected seeing as what individually awesome all the instruments are.

 

There certainly is an element of only collecting instruments I enjoy playing. But, say 5 string banjos, there is one in my collection that I definitely have grown to prefer to bring with when I gig, over the other 3. And, guitars, one I definitely at this moment in time prefer playing over the other ones, but last year it was a different one that was my favorite. It’s a matter of which instrument helps me at any given time to be the best musician I can be at the moment. With performing, songwriting, keeping me interested as each guitar sounds and plays a bit different. And, when I am playing, I am also listening to the music and noticing subtle nuance differences which helps keep it interesting. Then, there is the one from 1936 that I barely play now, but won’t part with it as it’s a keeper in my collection.

 

I think you get the idea.

 

In my case it’s also that I have played nearly my whole life and adding different instruments to the stable, just like exploring new musical ground, helps keep it interesting (which helps keep me musically growing.)

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[zombywoof]

Accumulator, collector. Semantics. Or a bit of denial in one and intent in the other...but basically the same coin. Am sure if your wife told you to stop accumulating guitars, you’d probably counter with something about being a collector. In my case, my wife gets a new piece of jewelry whenever I buy another guitar. She understands I’m collecting guitars.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

 

I guess accumulating is a subcategory of collecting. But they are not synonymous with one another and have differences that outweigh similarities. I am way too disorganized and lack the focus to be a collector. I go about it in a haphazard way and am apt to snag something on impulse simply because it intrigues me. One of those, I have got to see what this thing will do things. As for my darling wife, no problem there. She has bought herself two new guitars this year. I need to catch up.

[QuestionMark]

I guess accumulating is a subcategory of collecting. But they are not synonymous with one another and have differences that outweigh similarities. I am way too disorganized and lack the focus to be a collector. I go about it in a haphazard way and am apt to snag something on impulse simply because it intrigues me. One of those, I have got to see what this thing will do things. As for my darling wife, no problem there. She has bought herself two new guitars this year. I need to catch up.

 

I like that! Accumulating guitars is a subcategory of collecting!

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[olie]

Things being offered here, from some very knowledgable people, are invaluable for folks like me and others too young to even know what to ask when it comes to acoustic guitars.So thanks to zombywoof and tpviii and many others for the wealth of information that you share with us and the world in general.I've played a bit of electric bass and guitar and am now focused solely on the organic, acoustic sound.It's the "simple" things in life that tend to grab me. Now- let's get back to quibbling about what strings are the "best". All the best.

[uncle fester]

We do not use PB. Only uncoated bulk 80/20 bronze. Sorry -- so I guess you won't be coming?

 

 

I can be ok with 80 / 20, I'll muscle through it :). PS - love all the side by side comparisons in the links... the AJ seems to get a reaction whenever anyone picks it up.

[Murph]

I admire those collections.

 

I was an electric gigger for many decades and my '03 J-45 was my first good acoustic. I now have to force myself to flip on my remaining tubes amps once in a while to keep the caps charged. I simply have NO interest in playing electric anymore and will eventually sell all of that stuff to upgrade my p.a. gear and increase the acoustic heard as retirement get closer.

 

I actually may sell some hunting ground as well to finance a building/venue for hosting acoustic shows. I'd like something I could open and close as I please to allow time for travel.

 

I tend to play the crap out of instruments and don't expect any of my stuff to retain much value. Even Scotty Stonemans 1933 mandolin has gotten a lot of wear in the last few years.

 

However, having said that, I foresee a day when the most worn out guitar on the Planet will eventually be the most valuable guitar on the Planet.

 

Trigger.

[kidblast]

hey murph I think maybe just a natural growth pattern for us geezers. I play less electric these days too, But I still do use that stuff and no plans to not. Still in a band with some guys I've been chumming around with for ever. we get occasional gigs, but we mostly still do it because there's nothing quite as fun as getting together with these clowns a few times a month and rocking out for a few hours. But these last few years, suffice to say I've never had callouses on my left fingers like I do now. I can probably put them thru a windshield.. !HA!

 

The one down side is, acoustics really do burn thru frets faster than electrics. Pretty sure my J200 soon needs a fret level, and my Taylor jumbo for sure does.

[QuestionMark]

 

 

However, having said that, I foresee a day when the most worn out guitar on the Planet will eventually be the most valuable guitar on the Planet.

 

Trigger.

