What do you guys think of this dual source pickup configuration?

[sbpark]

This what I'm thinking of as far as a practical, versatile dual source system:

 

K&K Mini

LR Baggs M1 (I've had this pickup in my guitar drawer for a few years not being used, so figured I'd finally put it to use.)

K&K Dual Channel Pro ST Stereo Preamp

 

 

 

 

Both pickups are passive, the K&K and the M1. The K&K preamp has extra tabs on the jack that are there to solder in a second source, usually the mic portion of the Trinity system, but you can wire on any pickup you want. So the K&K Mini would be wired to the tip, the M1 would be wired to the sleeve. The K&K Dual Channel Pro ST preamp accepts a stereo 1/4 "TRS cable, or you can just plug a regular TS cable into it and use the K&K mini if I'm ever in a situation where I don't have the TRS cable and/or the K&K preamp with me.

 

Yes, the drawback of the K&K Dual Channel Pro ST preamp is the EQ for both sources is inside the box, but that's something I think I can live with. I just want something I can dial in roughly where I can dial out the usual boomy and feedback prone frequencies ahead of time, then show up at an open mic, plug gin and go, but still have an acceptable sound that wont song like a UST, but then also have a system that I can mess with a little more that will still be versatile in most other situations, including if I end up playing in a louder band situation. (I gave up playing in bands last year, but you never know).

 

So what are your opinions on this set up?

[BluesKing777]

I just tried it with my Waterloo WL-14X with K&K Mini and the Baggs M80 on passive setting. Sounds good.

 

It is hard to get an overall EQ of both, probably need a separate EQ on each. Only hard wire the K&K and run the M1 lead out of the soundhole and both to your Tonebone preamp with sep EQ of each. But there goes the plug and play

 

 

(I ran my K&K to my new Baggs Align EQ pedal battery powered and it sounded really good, better than both pickups together really. J45 may sound totally different.....)

 

May be better to ask some questions on the AGF - Amplification section.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[MorrisrownSal]

I don't play open mics, but I do play smallish gigs that range from bars to private events and parties. I think dual source this, and dual EQ that, sounds great in forums and demo headphones, but for me it would be way too complex.

BK is a gadget dude extraordinaire. It's part of his whole hobby, which of course includes fantastic playing and recording skill. I tip my hat and give props.

However, I definitely think that an industry noticed that the same dopes who Are chasing holy grail acoustic tone can be tempted into chasing holy grail amplified tone.

 

 

Not calling you a dope... refers to all of us nerds.

 

Open mics? Keep it simple. You already have a k&k mini and a belt clip preamp... I think with just that you will have the best tone of the night.

[Jinder]

It’s a nice system, but as has been said, would in reality be far too complex for open mic plug-n-play scenarios and would end up irritating you.

 

The M1A is a great pickup and has a degree of top sensitivity to it, so the K&K wouldn’t add much to that, tonally.

 

I’d go for one or the other. The M1A is a better bet to avoid potential feedback issues when working with open mic sound engineers.

 

Dual source is nice but far from a necessity. I’ve played everywhere from garden parties to 10,000 seat arenas and have always been single source. Quicker, easier and, ultimately, one really high quality pickup is enough to get the point across.

[dhanners623]

I'm no audio expert, but I've played numerous venues over the years and the credo I keep coming back to is, "Simpler is better." The more gizmos/cables/connectors you can get rid of, the better. Performing live has enough headaches as it is.

[jvi]

play more-think less

[sbpark]

All great points, and I'm just going to stick with the K&K Mini and K&K Pre Preamp. Keep it simple, and if things change down the line I have the option to add a second source if I want.

[BluesKing777]

That will do the job!

 

But it will always sound like something is missing, well, to me anyway.

 

The absolute perfect machine is the K&K with a Tonedexter file and some extra EQ and reverb/delay. Need a power point for the TDexter though....

 

The other week, I was at a friend’s place playing through his new PA and I played his Maton dread, Martin 000-15M, Gibson BK and my Waterloo.

 

I tell you, in the crystal clear brand new JBL powered speakers, they all sounded fantastic!

 

But the only fully plug and play was his Maton dread with the fabulous AP5-Pro dual source pickup system. His Martin 000-15 had a passive Baggs M1 and needed a preamp and EQ (2 extra gadgets). His BK with Baggs Anthem needed EQ but we went through the same 2 gadgets. My Waterloo had my Baggs M80 and needed EQ.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[blindboygrunt]

Just back from gig

Lr baggs factory fitted pickup in j15

Worked a treat

[uncle fester]

I like the baggs for the ability to move it between guitars, and it sounds good, not pure acoustic reproduction, but good to me.

