A Songwriter's Songwriter

[Holiday Hoser]

Watched a great documentary on Kris Kristofferson hosted by Steve Earle. And while I am kind of jealous in the fact people like Earle or Jerry Jeff Walker made a living as a musician of only a couple minor hits.

Kris truly turned Nashville and the art of songwriting on it's head. Did you know he was a Rhodes scholar educated at Oxford, a military trained helicopter pilot and the living embodiment of "A Star is Born"?

 

[livemusic]

Watched a great documentary on Kris Kristofferson hosted by Steve Earle. And while I am kind of jealous in the fact people like Earle or Jerry Jeff Walker made a living as a musician of only a couple minor hits.

Kris truly turned Nashville and the art of songwriting on it's head. Did you know he was a Rhodes scholar educated at Oxford, a military trained helicopter pilot and the living embodiment of "A Star is Born"?

 

 

Yep, aware of all those things. Where ya been? Lol.

 

Kris, without a doubt, is awesome but Steve Earle is one helluva songwriter, one of the best, IMO, and has written WAY more songs than Kris. Of course, the latter got drawn into Hollywood. Plus, Steve Earle would never become huge due to his rebel nature and honesty and his willingness to write about it. Which some of us like.

 

I look forward to seeing the video, not sure I have seen it and I have seen a many a video.

[QuestionMark]

Watched a great documentary on Kris Kristofferson hosted by Steve Earle. And while I am kind of jealous in the fact people like Earle or Jerry Jeff Walker made a living as a musician of only a couple minor hits.

Kris truly turned Nashville and the art of songwriting on it's head. Did you know he was a Rhodes scholar educated at Oxford, a military trained helicopter pilot and the living embodiment of "A Star is Born"?

 

 

Not sure how you can reference Jerry Jeff Walker’s songwriting of Mr. Bojangles as a minor hit. More like a mega American classic song that’s a crossover of country, outlaw, Tin Pan Alley, folk, blues, and jazz genres.

 

Plus, JJW played an intricate role in bringing Guy Clark’s songwriting to the forfront of country music and JJW played an intricate role in starting the Austin music scene and in songwriters’ legal rights to have initial first rights to record their own songs.

 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[livemusic]

Not sure how you can reference Jerry Jeff Walker’s songwriting of Mr. Bojangles as a minor hit. More like a mega American classic song that’s a crossover of country, outlaw, Tin Pan Alley, folk, blues, and jazz genres.

 

Plus, JJW played an intricate role in bringing Guy Clark’s songwriting to the forfront of country music and JJW played an intricate role in starting the Austin music scene and in songwriters’ legal rights to have initial first rights to record their own songs.

 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

I am a huge JJW fan. An artist I cannot do without. He certainly was huge in the Texas music scene. I was happy to be able to shake his hand one day and thanked him.

 

The emboldened part above, can you expand on that?

[dhanners623]

I think we can honor and acknowledge Kristofferson's talent without denigrating Earle and Walker. The later two are amazing in their own right, and as much as I like all three, Earle is probably the most versatile songwriter of the trio. That doesn't take anything away from Kris, though.

 

And yeah, him landing a helicopter on Johnny Cash's lawn so he could get Cash to record "Sunday Morning Comin' Down" is pretty much the stuff of legend.

 

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/kris-kristofferson-army

[QuestionMark]

I am a huge JJW fan. An artist I cannot do without. He certainly was huge in the Texas music scene. I was happy to be able to shake his hand one day and thanked him.

 

The emboldened part above, can you expand on that?

 

Someone initially heard JJW sing Mr. Bojangles and then recorded JJW’s Mr. Bojangles, I believe when he still resides in New York and the recording by the other person received some minor air play in New York. JJW felt that he as the songwriter of the song should be able to control who records his song and sued the artist who recorded his song without his permission. A landmark legal decision was made that still is in effect that ruled JJW had the right as the song’s songwriter to have first dibs on recording his own song, before the song became allowable to be recorded by others. JJW received the recording royalties back from the artist who recorded the song and had the other artist’s pulled from distribution. JJW then recorded the song and had the national hit of the song, and then of course the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band them covered it and the rest is history (including countless others recording it including Sammy Davis Jr, etc.)

 

The landmark ruling, which still stands, gave all songwriters the right to be the first to record their own song and the right of first refusal if someone else wants to initially record or initially records their song without their permission. The ruling also made it clear that once the songwriter records their own song (or gives another the right to have the first recording of it) then anyone else is free to record it (although licensing royalties of course still need to be paid.)

 

Something we now take as standard practice, but didn’t exist before JJW’s stand and legal action on the matter.

 

JJW was a great part of the real outlaw movement where songwriters and artists began to control their own music.

 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[livemusic]

Wow, I think I know a lot about songwriting and I did not know this. I also don't see the info mentioned on the Wikipedia page. I also could not find this info via a few google searches using different words. If you ever come across a source, I would love to see it. Not disputing you, just curious.

 

 

Someone initially heard JJW sing Mr. Bojangles and then recorded JJW’s Mr. Bojangles, I believe when he still resides in New York and the recording by the other person received some minor air play in New York. JJW felt that he as the songwriter of the song should be able to control who records his song and sued the artist who recorded his song without his permission. A landmark legal decision was made that still is in effect that ruled JJW had the right as the song’s songwriter to have first dibs on recording his own song, before the song became allowable to be recorded by others. JJW received the recording royalties back from the artist who recorded the song and had the other artist’s pulled from distribution. JJW then recorded the song and had the national hit of the song, and then of course the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band them covered it and the rest is history (including countless others recording it including Sammy Davis Jr, etc.)