 

I suspect you are correct, Trigger will likely be the most valuable (and sought after) guitar after Willie passes. (Although it might already be that). It will be interesting to see where or who it ends up with, although it becoming a public museum piece might be best for all to view and remember it’s phenomenal owner whose hands played it.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[zombywoof]

 

Finally here is our newest addition to the guitars we play. I bought it 15 years ago at a garage sale for $25. This year I spend ten time that much to bring it back to life -- neck set, frets, fretboard work, and repaired bridgeplate. It is a c. 1950 Kay -- 17" solid top guitar. It is a surprisingly powerful guitar -- not unlike late 50s Gibsons -- that fills the tone space sort of like a poor man's SJ-100. All summer we run an open jam session at a Farmers Market. We get all kinds of people and music at different times. One of our favorite is when good harmony singers come by, and we get some full three and four part harmonies going. This guitar seems perfect for that -- fills the background without interfering with the harmonies.

 

-Tom

 

Cannot see what the body wood is but if mahogany looks to be a K-22. Not sure what model the maple body with the small blocks was. Those 26" scale ladder braced Kays put out a thunderous roar. I own three Kays and have a late 1940s K24 cutaway in my sights at the moment. Just need to get an hour down the road to check it out.

[OldCowboy]

Interesting variations and takes on collection, accumulation, playing, and such. This is the sort of thread that keeps old guys like me reading through the forum even when trending posts seem to revolve around things that we don't feel sufficiently qualified (tech. in most forms) or interested (marginally, perhaps) with/in to encourage substantive participation. Kudos to all participants! I'm eternally grateful that the Kalamazoo MI and Austin TX areas have always been Gibson orieneted, as formative years in both places got me on the twisted path of accumulating, playing, collecting various Gibson acoustics. The joy of ownership is overshadowed by the joy of playing, in a lot of instances, and intervals of being financially flush/strapped have done a good job of sorting keepers from non-keepers. So, I guess it can be said that my Gibsons have evolved from a massive accumulation into a collection of instruments that fit my notion of 'good to play'. For good or ill, that comes down to vintage in most instances - sometimes in pretty crisp condition and sometimes not, sometimes original and sometimes repaired/restored. The focus of 1940's, 1950's, and 1960's was more a function of personal preferences than of calculated intent. In other words, it just sorta happened.

[tpbiii]

Cannot see what the body wood is but if mahogany looks to be a K-22. Not sure what model the maple body with the small blocks was. Those 26" scale ladder braced Kays put out a thunderous roar. I own three Kays and have a late 1940s K24 cutaway in my sights at the moment. Just need to get an hour down the road to check it out.

 

Thanks woof. That was my call too -- the Kay Artist K-22. Mahogany B&S.

We have a bunch of such things -- many dating from our flea market days. We have about half of them brought up to playing condition, but not all. In general when I thought I was just potentially a waste money, we just hung them on a wall.

 

Let's pick,

-Tom

[zombywoof]

Thanks woof. That was my call too -- the Kay Artist K-22. Mahogany B&S.

We have a bunch of such things -- many dating from our flea market days. We have about half of them brought up to playing condition, but not all. In general when I thought I was just potentially a waste money, we just hung them on a wall.

 

-Tom

 

The internet made fast work of the flea market days. I found the best place to look now is the back room of Mom & Pop stores where they toss the stuff they take in on trade that they do not feel is worth putting money into.

 

Here is one of my favorite little Kays. Built around 1937-38 and one of the first to bear the shortened Kay moniker. 00 size, spruce top, mahogany body with fully bound neck and top.

 

 

The sexiest one though remains ca. 1933 Oahu 68B. X braced with a deep Nick Lucas body. This thing sold for just under $100 in its day.

 

[tpbiii]

The internet made fast work of the flea market days. I found the best place to look now is the back room of Mom & Pop stores where they toss the stuff they take in on trade that they do not feel is worth putting money into.

 

The sexiest one though remains ca. 1933 Oahu 68B. X braced with a deep Nick Lucas body. This thing sold for just under $100 in its day.

 

Hey, let's start a band.

 

 

Let's pick,

-Tom

 

[bobouz]

Started playing in 1971, at the age of twenty, during my third year of college. A friend showed me a few chords & a fingerpicking pattern, and that did the trick. Within two years, I'm going to flea markets & picking up old Kays & Harmonys for $10-20, and fixing them up in order to sell or trade as I worked my way up into the world of Guilds, Gibsons, & Martins. Typically what I went after were solid-topped parlor or archtop instruments. One of the best was a very ornate '30s Harmony Cremona with a carved solid top, and a headstock that looked rather like a vertical theatre marquee.

