2019 SG Special

[pippy]

Wheres Charlie Brown? We need the horn taper police for this one :)

 

I'm sure we could always cope with more wood dressed-away...

 

Pip.

[Wild Bill 212]

Eh? Actually No.

 

It was more by way of rhetoric than being intended as a 'real' question and furthermore it wasn't specifically directed towards you - more as a musing for anyone in the forum to ponder.

I merely quoted the points you mentioned because they seemed particularly relevant to the guitar in question.

It's not personal.

 

As far as good value goes? Anything which costs $585 and is a POS is a complete and utter waste of money in my book but, clearly, and as I said earlier; we have very different ideas as regards what constitutes 'good value'.

 

I can live with that.

 

Pip.

 

If IF IF, you would buy this Guitar....you would be buying a Guitar, that I GUARANTEE, sounds very similar to the Guitar I CALLED A POS (and you quoted me as saying) here for $1500.

 

You say its not personal and back-hand me like that? Sure....

 

 

IF IF IF you realize that GIBSON USA is making these really cheap Guitars, that sound really good plugged in, then you MIGHT understand that what makes them really just a POS. THAT IS: what they sound like when they are not plugged in. I am not here to teach or preach anything,and people get mad when I say this: BUT it took me quite some time to realize that a GOOD GUITAR sounds just as GOOD PLUGGED IN as it does UN-PLUGGED. David Gilmour and Eddie Van Halen taught me that in interviews that I read w/them in the late 1980's.They both stated the same thing.It has rang true with me and I leave it at that.

 

The two 'Special' guitars I sold, the guys that bought them think they got really good deals on GIBSON Guitars, AND THEY DID get two guitars that sound BAD-A$$ PLUGGED IN....but they sound horrid UN-plugged and they are really just POS....... and I bet this 2019 'SG' Special just might be as well...the ear-markings are there and GIBSON USA........

[Rabs]

 

 

The two 'Special' guitars I sold, the guys that bought them think they got really good deals on GIBSON Guitars, AND THEY DID get two guitars that sound BAD-A$$ PLUGGED IN....but they sound horrid UN-plugged and they are really just POS....... and I bet this 2019 'SG' Special just might be as well...the ear-markings are there and GIBSON USA........

That makes no sense.

 

While there does seem to be a good rule that if a guitar sounds good unplugged it will sound good plugged in and is a good way to feel the vibe of a guitar its not 100% proof..

 

If you play a guitar plugged in and it sounds great, why would you even care what it sounds like unplugged cos no one can hear it anyway..??

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rabs

[NighthawkChris]

Not trying to add fuel to any fire here, but I have no experience with guitars that have the sole compensated stoptail piece - i.e. no bridge with saddles that can be adjusted for intonation. Gibson guitars set all their necks in the bodies, so each neck angle is different - hence variations on guitars that are produced. What if intonation cannot be set "acceptably"? Then you obviously shouldn't have that guitar - turn it in or sell it if it is a big issue (would be to me). I mean, I am not going on the premonition that all these have intonation issues, but I sort of agree with Wild Bill 212 here that this feature is not that great (again, my opinion) and is a vintage-like quality on a non-vintage guitar. I have been turned off by this guitar because the lack of a bridge - let alone what the cost is, I just accept that Gibson sells expensive guitars. Trying to dictate logic behind their prices is beyond my comprehension. All I can say to the price factor is if I don't like the price new, then I don't buy - simple as that. If I like the guitar, but don't like the price, that just sucks... Sometimes I buy if I really like it, otherwise I become conservative with my choice. If these don't sell at some price point, then the price will go down... In the end of the day, these have to sell - and retailers want to get what they can out of these. It's simple stuff really. Anyhow, that's what my useless opinion has to say here, haha! Don't care what the guitar costs - I don't prefer this guitar. SG's aren't my thing just like Nighthawks aren't someone else's thing. Regardless, best wishes, and I hope the OP enjoys this guitar in spite of others' opinions. In the end, that is what a "good" value guitar is - something that inspires you to make music that you enjoy playing.

