NePb Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 I can't so much comment on the older cars, but I own a sixth generation Pontiac Grand Prix. Unless you can prove that your Pontiac has had religious maintenance over the years (apparently in the same vein as old British cars...), it is probably worth passing on. Mine is a hand me down from my dad and he was fastidious about maintenance, and there are still things wrong with it. It is a General Motors product and it shows. In its final decades, I would say Pontiac as a whole was and is not known for quality workmanship. I've owned three different Pontiac vehicles, as well as a GM built Saturn. They all had good engines, passable transaxles, poor wiring, cheap components and bad on gas. By the way, that cheap component thing, check if the recall for the ignition switch has been completed if you plan to buy it. The upshot is they are reliable daily drivers for the most part. There are lots of Pontiacs out on the roads 7 years after production stopped. There are also lots in scrapyards, so if you aren't averse to getting dirty, mingling with the rifraf, you can usually find cheap replacement parts for the stuff that breaks. Buy two, cause the other one will probably break as well. On the whole though, probably don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 * Famously described as being an acronym for "Lots Of Trouble; Usually Serious". Yes, much like Fix It Again Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 The beauty of running an old MG is that it's relatively simple and thus easy to maintain, all parts are easy to get and if you buy right you will get zero depreciation, which to me is a big killer with running a modern car. The draw back is that it's an old car, but if you can find one that's been well looked after and maintained (and do so yourself) it could be a very wise buy after all there's not that much to go wrong with them, you don't need any fancy tools or computer to plug them into. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 The beauty of running an old MG is that it's relatively simple and thus easy to maintain......after all there's not that much to go wrong with them, you don't need any fancy tools... Absolutely. A screwdriver, a pair of pliers, a knife and a set of spanners / socket-set can do pretty much all you'd ever need to keep the thing running. As an example; I had a '59 Beetle as my daily-driver for 10 years from 1990 on. It broke down fairly frequently but in the decade I owned it there was only one time it didn't get home under its own steam and that was when, under bizarre circumstances, the battery shorted out allowing acrid (and potentially lethal) fumes to flood the cabin. I might have been able to schlep the four-hour trip home but as I had three passengers along with me I decided to take the safer option... Apart from that? Tools as mentioned earlier; a Haynes manual; some common sense and patience always - but always - managed to save the day. A 'run' big-end bearing? Noisy trip home and an engine rebuild. A holed piston? Laying down a smoke-screen the likes of which the Kapitan of the Graf Spee would have admired...and an engine rebuild. Dead engine in the middle of nowhere at 06:30 on a Sunday morning? Some Sherlocking with the manual and a mains tester. Etc...etc... Even the engine rebuilds were very straightforward. It all came apart easily - and logically - and it all went back together in a similar fashion. An MGB /MGB GT is, essentially, from pretty much the same era and the approach would be pretty much the same. It WOULD need some attention - and possibly on a frequent basis - but that's just how things were even back then when they were new. Trivia Time: The frontal treatment of the MGB was based on the general shape of the Renault Caravelle! Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Yes Pip, and don't forget the depreciation, or lack of. Someone I was talking to the other day told me that his Wife's Fiat 500 had lost 60% of it's value when he went to trade it in after 2 years(and it's a very low mileage car). Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Yes Pip, and don't forget the depreciation, or lack of. Someone I was talking to the other day told me that his Wife's Fiat 500 had lost 60% of it's value when he went to trade it in after 2 years(and it's a very low mileage car). Ian Those little Fiats have hideous depreciation for whatever reason, in the UK. My Dad's partner made the mistake of buying one, and she was fairly horrified when she went to trade it a few years later (again, with a very low mileage) <10,000 miles. As a Brit in the US, I am always amazed at how cars hold their value in America. The depreciation on SUVs and trucks is close to nothing. Because of the sheer size of the country and the fact that cars are the primary means of transportation for most people, you quickly