 

Things did work out well over time, but it got to the point where I truly got tired of working on those flea market finds. Nowadays, when I see an old Kay or Harmony, it's even money on whether or not it will quietly induce some tucked-away sub-category form of PTSD!

[zombywoof]

Hey, let's start a band.

Let's pick,

-Tom

 

 

In keeping with the Oahu theme we can all wear clam diggers and our best Reyn Spooner shirts.

 

Wasn't there some kind of falling out among the Bronson Brothers who formed the Oahu Publishing Co. which led to the Bronson label.

 

Here is yet another Oahu. Nice flame maple body. Nothing to ID the builder but the headstock screams Regal.

 

[uncle fester]

Just ordered some 80/20 bronze, see if I can condition myself - just saying ;)

[tpbiii]

In keeping with the Oahu theme we can all wear clam diggers and our best Reyn Spooner shirts.

 

Wasn't there some kind of falling out among the Bronson Brothers who formed the Oahu Publishing Co. which led to the Bronson label.

 

Here is yet another Oahu. Nice flame maple body. Nothing to ID the builder but the headstock screams Regal.

 

 

Yea, they got mad at each other. Oahu stayed in Chicago and Bronson went to Cleveland if I remember correctly. There were apparently a number of fairly substantive guitars to emerge -- all made for them by other companies. Ours are both square necks -- 1920s Hawaiian craze. Ours are also both nice little solid wood examples of entry level student guitars. I actually bought the Bronson from a antique consignment shop last year for $50 - hadn't done that in years.

I came across this picture and the Devil made me post it. It is our 1926-1946 small body Gibsons.

 

 

Let's pick,

-Tom

 

[zombywoof]

I came across this picture and the Devil made me post it. It is our 1926-1946 small body Gibsons.

 

Let's pick,

-Tom

 

What is the model that is smack dab in the middle - 6th from the left and right?

 

I am caught in one of those just sold a guitar that I will always second guess the wisdom of letting go of. Only way to get it out of my head is to use the cash to buy something else. At the moment a 12 fret peanut shaped L-1 flattop is in the lead for top honors. Lots of evasive things done to it during its lifetime but all in all they were well done. Plus it would leave me enough cash to either get the neck reset on my Harmony H-40 or snag that Kay I have also been looking at. Ain't life grand?

[tpbiii]

What is the model that is smack dab in the middle - 6th from the left and right?

 

Ain't life grand?

 

Yes it is. Since there are 12 guitars, there are basically two in the center. The left one is a 1935 L-00 3/4. This guitar is x-braced and is quite rare. The form factor appeared three times more -- early 40s Kalamazoo Sports Model (a 42 is also in the picture), a late 50s LG-3/4 and the Arlo Guthrie model. Those were all ladder braced.

The next guitar over is a KT-14 (Kalamazoo tenor) -- basically the tenor version of the KG-14.

 

They are in order -- starting from the 1926 L-1 on the left to the 1946 LG-2 on the far right.

Life is indeed grand.

Best,-Tom

 

[QuestionMark]

Those are quite an interesting group of instruments in all of the photos. That photo(s) of all the Kays was also really something. I remember some from my youth.

 

Quite cool!

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[Lars68]

Yes it is. Since there are 12 guitars, there are basically two in the center. The left one is a 1935 L-00 3/4. This guitar is x-braced and is quite rare. The form factor appeared three times more -- early 40s Kalamazoo Sports Model (a 42 is also in the picture), a late 50s LG-3/4 and the Arlo Guthrie model. Those were all ladder braced.

The next guitar over is a KT-14 (Kalamazoo tenor) -- basically the tenor version of the KG-14.

 

They are in order -- starting from the 1926 L-1 on the left to the 1946 LG-2 on the far right.

Life is indeed grand.

Best,-Tom

 

I have a Kalamazoo KG 3/4 Sport, and it is incredibly cool. I use it when writing songs, traveling, or to record as a second guitar using Nashville tuned strings. It is such a tiny little thing (about the size of a contemporary Little Martin), but fully workable guitar. Tom, I remember hearing yours in a video you posted a few years ago, at the time I bought mine. Seller claimed mine was a 1938, but I have no idea how to verify that. Headstock says only Kalamazoo, no Sport logo, and I find no other markings on it.

 

Lars