[Wild Bill 212]

That makes no sense.

 

While there does seem to be a good rule that if a guitar sounds good unplugged it will sound good plugged in and is a good way to feel the vibe of a guitar its not a 100% proof..

 

If you play a guitar plugged in and it sounds great, why would you even care what it sounds like unplugged cos no one can hear it anyway..??

 

It makes perfect sense to me, let me clarify what Eddie Van Halen and David Gilmour BOTH stated in the interviews I read....THAT IS: a GOOD GUITAR sounds just as GOOD UN-PLUGGED as it does when it is PLUGGED-IN. David Gilmour even stated that he goes to the FENDER Factory in California and hand picks his new Guitars. He picks one up and strums it a few times and knows instantly, before even PLUGGING it in, whether or not IT MIGHT be worth PLUGGING IN and ultimately purchasing....and YES, Gilmour pays for his FENDER Guitars.

 

***WHETHER OR NOT YOU CARE WHAT A GUITAR SOUNDS LIKE UN-PLUGGED DOESN'T HAVE TO MATTER**** BUT, it might be a POS, is what I am getting at.For instance: the $585 SG Special I bought, KICKED A$ PLUGGED-IN..... BUT it was POS !!! but with the current price increase's @ GIBSON USA......it was a bargain.

 

I have been using this method of buying Guitars ever since I read those interviews and when I am paying over a certain dollar amount for a Guitar. If I just want a POS to dent the frets on for 6 months to a year, I will buy a POS 'STUDIO' or 'Special'....and not care what the Guitar sounds like when its NOT Plugged in.BUT IF I am going over what I think is BIG $ (and, over time, that changes with personal circumstances & FIAT Currency values) and up for a Guitar, I employ the method EVH and David Gilmour use to buy their Guitars....it has yet to fail me.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Wild Bill 212

[Rabs]

 

 

***WHETHER OR NOT YOU CARE WHAT A GUITAR SOUNDS LIKE UN-PLUGGED DOESN'T HAVE TO MATTER**** BUT, it might be a POS, is what I am getting at.For instance: the $585 SG Special I bought, KICKED A$ PLUGGED-IN..... BUT it was POS !!! but with the current price increase's @ GIBSON USA......it was a .

I understand the theory behind it.. Gary Moore said the same..

 

But what I dont get is why something is a POS if it doesnt sound good unplugged but plugged in..? What is it that made the SG a POS? If the ONLY reason is that it didnt sound good unplugged but everything else was ok then thats just silly.. I dont care if EVH or Gilmour say so, they would make any guitar sound good no matter what. If you plug a guitar in and it sounds and feels good, thats all that matters (most experienced players will tell you most of the sound comes from the player, not the guitar)

 

And thats not going to help you play or sound any better..

 

I have built about 20 guitars from scratch, while im not a good player I can probably tell you way more about guitar construction than either of those players you mentioned.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rabs

[Rabs]

Agreed on all counts.

 

---

 

I've owned many a Gibson and can opine that, considering every last variable related to guitars and amplification,

the 'unplugged thing' means precisely d*ck.

Well this is the thing..

 

I agree that often a guitar that rings unplugged will sound good plugged in.. But no one ever said that if it doesnt do that, that it means the guitar is total crap and worth less because of it.. No one has said that, its just an assumption people make based on a couple of lines in a couple of interviews..

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rabs

[pippy]

I've read this thread and must wonder what the point is, other than the neat looking

new SG that another Newbie, Bettyboo, was excited to share. I think that is one cool Special...

You are right, SeasonedNYer, of course. That is the whole point of the thread.

 

I think it's fair to say that a few of us are approaching this offering from several different angles;

 

Some think it's simply drop-dead gorgeous.

Some think it will be a great tone-machine.

Some think it overpriced.

Some think it under-spec'd.

Some think it's a great addition to the 2019 SG line-up.

Some think it will be a great addition to their SG herd.

 

Some of us, of course, will fall into more than one of those categories.

What is clear is that Gibson are putting into production a guitar which a fair number of people feel interesting enough to talk about in, generally speaking, a very positive fashion.