 

I like the K&K mini for the potential to pair it with the ToneDexter, but also understand the ToneDexter adds a level of complexity that's not really worth dealing with in some situations. If you're in a situation you don't mind dealing with the TD, you can get an awesome reproduced sound of your guitar, but for those times your note using the tonedexter, you need a pre-amp for the k&k. sal mentioned a nice belt clip red something or other...

 

So I guess I want the K&k with the preamp to get started, than i'd add the tonedexter... but I'd like the baggs as well.

 

I want to be BK.

[BluesKing777]

I like the baggs for the ability to move it between guitars, and it sounds good, not pure acoustic reproduction, but good to me.

 

I like the K&K mini for the potential to pair it with the ToneDexter, but also understand the ToneDexter adds a level of complexity that's not really worth dealing with in some situations. If you're in a situation you don't mind dealing with the TD, you can get an awesome reproduced sound of your guitar, but for those times your note using the tonedexter, you need a pre-amp for the k&k. sal mentioned a nice belt clip red something or other...

 

So I guess I want the K&k with the preamp to get started, than i'd add the tonedexter... but I'd like the baggs as well.

 

I want to be BK.

 

 

Ha!

 

So you want to be me because I am rich, stylish and handsome or because I have a roomful of guitars and pickups?

 

In justifying myself, I thought I would buy the damn things and try them for a while, maybe sell the ones that don’t work out. I was thinking while making toast - they don’t let you try the toaster before you take it home, do they? Mine only cooks on one half and if you turn it up, burns on one half.... the old one was a cheapo I bought urgently and lasted way beyond the call. But with both toasters, I took the word of ....phew, deep breath....the salesman. [bored]

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Jinder]

Just back from gig

Lr baggs factory fitted pickup in j15

Worked a treat

 

I think the Baggs Element works really well in certain guitars. It sounded terrific in my old J15 and SJ100 reissue, but sounds a bit clunky in my J180. Not bad, just a bit quacky. Didn’t suit my Maple AJ AT ALL though, it was bordering on unusable. I think it’s just not a good fit with Maple guitars, for whatever reason. In the same way the Rare Earth sounds terrific in my F25, but pants in my J45 which is just one year older, same tonewoods and the fruit of the same factory.

 

Mating the right pickup to the right guitar is a dark art. I’m currently jonesing to put this in my J180 just for the visual aspect!

 

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Gretsch-Deltoluxe-Acoustic-Guitar-Pickup-Chrome/28HN?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=104315d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=96391400411&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI26u0hvzQ3QIVGM53Ch3NRAe3EAQYAiABEgLzsvD_BwE

[BluesKing777]

I think the Baggs Element works really well in certain guitars. It sounded terrific in my old J15 and SJ100 reissue, but sounds a bit clunky in my J180. Not bad, just a bit quacky. Didn’t suit my Maple AJ AT ALL though, it was bordering on unusable. I think it’s just not a good fit with Maple guitars, for whatever reason. In the same way the Rare Earth sounds terrific in my F25, but pants in my J45 which is just one year older, same tonewoods and the fruit of the same factory.

 

Mating the right pickup to the right guitar is a dark art. I’m currently jonesing to put this in my J180 just for the visual aspect!

 

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Gretsch-Deltoluxe-Acoustic-Guitar-Pickup-Chrome/28HN?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=104315d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=96391400411&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI26u0hvzQ3QIVGM53Ch3NRAe3EAQYAiABEgLzsvD_BwE

 

 

Yes, who cares what that one sounds like - it looks great!

 

Maybe put something that works good inside, K&K or something, Element? And that in the soundhole....probably sound great dual source. Yes, I might buy it myself. Probably look good on a black guitar? There isn’t one ‘long wire Sunrise’ in the whole world for sale!

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Cougar]

This what I'm thinking of as far as a practical, versatile dual source system....

 

Or you could just go with a DTAR dual source?

[Jinder]

Yes, who cares what that one sounds like - it looks great!

 

Maybe put something that works good inside, K&K or something, Element? And that in the soundhole....probably sound great dual source. Yes, I might buy it myself. Probably look good on a black guitar? There isn’t one ‘long wire Sunrise’ in the whole world for sale!

 

BluesKing777.

 

Perhaps I shouldn’t have been so vocal about my love for the Sunrise here and on social media 😂 I agree that the Gretsch looks great, would love to dual source it at some point with a stereo splitter lead into my AD10.

