Wild Bill 212 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Just the other day I was insulted by someone here who THINKS they know that GIBSON USA did NOT start calling the LES PAUL "STANDARD" the LES PAUL STANDARD until 1974-1975. HOWEVER, since GIBSON has scaled back its website (and was unavailable over the weekend ) and IDC that much, I took a quick look @ WIKIPEDIA.org 's page on the GIBSON LES PAUL, and they say the GIBSON LES PAUL STANDARD was produced from 1958-1960 and then again from 1968-PRESENT, which would make "MARY" in-correct, it would. HHHHHMMMMM....... Now, I do not consider Wikipedia.org, the end all authority on any subject ,especially Guitars.........(I have already stated that I am no expert)....Wikipedia.org has even gone so far as to re-write History on occasion as I have seen with my own eyes. BUT this one time THEY MAY BE RIGHT. WIKIPEDIA knew about 'THE PAUL' and when it was issued and the same with the 'The SG" .....so....ANYBODY GOT ANY REAL PROOF AS TO WHEN THE LES PAUL "STANDARD" WAS ACTUALLY MANUFACTURED/ISSUED by GIBSON USA ? As I have stated twice now: I am no expert and IF IF IF WIKIPEDIA is correct, and the LES PAUL STANDARD has been manufactured, as they state HERE: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Les_Paul that would mean "MARY" is not as smart as she thinks she is, YA GOT THAT "MARY"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparquelito Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I'm guessing you don't care for Mary all that much. Fjestad's Blue Book describes the Les Paul and Les Paul Standard lineage like so: LES PAUL MODEL (GOLD TOP, 1952-58 MFG.) LES PAUL STANDARD SUNBURST (1958-1960 MFG.) LES PAUL (SG BODY STYLE 1960-63 MFG.) LES PAUL STANDARD GOLD TOP REISSUE (1968-69 MFG.) LES PAUL STANDARD '58 (GOLD TOP, 1971-75 MFG.) LES PAUL STANDARD (1974-1997 MFG., LPS) LES PAUL STANDARD '82 ("Standard '82" on truss cover, nickel plated hardware, limited mfg. in Kalamazoo before plant closed) LES PAUL SUNBURST '59 REISSUE (1983-85 MFG.) LES PAUL STANDARD (1998-2004, LP PREFIX) Les Paul Standard w/50s or 60s Neck (LPS5/LPS6) 2002-08 Les Paul Standard Faded 50s/60s Neck (LP5F) 2005-08 Les Paul Standard Raw Power 2001-02 Les Paul Standard Lite (LPLI) 1999-01 Les Paul Standard Bird's-eye 1993-95 Les Paul Standard Plus (LPS+) 1997-01 Les Paul Standard Premium Plus (LPPP) 2001-08 ......and there were dozens of models of Les Paul Standards after 2008, but I'm getting tired of typing right now. I hope this helps. :mellow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 So yea,, they're full of CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP.. Tony Bacon put out a very good book on Les Pauls, that has pretty much every fact at the time of publishing that you would ever need to know. Google it, not expensive, and a good read. I have settled a few arrangements using this as a reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 When I was a kid my first Les Paul was a Custom. Then another Custom. Then a Les Paul. There were Les Pauls, Customs, and Deluxes. I think the confusion is that the word Standard is applied retroactively. They may very well have been Standards, but we did not call them that until much later. I think the Bacon book explains it. Mine is in the bottom of a box, packed away for moving the studio out. I don't feel like getting it out. We also walked to school up hill. In both directions. And we raked leaves uphill into a 27 knot headwind. Every year. rct *edit: The 50's Les Pauls I played in my youth, from a beat down 53 or so Gold Top to a few late 50's Les Pauls with wonderful PAFs in them, were just Les Pauls. We didn't call them Standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 So someone not knowing that the LP Standard started being called Standard until '58 or '59 insults you. This is the s-hit that keeps you up at night. You got personal stuff to work out. And stop typing in all caps its annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Yes, I'm fully aware of the model you mean. To avoid confusion the guitar in question is usually referred to as the '68 Goldtop. Here's why; The new (for 1968) president of Gibson, Stan Rendell, wanted to re-release the Standard and Custom at that year's NAMM show. Somewhere along the way the specs of the intended 'Standard' were changed and the guitar debuted with cream-plastic covered single coils. To avoid confusion with the '58-'60 humbucker equipped Les Pauls Rendell wanted to change the name but some pre-publicity releases and press-photos had already been printed. A considerable amount of confusion followed as the guitar which was shown was certainly not what dealers - nor what guitarists - were expecting from a Les Paul Standard. The person directly behind the re-introduction of these guitars, Rendell (and pretty much everyone else), always referred to the new guitar in print henceforth as the '68 Goldtop. Bacon, likewise, always calls it the same - both in the body-copy and in his appendix ("Goldtop fifth version"). Some 1968 post-NAMM press-releases, even more confusingly, referred to it as the "newly released Les Paul Special" (ref: Ian C. Bishop). There is a good basis for this intended '68 G-T designation. Prior to the publication of the 1960 Gibson catalogue the guitar we know as the 'Standard' was officially just called the "Les Paul Guitar" in official lists. As the '56 Goldtop was clearly the basis for the '68 version the name '68 Goldtop would have been an accurate one. As it turned out no-one particularly liked the new 'Standard' and it was hastily redesigned - and renamed - for the following year when it was shown as the well-known Les Paul DeLuxe. As stated earlier the official full-size humbucker equipped Standard didn't come out until c. 1975 although there have been several '72-'73 'Standards' shown here in this forum which were simply a DeLuxe routed-out for full-size humbuckers at the Parsons Street plant. If unmodified these all featured a 'DeLuxe' stamped TRC. Someone who used to be here on a regular basis has a genuine '74 Standard and Bacon officially lists one having been released in '75. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 that would mean "MARY" is not as smart as she thinks she is, YA GOT THAT "MARY"? Yes, I'm fully aware of the model you mean. To avoid confusion the guitar in question is usually referred to as the '68 Goldtop. Here's why; The new (for 1968) president of Gibson, Stan Rendell, wanted to re-release the Standard and Custom at that year's NAMM show. Somewhere along the way the specs of the intended 'Standard' were changed and the guitar debuted with cream-plastic covered single coils. To avoid confusion with the '58-'60 humbucker equipped Les Pauls Rendell wanted to change the name but some pre-publicity releases and press-photos had already been printed. A considerable amount of confusion followed as the guitar which was shown was certainly not what dealers - nor what guitarists - were expecting from a Les Paul Standard. The person directly behind the re-introduction of these guitars, Rendell (and pretty much everyone else), always referred to the new guitar in print henceforth as the '68 Goldtop. Bacon, likewise, always calls it the same - both in the body-copy and in his appendix ("Goldtop fifth version"). Some 1968 post-NAMM press-releases, even more confusingly, referred to it as the "newly released Les Paul Special" (ref: Ian C. Bishop). There is a good basis for this intended '68 G-T designation. Prior to the publication of the 1960 Gibson catalogue the guitar we know as the 'Standard' was officially just called the "Les Paul Guitar" in official lists. As the '56 Goldtop was clearly the basis for the '68 version the name '68 Goldtop would have been an accurate one. As it turned out no-one particularly liked the new 'Standard' and it was hastily redesigned - and renamed - for the following year when it was shown as the well-known Les Paul DeLuxe. As stated earlier the official full-size humbucker equipped Standard didn't come out until c. 1975 although there have been several '72-'73 'Standards' shown here in this forum which were simply a DeLuxe routed-out for full-size humbuckers at the Parsons Street plant. If unmodified these all featured a 'DeLuxe' stamped TRC. Someone who used to be here on a regular basis has a genuine '74 Standard and Bacon officially lists one having been released in '75. Pip. Or maybe "she" is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I think whiskey may have been involved in these recent posts. Just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I think whiskey may have been involved in these recent posts. Just saying... I suppose I could always plead guilty to a "guid dose o' Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face-ing" as part of the Burns Night Festivities?...... Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eracer_Team Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Good info Pip I think Mary knows "her" stuff Or maybe since I'm in Canada that MaryJ?? Mr Bill, check out this video, its really good info http://www.solidbodiesthemovie.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I suppose I could always plead guilty to a "guid dose o' Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face-ing" as part of the Burn's Night Festivities?...... Pip. I'm sure you know I wasn't referring to your posts. Besides, you don't seem the whiskey type! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mihcmac Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I have always found Pippy's info to be quite helpful and very accurate. Specially when I may be on the verge of going off the Mezcal deep end.. Gotta watch out when you crunch the worm, it will get you every time... But the reliability of reports from Pippy I have though to be very high... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 No; not really although I do like the likes of Talisker and the Islay malts in particular. Burns' Night is one of our staple evenings of festivity and we 'always' have a ceilidh at our place to which we invite some of our dearest, oldest and closest friends to sample haggis, neeps, tatties, recitations of Burns' poetry and a 'nippy sweetie' (i.e. uisge-beatha - AKA whisky) to chase the tattie-bogles away but due to prior commitments we didn't have the opportunity this time around. Hey-Ho. There's always next year! Slainte math, everyone! Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Well I thank you gentlemen for your kind comments but I have to say that there are some points in the original ('Custom Shop Custom / '68 LP Custom reissue?) thread which, annoyingly, I can't quite pin down with any accuracy whatsoever so I'm acutely aware I still have quite a bit to learn. But as I enjoy learning new (to me) info it's all good clean fun. Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 When it comes to Gibson's, I'll go with Pippy over Wikipedia every time. But, yes, there does seem to be an unsolved mystery about this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 When it comes to Gibson's, I'll go with Pippy over Wikipedia every time. But, yes, there does seem to be an unsolved mystery about this guitar. Sorry Pippy, that should have said "And, yes," not "but, yes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 ...when...Gibson first called a Les Paul a LP Standard? I'm going late 50's - 58 or 59... According to most employees who commented on this when interviewed by Gil Hembree the 'Standard' was always called the 'regular' in Parsons Street until sometime around late '59 early 1960. Certainly as can be seen in the 1958 catalogue the 'Standard' was still officially called the Les Paul Guitar - even although the guitar illustrated was from 1956(!) ........If you read the description it specifies "Two powerful humbucking pickups"... This model was still only available in Goldtop finish when this catalogue was printed. There was no catalogue for the '59 model-year but for the 1960 catalogue the 'burst was finally being called the Les Paul Standard by Gibson; ...so some time around the end of 1959 would be a good guess informally and 1960 was the first time it was officially called a Standard in print by Gibson. Sorry Pippy, that should have said "And, yes," not "but, yes"... I knew what you meant although, in reality, actually both versions are equally valid in their own ways! Thanks for the thought! Pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 No; not really although I do like the likes of Talisker and the Islay malts in particular. Burns' Night is one of our staple evenings of festivity and we 'always' have a ceilidh at our place to which we invite some of our dearest, oldest and closest friends to sample haggis, neeps, tatties, recitations of Burns' poetry and a 'nippy sweetie' (i.e. uisge-beatha - AKA whisky) to chase the tattie-bogles away but due to prior commitments we didn't have the opportunity this time around. Hey-Ho. There's always next year! Slainte math, everyone! Pip. Is Johnny Walker as nice as they say he is? Asking for a friend. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 What ever happened to just chugging down a fifth of Rebel Yell in an ally behind the dumpster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill 212 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 So someone not knowing that the LP Standard started being called Standard until '58 or '59 insults you. This is the s-hit that keeps you up at night. You got personal stuff to work out. And stop typing in all caps its annoying. NO, not at all, insulting me is what makes me think what a $#!THEAD I am dealing with here......and when I sleep is nonya......YOU DONT KNOW ME , DR FREUD, so save your PSYCHO-analysis for someone you actually know........ HERE ARE SOME MORE CAPS, ESPECIALLY FOR YOU OK, FZ ?? HOW YA LIKE THAT? I asked a question ,if you wanted to answer it, Great!, IF NOT IDGAS........ is there a '68 STANDARD or not? was the question...and I repeated myself, just this one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill 212 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 Back in '58 was the company or department called Gibson USA? I'll bet Mary knows. Are you trying to split hairs, or find out when the guitar manufacturer we all call Gibson first called a Les Paul a LP Standard? I'm going late 50's - 58 or 59. maybe MARY does know, I never said I was an expert, NO.....Some Proof is what is required here. '68 STANDARD or NOT ? That is the question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill 212 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 What ever happened to just chugging down a fifth of Rebel Yell in an ally behind the dumpster? That **** went out with the 70's, its Afghani orange now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill 212 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 Or maybe "she" is... I doubt it, WISE-***, certainly. SMART, as in intelligent? NO........doubt it......Lets see a '68 advertisement, not one from 1958....I will not state the obvious, WAIT, I already did..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill 212 Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 SO.......RECAP: some amateur Psych-analysis, maybe a back-handed insult or two, some more "People telling other people what to do...." (as if anyone would actually LISTEN?),.some alcoholic/drug(?) yearnings wonderings,..........and what looks like some ads from the 1950's......BUT no more definitive word on whether or not there was a 1968 Les Paul STANDARD issued by GIBSON Guitar company........... I'm not surprised, a li'l disappointed ? Nah, even I did not call GIBSON USA for the 'word'....... MAYBE WIKIPEDIA is correct..........THEY SAY THERE WAS, MARY ! and I did too....SO, I STAND BY MY STATEMENT (in CAPS TOO !). 18004GIBSON I bet someone at that number knows the answer, but right now tho? IADGAS......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 yep. Johnny Walker. Good luck man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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