And that is to be welcomed.

 

...and can I just say the Horn Bevel Police have been considerate by their prolonged absence......................

 

Anyhow; to paraphrase Doc. Emmett Brown from 'Back to the Future';

"ABR-1 bridges? Where we're going we don't need ABR-1 Bridges!..."

 

Let 'em have it, Pete!

 

 

 

Pip.

[NighthawkChris]

Hey, at least with this guitar, there will be no debate whether or not to have the strings touch the back of the bridge because the tailpiece is too low...

 

In all honesty, it is nice to be civil in sharing opinions. I simply don't want to S on someone's parade when they really like a guitar and are excited about it. And I will not say that this guitar is a POS... It is a Gibson, and Gibson makes good guitars - with minor issues

Edited November 6, 2018 by NighthawkChris

[Rabs]

There is one other thing about all of this.. So far since the announcement of the change of management its this guitar and The Paul that have been released.

 

Im not sure if they were always planned or if this is the first sign of change from the new guy, but if it is him, so far I approve.

 

(Not that anyone needs my approval for anything :) )

[Wild Bill 212]

Well this is the thing..

 

I agree that often a guitar that rings unplugged will sound good plugged in.. But no one ever said that if it doesnt do that, that it means the guitar is total crap and worth less because of it.. No one has said that, its just an assumption people make based on a couple of lines in a couple of interviews..

 

NO, NO, thats not true .HFDY !!! The Gilmour and Van Halen interviews were actually quite detailed(King Biscuit had a great interview) and it is EXACTLY why I mentioned them...at that point in my life they taught me how to buy an Electric Guitar, what to look for and more importanly HEAR....You can find the interviews yourself if you want to waste your time Listening/Reading them.

 

I tend to believe people when they are NOT getting paid to do something and are successful. Like a Race-Car driver pointing out a particular engine that HONDA manufactures that has NEVER failed during racing competition during the entire career of the said Race-Car Driver. AAMOF, it is the reason I have the car I drive right now, the ENGINE being mentioned by a Race-Car Driver as the Best & Most Durable engine ever.......and I am glad I listened too, its BAD-A$$ and runs like a RAPED APE and the Engine's Model#....J31Z1(I Think!)....The J35Y1 was the closest I could get to it in a mass production model, but point is, I listened to someone that had success with a certain engine. Just as w/EVH,Gilmour (especially) and others too that have said similar things that I've heard over the decades.....

 

 

 

[Rabs]

NO, NO, thats not true .HFDY !!! The Gilmour and Van Halen interviews were actually quite detailed(King Biscuit had a great interview) and it is EXACTLY why I mentioned them...at that point in my life they taught me how to buy an Electric Guitar, what to look for and more importanly HEAR....You can find the interviews yourself if you want to waste your time Listening/Reading them.

 

I tend to believe people when they are NOT getting paid to do something and are successful. Like a Race-Car driver pointing out a particular engine that HONDA manufactures that has NEVER failed during racing competition during the entire career of the said Race-Car Driver. AAMOF, it is the reason I have the car I drive right now, the ENGINE being mentioned by a Race-Car Driver as the Best & Most Durable engine ever.......and I am glad I listened too, its BAD-A$$ and runs like a RAPED APE and the Engine's Model#....J31Z1(I Think!)....The J35Y1 was the closest I could get to it in a mass production model, but point is, I listened to someone that had success with a certain engine. Just as w/EVH,Gilmour (especially) and others too that have said similar things that I've heard over the decades.....

How about listening to someone who actually builds guitars then?

 

You listen to what these players say probably because you love thier music and playing as I do.. But they would play well and sound good on any reasonable guitar set up because they have worked hard at being great players.. Ive played really nice guitars that cost fifty quid at a car boot sale..

 

And yet again.. Just because a guitar doesnt sound amazing unplugged doesnt automatically mean it will sound bad plugged in, you have just assumed that. Thats just a fact that all my playing and experience has taught me.. let alone actually building them for the last six or

seven years and having talked to many many experienced players on here for like the last eight years.

