Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums
Sign in to follow this  
drathbun

Rant About Gibson Bashing

Recommended Posts

I'm a fan of Dave's. For someone who is interested in learning how to do minor setup work on their guitars, he is pretty knowledgable and funny to watch at the same time. He bashes all kinds of brands/guitars. Thats just how he is and I actually find it funny. I wouldn't take it personally against Gibson. Every company has flaws and nothing is perfect. I love Gibson guitars. Some people think they're always right and love to have something to b***h about!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So "early days" slimt? Is that before Bozeman? Or, at some point, did Ren change the Custom Shop process? They began production in Bozeman in 1990 and Ren left in 2012. Was it when Ren left?

 

The Custom shop was a seperate room in the Bozeman plant.. Some of those Guitars had Brazilian Rosewood provided to them by the Customer for there guitar in inline ..They actually hand scalloped braces, sanded and polished those braces. cut there own pearls, Inlayed each piece by hand. it was a cool process to see,, this was in the early 90s..

 

 

 

I had a few guitars done in that Custom shop.. ..

 

as for the production shop.. that was still going on at the same time.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The "Custom Shop" at Bozeman isn't a separate unit like it is for other guitar companies. At Gibson Montana, the "Custom Shop" is the same line of hands that are on the regular line of instruments. The Custom Shop guitar is a special run given special materials, special selection and special handling. That's what I got from my summer 2015 tour of the facility with Jeremy Morton. It might have been something different earlier but I always thought it was the same line and not a different "shop" in Bozeman.

 

 

Still have to understand why some Southern Jumbos have the CS and others don't, I have been told by Gibson: "All of our guitars that were not planogram models were considered Limited Editions due to the fact that they were onlyavailable for that model year. "

 

 

 

 

I wonder if I add a CS logo I am "faking" the guitar...I remember ten years ago they had a "limited edition" logo similar to the CS logo, I think it should be reintroduced as the Gibson Montana CS acoustics aren't "custom shop" guitars IMO. The main characteristic of a custom guitar is that's it's made to order with different specs from regular production ones, and my understanding is Gibson Montana doesn't get custom orders.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s my understanding, from Jeremy Fuller at Fuller Guitars in an e-mail he sent to me, that my 1964 CS J-45 is a CS because it was a special order by Fuller Guitars to Gibson for a batch of faded cherry sunburst J-45s with an adjustable bridge, the 1964 pickguard shape, a special antique nitrocellulose finish, thinner bracing like the originals, and a FON on the neckblock rather than a serial number on the back of the headstock.

 

That sounds pretty much like a custom shop special order edition to me, although it was done on the normal line. It also is designated a CS with the laquered over neck decal so as to easily differentiate it from an original 1964 J-45, so it can’t be passed off as an original 1964 in the vintage market, although it is quite identical otherwise.. Which makes sense to me.

 

Just my experience.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

Edited by QuestionMark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s my understanding, from Jeremy Fuller at Fuller Guitars in an e-mail he sent to me, that my 1964 CS J-45 is a CS because it was a special order by Fuller Guitars to Gibson for a batch of faded cherry sunburst J-45s with an adjustable bridge, the 1964 pickguard shape, a special antique nitrocellulose finish, thinner bracing like the originals, and a FON on the neckblock rather than a serial number on the back of the headstock.

 

That sounds pretty much like a custom shop special order edition to me, although it was done on the normal line. It also is designated a CS with the laquered over neck decal so as to easily differentiate it from an original 1964 J-45, so it can’t be passed off as an original 1964 in the vintage market, although it is quite identical otherwise.. Which makes sense to me.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

 

 

Fuller's Vintage had a history of commissioning special runs from Bozeman. I have a "1943 Southern Jumbo" from a run done in 2006. It has a lot of authentic features, including serial number ink-stamped on the neck block rather than embossed on the headstock, belly-down bridge with slot-through bone saddle, bone nut, centerline black stripe on the back, pseudo-firestripe pickguard, 19-fret neck, five-ply top binding, etc. It's supposed to be an adi top, but looks like sitka to me.

 

The non-authentic features are a bound fretboard, which is a post-war characteristic, and the luthier's choice neck with a 1.78" nut and 2 3/16" pin spacing. I can live with those compromises in authenticity, since sonically it's a great guitar.

 

Fortunately, that guitar does not have a "custom shop" decal on the neck (nor does my L-OO Legend, another limited run guitar that is even more "authentic") , which would sort of compromise the overall effect, even though it is a special limited run.

 

On the electric guitar side, Gibson seems to use the "custom shop" designation on a large percentage of the guitars that come out of Memphis, few of which seem to have anything "custom" about them. The old Nashville "Custom, Art, and Historic" shop, where my '59 ES-335 Historic was built, was probably a closer analog to Bozeman's old custom shop.

 

A few shops like Fuller's (then) and Wildwood (now) have been able to commission and sell unique runs of guitars from Gibson Acoustic. The fact that they may not have the "custom shop" logo on them doesn't bother me at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too hate those that just bash Gibsons, however there are some reasons to be critical. I love Gibson, period, I'm addicted. I have a SJ-200, LP Blueberry HP and an ES-335. Maybe not as many as some of you other posters, but a serious investment. Of those three, two, the SJ and LP have had to be sent back to Gibson. The SJ had a headstock that was cloudy underneath the finish and had scratches. How could they have missed that? How could the dealer have missed it? The LP was fine for the first year then one day I went in and it had bubbles all over the surface. It was explained to me that sometimes during finishing there might be humidity that gets trapped under the cellulose finish and it slowly works it way to the top. I understand they couldn't see or anticipate it at the factory.