have to reassess what "low mileage" and "high mileage" mean here. Nowhere in the UK could you get away with advertising a car with 80,000 on it as low mileage, whatever its age. The other startling thing is the high used car prices. I have observed a rule of thumb in Virginia: if it runs and has a year's Safety Inspection (MOT in UK-speak), it's worth a minimum of $1250 to $2000 as a private sale or on the equivalent to Arthur Daley's used car lot. Doesn't matter what it is, or how old and tired it is. Sure, the likes of Carmax will only offer you $200 for an old car like that, but when it eventually ends up on the backstreet used car lot, $1250 to $2000. A friend of mine inherited a 1995 Civic with 250,000 on the clock when his Dad passed away. He went and had it inspected (it passed); Stuck a note on it parked outside his apartment and got $1100 for it that evening. Probably would have got a bit more had it been an auto instead of a manual, and also he wanted shut of the thing, quickly - didn't want to look at his Dad's car parked outside his house every day. The only significant depreciation seems to be on big, old-fashioned, big-engined, 4 door sedans. I like, and have owned, Chevrolet Impalas and that kind of thing. Big V6 engines. These "Granddad sedans" can be a bargain, often because Granddad only drove to it to church, the grocery store, and the golf course for the decade he had the thing before he stopped driving, and he kept up with all the maintenance scheduled in the manual. I currently own a 2006 Buick LaCrosse which I bought with a (genuinely, for the age and location), low mileage: 45,000. It was eleven years old when I bought it and it cost me a little more than $7000. New, in 2006, it was a $27,000 car. That's about the best depreciation you'll find in the US as a used car buyer. I frequently see ten or twelve year old pickup trucks with 150,000+ on them, priced well north of $10,000. A friend of mine back home just sent his 2002 Astra to the big Vauxhall garage in the sky because it had 100,000 on it and the head gasket went. "Beyond economic repair" in his judgment. Here, someone would undoubtedly fix a car like that and try to get another 100,000 out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I bought a mid 60's MG back in'68. It was fun to drive until it blew up a few months later. Parts were unattainable. I lwaited months for them & they never came so I sold it. Why not a 60's Camaro, Mustang, 60's Karmann Ghia which is basically a VW or a 70's Datsun 240, 260 or 280Z? All are pretty much bullet proof & Parts are readily available. All are on the upward Appreciation mode.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Very interesting post on numerous levels Lord Summerisle. Thanks for posting it. Astonishing to read about the slowness of the depreciation Stateside............Truly Extraordinary! By comparison the current 'New' price for even the most basic entry-level equivalent of my current car (a Mercedes Coupe) is $46k. I bought mine (with a higher spec) on the 'Used' market as a six-year-old relatively low-mileage example for $5.5k. Admittedly it is finished in a rather, erm, unusual shade of metallic lime-green but even so..... Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 I bought a mid 60's MG back in'68. It was fun to drive until it blew up a few months later. Parts were unattainable...Why not a 60's Karmann Ghia which is basically a VW... Eh? Parts were "unattainable" for a three-year-old car? Someone was having you on. As far as the VW K-G is concerned; have you any idea of how expensive it is to repair and maintain the bodywork of a Karmann Ghia (either a type-1 or type-3; it makes little difference)? Financially speaking you'd almost be better-off running a Ferrari. Beautiful cars, unquestionably, but if (for example) you shunt the front end you'd better have extremely deep pockets. It also helps a great deal if you happen to live in a country with no annual rainfall. I was active in the UK VW scene for 16 years and I lusted after the type-3 ('Razor-Edge') variant until I talked to several owners who all had their own particular tale of woe to tell... Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 My daily driver is a 2010 Impala with 172,000 miles. Absolutely, without question, the best car I have ever owned. They're common, cheap, bland, they get great mileage and that little 3.5 engine will SCREAM down the road. Most of them are bland muted colors so they blend into the parking lot. I was at WalMart last week and walked past 3 identical dark blue Impalas until I got to mine. As a bonus, they have great sound systems. I bought this in early 2015 with 107,000 miles for $5995. I don't show it a lot of mercy, I just drive it. My daughter and her husband took it on her honeymoon and ended up in Nashville or thereabouts. Never skipped a beat, and if anyone can break a car, it's those two. I can't speak about depreciation because historically I buy a car for $1000 or less and hope to get a year or two out of it. I haven't made any moves as far as replacing the Corvette yet. I hoped I could find a deal this fall, someone ready to sell cheaper rather than store it, but I'm not seeing numbers to support that. The 2006 Solstice is still on the table I suppose, but I haven't even test driven it yet. If I want to be daring and buy a 40 year old MGB, there are a few in the state in the 3000-4000 dollar range. It's nice to be in the position of not 'needing' to make a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 MI bought this in early 2015 with 107,000 miles for $5995. That was a heck of a bargain! Auction purchase? Or did you manage to get a private seller to come down a fair bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Eric Clapton's 2004 Ferrari to be auctioned - just the thing, ks!! https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/eric-claptons-2004-blue-ferrari-15202084 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Eh? Parts were "unattainable" for a three-year-old car? Someone was having you on. As far as the VW K-G is concerned; have you any idea of how expensive it is to repair and maintain the bodywork of a Karmann Ghia (either a type-1 or type-3; it makes little difference)? Financially speaking you'd almost be better-off running a Ferrari. Beautiful cars, unquestionably, but if (for example) you shunt the front end you'd better have extremely deep pockets. It also helps a great deal if you happen to live in a country with no annual rainfall. I was active in the UK VW scene for 16 years and I lusted after the type-3 ('Razor-Edge') variant until I talked to several owners who all had their own particular tale of woe to tell... Pip. I can't spak for the UK. I live in So Cal. Back then you couldn't find Mechanics who could even adjust the Carbuerators. Let alone get Parts. I had a friend who bought an MGB GT Fastback about the same time. Cool looking Car. He was gonna fix it up.. It just sat in front of his house. I never did see that Car actually move. He finally got rid if it. With regard to Body Work.. All Cars in need of Body Work cost money. The Karmann Ghia being a more limited Production Car would be more expensive. But Cars like Mustangs, Camaros, VW's & other popular Cars were sold in huge volumes & Parts are readily available & less costly. I've owned two 60's VW Bugs. Simple Cars to work on & I'm not a Mechanic. I even replaced an Engine in a half a day with the help of a friend. Put some Performance Parts on it, had it Painted & put some Chrome Porsche Wheels on it. It was a Bad *** little Ride. Everybody wanted to buy it. Drove it for a few years & put tons of miles on it. When it came time to sell I got more than I had into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 That was a heck of a bargain! Auction purchase? Or did you manage to get a private seller to come down a fair bit? In December of 2014 I bought a 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe from a dealer. I drove it three days and 250 miles when a rod went right through the block. The dealer gave me a loaner to use, and a month went by and the Hyundai was still apart in the shop. I talked him into just buying the Hyundai back from me (in effect) and I'd pick something else off the lot. He had bought the Impala at auction and I think he wanted to just make a quick flip and get me out of his hair at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 With regard to Body Work.. All Cars in need of Body Work cost money. The Karmann Ghia being a more limited Production Car would be more expensive.... No; the lower volume production wasn't the problem with the K-G in comparison to the Beetle. If anyone needs to repair / change a panel on a Beetle and it can be replaced cheaply, quickly and easily - especially the bolt-on wings. Not so the K-G with their effectively one-piece hand-built Karmann bodyshells. These cars had their complete front-end (for example) welded together from a number of smaller pressings. These welds were then hand-ground, lead-filled and the whole lot finished-off to a final smooth surface, again, all by hand. If you need to replace the front-end - or rear-end, wing, front valence or indeed any part of this whole jigsaw puzzle - you are in to the tune of a huge amount of the folding in terms of labour costs. Furthermore the K-G's succumbed more to rust than did the Beetle - especially the Type 3 K-G - so work would be necessary far more frequently. I could - and did - do pretty much anything and everything on the Beetle (my flatmate at the time I bought it even had a welder) but the bodywork of the K-G was WAY out of my league. Which is a shame for anyone trying to run one on a shoe-string budget (as I would have been) because they are very pretty cars. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 In December of 2014 I bought a 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe from a dealer. I drove it three days and 250 miles when a rod went right through the block...The dealer gave me a loaner to use, and a month went by and the Hyundai was still apart in the shop. I talked him into just buying the Hyundai back from me (in effect) and I'd pick something else off the lot. He had bought the Impala at auction and I think he wanted to just make a quick flip and get me out of his hair at the same time. Well that's a result of sorts ksd! And - small derail - every time I read 'Chevrolet Impala' I can't get the image of this version out of my head. There was one which used to park around the corner from our house when I was in my early teens which, for Central Scotland, was extraordinarily exotic!(*). Pip. EDIT : That is to say the car was exotic; not our house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 Impalas (or variants, Biscayne, Bel Air, Caprice, or at least the 'standard' full size Chevrolet) have always been part of my arsenal. I've owned: 1950 Fleetline 1954 Bel Air (in 1989, then I bought it back in 2017) 1957 Bel Air (currently own) 1958 Brookwood wagon 1960 Impala 1962 Bel Air 1963 Bel Air 1964 Impala 1967 Bel Air 1967 Impala (x2) 1968 Bel Air (x2) 1968 Impala (x4) 1969 Bel Air 1969 Impala 1972 Impala 1972 Caprice 1974 Caprice 1978 Impala 1980 Impala 2010 Impala (currently own) All this Impala talk.....now I want another '67....with a 283. 4 door sedan. With a broken motor mount so when I stomp on the gas pedal it pops into neutral...and a squeaky rear window that sounds like sheet metal being dragged over a chalkboard...sigh...good times. I miss this car.....a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 Cripes! I REALLY wish I could have given you 2+ for that list - and taking the time for the historical research! - but one + is all they allow. Wow! That's a HELL of a lot of Iron in your past. May the iron in your future be just as interesting! And Solid! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 This is far better than yer average MGB, even if more expensive to run. If you want a little sporty convertible the most realistic choice is a Mazda. I'd get the Chevy. YOLO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 If you want a little sporty convertible the most realistic choice is a Mazda....I'd get the Chevy.... All else being within financial reach it's not really a difficult choice. Is it? Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted September 27, 2018 Share Posted September 27, 2018 All else being within financial reach it's not really a difficult choice. Is it? Pip. You're not taken by Eric's blue Ferrari then? Same colour as your old Strat? Edit...Miles Davis had a yellow Ferrari.... http://thevinylfactory.com/news/miles-davis-ferrari-ebay/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 Wow! That's a HELL of a lot of Iron in your past. May the iron in your future be just as interesting! And Solid! *cough* um...yeah, and that's just the Chevys. I lost track after 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsongs Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Well that's a result of sorts ksd! And - small derail - every time I read 'Chevrolet Impala' I can't get the image of this version out of my head. There was one which used to park around the corner from our house when I was in my early teens which, for Central Scotland, was extraordinarily exotic!(*). Pip. EDIT : That is to say the car was exotic; not our house... That Car is extraordinarily exotic in any Country! I'm a huge Impala fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 You're not taken by Eric's blue Ferrari then? Same colour as your old Strat? Edit...Miles Davis had a yellow Ferrari.... I'm not a fan of the 612 but I do like non-red Ferraris. I'd have preferred Mr. Davis' old runabout had it been the GTB version rather than the GTS but I suppose I could put in a bid. You never know?... Back in my student days there was one very forlorn example of a Dino 246 GT in 'Flag Blue' (AKA the Ecurie Ecosse team livery) which could be seen through a side window languishing in a provincial garage workshop. I used to pass by every week or so and watched as the layer of dust which covered it got deeper by the milimetre. It was there for at least three years and then one day the garage had been razed to the ground. I often wonder what became of the wee thing. One of Slowhand's Prancing Horses I would accept gladly is the specially made one-off SP12EPC which he received six years back. Lovely! https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/a21876/eric-clapton-ferrari-sp12-ec-tribute-to-the-berlinetta-boxer/ Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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