 

You are not wrong for following the advice of those players if it worked for you, but you are wrong to totally dismiss what we are saying just because its different from what you know.

 

We all have different ways of doing things , different tastes and expectations so what ever works for you or anyone else is fine by me.. But even the word of David Gilmour (who I love by the way) is not law when it comes to this as we are all so different as is every guitar. Whats good for one person may not be so for the next, neither are wrong or right.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Rabs

[Bettyboo]

Some thoughts on the bridge of this special - it works well on the 2018 jnr, and that isn't even compensated.

 

When I bought the 2018 jnr, I was planning to buy a mojoaxe compensated bridge to put on it, but held off for a couple of months to get used to the guitar; now, I won't be changing the bridge because it works fine for me. I would say that theoretically the intonation is gonna be way off kilter at points on the neck, but when I play the intonation's fine for me. I actually prefer the wraparound tailpiece all in one over the std set up of bridge and tailpiece now, but agree that you need a well put together guitar (especially neck angle) to have it play well.

 

I noticed on a couple of forums that many folks thought the 2018 jnrs were over-priced/bad value, but I've never seen anybody make that comment after they've played one. As I've said, I reckon the 2017 std is an excellent guitar, so I went out to buy one for $1100 new, but ended up buying the jnr for $1500 after playing both side-by-side. Not knocking the standard at all, great guitar, but these jnrs are really amazing - if you get the chance, play one; I hope the 2019 special will be the same, and I've already paid out my $1500 in anticipation.

 

I suspect, I'll regret not buying a 2018 DC, but when I looked at one the colour looked mustard, fugly to my eyes...

Edited November 7, 2018 by Bettyboo

[Wild Bill 212]

How about listening to someone who actually builds guitars then?

 

You listen to what these players say probably because you love thier music and playing as I do.. But they would play well and sound good on any reasonable guitar set up because they have worked hard at being great players.. Ive played really nice guitars that cost fifty quid at a car boot sale..

 

And yet again.. Just because a guitar doesnt sound amazing unplugged doesnt automatically mean it will sound bad plugged in, you have just assumed that. Thats just a fact that all my playing and experience has taught me.. let alone actually building them for the last six or

seven years and having talked to many many experienced players on here for like the last eight years.

 

You are not wrong for following the advice of those players if it worked for you, but you are wrong to totally dismiss what we are saying just because its different from what you know.

 

We all have different ways of doing things , different tastes and expectations so what ever works for you or anyone else is fine by me.. But even the word of David Gilmour (who I love by the way) is not law when it comes to this as we are all so different as is every guitar. Whats good for one person may not be so for the next, neither are wrong or right.

 

 

I WENT PURPOSELY OFF TOPIC HERE...... BECAUSE i WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE ONE REALLY SIMPLE POINT,AND THAT IS ALL.

 

A GOOD GUITAR SOUNDS JUST AS GOOD UN-PLUGGED AS IT DOES PLUGGED-IN.

 

if you wasted your time reading what I just erased, well......I still believe that what I said about a good guitar is true, I will never think other-wise...its one of those things.

 

Edited November 7, 2018 by Wild Bill 212

[NighthawkChris]

Some thoughts on the bridge of this special - it works well on the 2018 jnr, and that isn't even compensated.

 

When I bought the 2018 jnr, I was planning to buy a mojoaxe compensated bridge to put on it, but held off for a couple of months to get used to the guitar; now, I won't be changing the bridge because it works fine for me. I would say that theoretically the intonation is gonna be way off kilter at points on the neck, but when I play the intonation's fine for me. I actually prefer the wraparound tailpiece all in one over the std set up of bridge and tailpiece now, but agree that you need a well put together guitar (especially neck angle) to have it play well.

 

I noticed on a couple of forums that many folks thought the 2018 jnrs were over-priced/bad value, but I've never seen anybody make that comment after they've played one. As I've said, I reckon the 2017 std is an excellent guitar, so I went out to buy one for $1100 new, but ended up buying the jnr for $1500 after playing both side-by-side. Not knocking the standard at all, great guitar, but these jnrs are really amazing - if you get the chance, play one; I hope the 2019 special will be the same, and I've already paid out my $1500 in anticipation.