[sbpark]

Or you could just go with a DTAR dual source?

 

 

Nah. I just cant stand UST's, period. And couple that with a mic, and if you're In a situation where you cant use the mic, you're stuck with the crappy UST, then you have to incorporate modeling preamps, etc. Screw that. I think the K&K and magnetic sound hole mic or K&K and an internal mic are much more versatile and sound better. Plus, I am a firm believer that the sound of the guitar does infect improve when you remove the UST, and a lot of UST's dont work as well/sound as well with a bone saddle and work better with a Tusq saddle, but unplugged, I much prefer the sound of bone over Tusq.

[Jinder]

Yes, who cares what that one sounds like - it looks great!

 

Maybe put something that works good inside, K&K or something, Element? And that in the soundhole....probably sound great dual source. Yes, I might buy it myself. Probably look good on a black guitar? There isn’t one ‘long wire Sunrise’ in the whole world for sale!

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Well, I caved and bought the Deltoluxe! Had to try it in the cherry J180...too much eye candy to resist. I don’t like the element VTC in the 180 so will take that out, put a bone saddle in and try the Deltoluxe on it’s own for a bit, with a view to adding a K&K to the mix as a dual source at some point, or maybe even the DTAR Sadducer passive UST I have in my kitbag waiting for a home. Plenty of fun awaits!

[Jinder]

Yes, who cares what that one sounds like - it looks great!

 

Maybe put something that works good inside, K&K or something, Element? And that in the soundhole....probably sound great dual source. Yes, I might buy it myself. Probably look good on a black guitar? There isn’t one ‘long wire Sunrise’ in the whole world for sale!

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Well, I caved and bought the Deltoluxe! Had to try it in the cherry J180...too much eye candy to resist. I don’t like the element VTC in the 180 so will take that out, put a bone saddle in and try the Deltoluxe on it’s own for a bit, with a view to adding a K&K to the mix as a dual source at some point, or maybe even the DTAR Sadducer passive UST I have in my kitbag waiting for a home. Plenty of fun awaits!

[blindboygrunt]

You guys are nuts

[BluesKing777]

Yeah, nutso plus.

 

And if there was the 'long wire' model of the Sunrise for sale, it would be mine to try. Not so. None...

 

All Jinder's fault.

 

But so far, I am pleased with the Baggs M1A, not a fully acoustic sound but a nice sound. Easy to use, chuck it in the soundhole and plug 'er in. Jump up at the open mic/gig. Get home and take it out. (doesn't fit in the OM Martin soundholes though! main reason I bought it.)

 

 

But, top of the live sound plug an play is a Maton AP5-pro pickup system, standard to most Matons.

 

Next, I like the Martin guitars with an inbuilt Aura system.

 

Next, I like any guitar with a piezo pickup system though my Tonedexter.

 

Next, I like my Baggs M1A/M80 but NOT without serious EQ.

 

And on down to last - the Baggs Element in my Blues King. Awful. (but plug that in to an Aura Spectrum and it is great!) :mellow:

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Cougar]

Nah. I just cant stand UST's, period.

 

Heh. Sorry I mentioned it!

 

[BluesKing777]

Well, I caved and bought the Deltoluxe! Had to try it in the cherry J180...too much eye candy to resist. I don’t like the element VTC in the 180 so will take that out, put a bone saddle in and try the Deltoluxe on it’s own for a bit, with a view to adding a K&K to the mix as a dual source at some point, or maybe even the DTAR Sadducer passive UST I have in my kitbag waiting for a home. Plenty of fun awaits!

 

 

 

Maybe try the Element and the Delta together before you rip anything out. One will give you bottom end and the other high end, might sound great.

 

In my lunch break earlier, I was experimenting with my new Baggs Align EQ (must get a better name to type for it, BAEQ?) with some pickups I have had for donkey's years and didn't like much. Everyone said that the mag pickups need EQ to sound good, guess what? They were right.

So I had my old Fishman Neo-D Humbucker in my Waterloo WL-14X running to my new BAEQ and I could almost live with it, way better than without the Neo-D to my amp.

 

Then, with this thread at the back of my head, I tried both the K&K in my Waterloo AND the Fishy Neo-D to a channel each of my mixer. The K&K went to the BAEQ and the Neo-D went to my Fishman Pro EQ. This required 4 guitar leads and 2 mixer channels and 2 EQ preamps. And it sounded great with an equal mix of K&K and Neo-D! Worth all the guitar leads and stuff?

 

Nope! :huh: [lol]

 

 

BluesKing777.

[jvi]

buy an ovation and fergit it...