 

So I sent them back and it took a long time, but they were both fixed, no issues, no haggles, just fixed. I really missed them but I have a Martin J-40 and and other electrics to play. So I have an approximate 66% failure rate and I still love them. I really love my Martin too, will never sell it, it sounds so nice, easy to play....until I pick up the SJ and then the Gibson just outplays, out-sounds, out everything the Martin. The Martin is a great guitar, it's just not an SJ. Same with the LP. I played my Gretsch, souped up Epiphone and others, but they're not, don't play like and don't sound like the LP.

 

So although I hate it when I hear ranting about Gibsons, some of it is deserved as I've sent two of my three back to the factory. When I save more money, I'll get another Gibson full well knowing I may have to send it back to the factory. But to me, having played just about every guitar there is, nothing sounds, plays or feels like a Gibsons, at least to me........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would probably take somene like a Ralph Nader type consumer protection activist to delineate the various ‘custom, custom shop, hand built, limited run, limited edition, vintage, true vintage, authentic’ .........

 

Like my Cargill Custom 00 deep body is fairly well a one-off customisation of a ‘style’ of guitar he will build on order, but I doubt he cut and built all parts by hand....’Special Order Assembled Mainly By Hand From Machine Cut Components With A Once Only Hand Sprayed Finish’

 

 

BluesKing777.

Edited by BluesKing777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the little CS decal goes on guitars that DON'T have stray glue drops inside.

 

Yes those that have it develop bridge bellies after two years or so.

 

It's my understanding, from Jeremy Fuller at Fuller Guitars in an e-mail he sent to me, that my 1964 CS J-45 is a CS because it was a special order by Fuller Guitars to Gibson for a batch of faded cherry sunburst J-45s with an adjustable bridge, the 1964 pickguard shape, a special antique nitrocellulose finish, thinner bracing like the originals, and a FON on the neckblock rather than a serial number on the back of the headstock.

 

That sounds pretty much like a custom shop special order edition to me, although it was done on the normal line. It also is designated a CS with the laquered over neck decal so as to easily differentiate it from an original 1964 J-45, so it can't be passed off as an original 1964 in the vintage market, although it is quite identical otherwise.. Which makes sense to me.

 

Just my experience.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

 

 

Actually similar guitars with non adjustable bridges were available for other sellers. And again for me a CS guitar is a custom ordered guitar like Martin or Fender offer. Thus, perhaps the old limited edition decal would be a better choice.

Edited by Alex_78

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is this Morkolo dude such a ****?

 

Who knows? I hear he just had a different opinion that may have been misinterpreted as a slight. Could have wrote a multi point response to this silliness but would rather just play guitar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes those that have it develop bridge bellies after two years or so.

 

 

 

 

Actually similar guitars with non adjustable bridges were available for other sellers. And again for me a CS guitar is a custom ordered guitar like Martin or Fender offer. Thus, perhaps the old limited edition decal would be a better choice.

 

Actually, I asked Jeremy Fuller what the difference was between my CS J45 and the other adjustable bridge J45’s that Musician Friend was selling as the 60s icon J45 and the written response he gave me was that the Fuller’s CS one that I bought differed from the non-CS ones because it has the mentioned same special vintage finish like the original, had the same lighter bracing as the original, and had a FON on the neck block...each to be more like the original unlike the special run line 60s icon J-45 model that Musicians Friend was offering at the time and didn’t have the CS designation.

 

Just what he told me.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who knows? I hear he just had a different opinion that may have been misinterpreted as a slight. Could have wrote a multi point response to this silliness but would rather just play guitar.

 

Or just cause trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, I asked Jeremy Fuller what the difference was between my CS J45 and the other adjustable bridge J45's that Musician Friend was selling as the 60s icon J45 and the written response he gave me was that the Fuller's CS one that I bought differed from the non-CS ones because it has the mentioned same special vintage finish like the original, had the same lighter bracing as the original, and had a FON on the neck block...each to be more like the original unlike the special run line 60s icon J-45 model that Musicians Friend was offering at the time and didn't have the CS designation.

 

Just what he told me.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

 

So non scalloped bracing? That would be an interesting twist...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went back and re-read what Jeremy Fuller sent to me. In summary he said the bracing on mine is lighter than the True Vintage model (at the time), only lighter to more closely mirror how the original J-45 in 1964 was (as opposed to the True Vintage model at the time. In the-reading his correspondence he actually said that the Icon J-45 through MF had the same lighter bracing as mine, but did not have the special vintage lacquer mine has. Also, mine has the FON number on the neck block (which re-reading his correspondence gives the impression that the True Vintage model or the Icon J-45 did not, although I can’t say for sure if it did or did not.)

 

I have no idea if mine has scalloped or unscalopped bracing. Only that it’s bracing is lighter than the TV at the time.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...