 

I suspect, I'll regret not buying a 2018 DC, but when I looked at one the colour looked mustard, fugly to my eyes...

 

Hope that you enjoy your new guitar and many years of enjoyment. Best wishes!

[FemmeParallell]

I ordered the Pelham Blue - the Burgundy looks good in the pictures, but a special in Pelham Blue can't be overlooked.

 

Regarding the price, I know it looks high, but I don't think it actually is. I have a 2018 SG junior that cost the same price and that isn't over-priced, imho. I'll explain: I went into a shop to buy either a 2017 LP Classic or a 2017 SG standard (both were around $1500 at the time due to sales, new 2018 stock, etc), and I played/looked at a lot of guitars. Comparing the standard to the junior, to me, the quality of fit and finish, the sound and the playability of the junior was far superior (I went with a friend who played them both and he just presumed the junior was the much more expensive guitar). I went in expecting to buy the standard, but ended up with the junior and it's the best guitar I've ever owned or played by a distance (I've had 2 previous Gibson SGs).

 

Gibson Custom had/has the historic LP juniors 57/58/? that were selling for about $2500-3000, and the 2018 LP/SG juniors (and I hope this 2019 special too) seem to be closer to those than the SG standard in quality of woods, fit and finish, etc. That's probably why they changed the headstock logo and didn't put three in a line tuners - they needed to keep some differences between the 2018 USA juniors and the Custom Shop juniors - I really believe that the 2018 juniors are excellent value for money. Also, factoring in the case then comparing it to a 2019 standard which doesn't come with a case, the SG special seems like a good price to me - especially for a rarely made guitar by Gibson.

 

 

Nice! show us a pic when you get it the only reason i dont like the price tag is because i cant afford it right now hehe, no other reason, i already have 2 SG's (one with P-90s and one with humbuckers) so im pretty much covered, but that blue one sure looks sexy!

[Wild Bill 212]

Fine by me.

 

We have very different likes and dislikes and different ideas of what constitutes 'good value'. No biggie.

 

Pip.

 

YOU DO REALIZE WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE WHEN YOU SAY WHAT YOU JUST SAID, ABOUT OUR HAVING DIFFERRING OPINIONS ON WHAT CONSTITUTTES GOOD VALUE, AND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BUYING THE SAME GUITAR, LOL !!! THE DIFFERENCE BEING ONLY THREE YEARS LATER (and one has p-90's) AND YOUR GOING TO PAY OVER $1,000 MORE FOR IT ? YOU DO REALIZE WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE , YES? I DO NOT FIND IT NECESSARY TO TELL YOU, AS YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE IT OUT....BWAH HA HA HA ! OMG, MY RIBS HURT.....THERE YOU ARE TRYING TO SOUND INTELLIGENT, OMG ,I COULDN'T MAKE THIS UP....

 

2016 SG Special=$585 NEW2019 SG Special=$1500 NEW , some expensive P-90's huh? NOW, IDK if u even figured out my point, about both of them.......BUT, THEY ARE.....

 

GIBSON DOT COM

Edited November 8, 2018 by Wild Bill 212

[Bettyboo]

 

 

2016 SG Special=$585 NEW2019 SG Special=$1500 NEW

 

While these are both very good guitars, they are very different:

 

 

 

Obvious differences are:

 

nitro finish / satin finish

mahogany neck / maple neck

P90s / mini-buckers

case / gigbag

binding / no binding

dots / block inlays

rolled fret edges / no rolled fret edges

A grade woods (whatever that means...) / matched pieces - I would say the 'A grade woods' on my 2018 jnr are truly beautiful compared to say the 'matched pieces' of my SG faded.

& a few other differences such as the bridge/tailpiece.

 

The nitro finish, rolled edges, case, binding and wood selection all cost money (some folks may not want to pay for some/any of these features, but they all link to cost of manufacture), so the 2019 special would take longer and cost more money to produce than the 2016.