 

The landmark ruling, which still stands, gave all songwriters the right to be the first to record their own song and the right of first refusal if someone else wants to initially record or initially records their song without their permission. The ruling also made it clear that once the songwriter records their own song (or gives another the right to have the first recording of it) then anyone else is free to record it (although licensing royalties of course still need to be paid.)

 

Something we now take as standard practice, but didn’t exist before JJW’s stand and legal action on the matter.

 

JJW was a great part of the real outlaw movement where songwriters and artists began to control their own music.

 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[QuestionMark]

Read JJW’s autobiography. I believe it should still be available on his website. Or, deep dive into copyright law. As with most things, there’s a whole lot more to a lot of things than the overviews on Wikipedia.

 

I am proud to say I’ve had a publishing dealing with JJW’s wife Susan Walker (JJW’s manager) and found her to have been totally honest in her business practices; am a friend of JJW’s though I haven’t seen him in a number of years now; and when his bass player, Bob Livingston, tours in Chicagoland, I am his lead guitar player (and organize his pickup band in Chicago.)

 

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[MissouriPicker]

Yep, Kristofferson was/is a lot of things. No doubt a great songwriter is part of the mix. While Kris got a lot of well-known hits, don't think Jerry Jeff Walker is a minor player. Big songwriter, producer, and still performing "live" shows in roadhouses. A very gracious man who had no issue introducing up-and-coming talent to Jack Clement, Cash, Chet Atkins, and other country/folk royaltry. As mentioned, Mister Bo Jangles crossed all genres and generations. Add to that his recording of the Mel Tillis song, Detroit City (mega big song). He also has had a string of country hit songs.. Walker has played a huge role in the folk/country/outlaw/rock-a-billy genres. Marty Stuart tells stories of himself, Johnny Cash, Guy Clark, Keith Richards, and Jerry Jeff Walker all out on Cash's houseboat at 2am writing songs, telling tall tales and smoking. Kris has a lot of similar stories (in-particular, ones linked to Cash) and like all legends, they're "partly truth and partly fiction." He was a helicopter pilot, but we don't really know if he actually landed a chopper in Cash's front yard and gave him a copy of Sunday Mornin' Coming Down." We do know that Cash and Kris became very good friends and that adds to the legend and it's the kind of story fits nicely with Cash's image of doing things his way and Kris's image as a down and almost out guy struggling to get back on his feet. Another part of the story is that Kris took a janitor job at Columbia Records in Nashville so that he could maybe meet Cash and perhaps give him a few songs and that Cash said after listening to a couple "the guy can't sing" and threw the songs ( on cassettes) into Old Hickory Lake. Another story is that Cash and June were home one morning and Janis Joplin's recording of "Bobby McGee" was on the radio. Cash said,"Damn, that's a good song. I wonder why Kris didn't give me that one?," and June replied, "He did, but you threw it in the lake." This is all part of the legends that revolve around people who are literally "bigger than life." What's cool about a legend is that at least part of it is true.

[livemusic]

Major fan of JJW but I am not aware of him doing Detroit City. Bobby Bare is who you are thinking of? Kind of similar voices and similar look. But, I may be wrong, artists do lots of covers.

 

Yep, Kristofferson was/is a lot of things. No doubt a great songwriter is part of the mix. While Kris got a lot of well-known hits, don't think Jerry Jeff Walker is a minor player. Big songwriter, producer, and still performing "live" shows in roadhouses. A very gracious man who had no issue introducing up-and-coming talent to Jack Clement, Cash, Chet Atkins, and other country/folk royaltry. As mentioned, Mister Bo Jangles crossed all genres and generations. Add to that his recording of the Mel Tillis song, Detroit City (mega big song). He also has had a string of country hit songs.. Walker has played a huge role in the folk/country/outlaw/rock-a-billy genres. Marty Stuart tells stories of himself, Johnny Cash, Guy Clark, Keith Richards, and Jerry Jeff Walker all out on Cash's houseboat at 2am writing songs, telling tall tales and smoking. Kris has a lot of similar stories (in-particular, ones linked to Cash) and like all legends, they're "partly truth and partly fiction." He was a helicopter pilot, but we don't really know if he actually landed a chopper in Cash's front yard and gave him a copy of Sunday Mornin' Coming Down." We do know that Cash and Kris became very good friends and that adds to the legend and it's the kind of story fits nicely with Cash's image of doing things his way and Kris's image as a down and almost out guy struggling to get back on his feet. Another part of the story is that Kris took a janitor job at Columbia Records in Nashville so that he could maybe meet Cash and perhaps give him a few songs and that Cash said after listening to a couple "the guy can't sing" and threw the songs ( on cassettes) into Old Hickory Lake. Another story is that Cash and June were home one morning and Janis Joplin's recording of "Bobby McGee" was on the radio. Cash said,"Damn, that's a good song. I wonder why Kris didn't give me that one?," and June replied, "He did, but you threw it in the lake." This is all part of the legends that revolve around people who are literally "bigger than life." What's cool about a legend is that at least part of it is true.

[MissouriPicker]

Damn! 71 and remembering less everyday (ain't kidding...lol) .....and the legend about me being "sharp as a marble" is pure fiction.

[QuestionMark]

JJW may not have had the Detroit City hit, but he did have a big hit about a different city, Los Angeles, with his cover of Guy Clark’s great song, L.A. Freeway.

 

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

[Holiday Hoser]

No please don't misunderstand I have great respect and admiration for both Earle and JJW and count them as two of my favorites. I think they are both greatly unappreciated especially how they hand CMAs and Grammys like they are Halloween candy.

That was the point I was trying to make not a slight in the least and now that I look Steve has 3 grammys. His Townes album one of my favorites.

HH

[jimydrmz]

If it wasn't for JJW there would be no Jimmy Buffett!

[Holiday Hoser]