 

It comes down to individual interpretations of cost vs value, to me the 2018 jnr was great value because it plays better and sounds better than other SGs I've owned, and I play it more, enjoy it more and it just makes me feel happier. Other folks will feel differently.

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Bettyboo

[Big Bill]

YOU DO REALIZE WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE WHEN YOU SAY WHAT YOU JUST SAID, ABOUT OUR HAVING DIFFERRING OPINIONS ON WHAT CONSTITUTTES GOOD VALUE, AND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BUYING THE SAME GUITAR, LOL !!! THE DIFFERENCE BEING ONLY THREE YEARS LATER (and one has p-90's) AND YOUR GOING TO PAY OVER $1,000 MORE FOR IT ? YOU DO REALIZE WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE , YES? I DO NOT FIND IT NECESSARY TO TELL YOU, AS YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIGURE IT OUT....BWAH HA HA HA ! OMG, MY RIBS HURT.....THERE YOU ARE TRYING TO SOUND INTELLIGENT, OMG ,I COULDN'T MAKE THIS UP....

 

2016 SG Special=$585 NEW2019 SG Special=$1500 NEW , some expensive P-90's huh? NOW, IDK if u even figured out my point, about both of them.......BUT, THEY ARE.....

 

GIBSON DOT COM

 

You get a private U2 pic

 

 

[pippy]

...YOU DO REALIZE WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE , YES?...

Compared to you and your contribution to this thread?

Sane.

 

Pip.

Edited November 9, 2018 by pippy

[Wild Bill 212]

Compared to you and your contribution to this thread?

Sane.

 

Pip.

 

PPFFF, dont flatter yourself......FACE IT,anything less than a GIBSON USA 'STANDARD' is, for the most part...a POS ! and some of them are suspect too. I was hesitant to say it as these days people have become so fragile and take offense so easily. I AM NOT ONE SUCH, but you and your buying the same Guitar, only three years later and then your insinuating that you have some superior taste? YOU MAKE ME LAUGH...and BTW, its your $1,000, NOT MINE !BWAH HA HA !!!

 

Since GIBSON USA issued 'Specials' during the 50's...'THE PAUL's & 'The 'SG's of the late 70's-early 80's, then flat out issuing 'STUDIO' Models in the early 80's, they have tried to capture the part of the Guitar buying market that can not afford a 'REAL' STANDARD GUITAR.......those 'STANDARD GUITARS' being the Guitars Ted McCarty brought to market and made ICONIC SUPERSTARS. These 'Les(s) than' Guitars are not always half-bad, and I call them POS because compared to most 'STANDARDS', that is what they are.......and the way to tell the difference is to play them BOTH UN-PLUGGED....you get what you pay for! You want a REAL STANDARD, PAY FOR IT (or STEAL IT, IDC !) but FFS !....NO, I'll not repeat myself PUPSY.

 

I HAVE YOUR SANITY, YEAH I DO.......RIGHT HERE, ANYTIME.IDKATLAWA !

Edited November 9, 2018 by Wild Bill 212

[Rabs]

Compared to you and your contribution to this thread?

Sane.

 

Pip.

Man I dont know why you bothered giving him more reason to post.. We have both seen his type many times on here and its just better to ignore it...

[pippy]

Man I dont know why you bothered giving him more reason to post...

Oh, I just find it mildly diverting Rabs.

He's so delightfully dim and it really doesn't take up too much of my time.

 

 

Pip.

[sellen]

sg special are supercool in the 60's styling

This one is on the used marked, in my corner of the world. About the same $ as the new Special Tempting

[pippy]

sg special are supercool in the 60's styling

This one is on the used marked, in my corner of the world. About the same $ as the new Special Tempting...

Oh MY!!!

 

 

Even the Bevel Police would approve of that one, sellen! Utterly GORGEOUS!

Is that one a Re-Issue, though? It looks too good to be otherwise.

 

 

Pip.

 

EDIT : I missed this one earlier...

 

Yes! Easily one of the tastiest offerings from the last few years.

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by pippy