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Salfromchatham

Hooo boy. Ryan Adams

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Humans are complex. There are 'normal' people but what's normal? My take is that a very large percentage of people have hidden desires and hidden actions that would draw ridicule if exposed. We see this time and time again and we have a bazillion people incarcerated because they did something society says is wrong but they could not control themselves. We happen to have large brains relative to other species. We cannot change biology, it will always be haunting us, in conflict with our particular society's morals. The drive to reproduce is about as strong a desire as there is. Same with any living thing. And when young girls reach puberty, the male animal is desirous, like it or not. The law says hands off but, for some, the strongest of biological urges cannot be thwarted. It's not as simple as "he's a scumbag." Again, we are extremely complex.

 

As for the left being the culprit in name-calling, there is some truth to that. But IMO, the right is just as culpable in hastening the demise of a healthy society. Lots of reasons. One being their acceptance and downright cult worship of a complete charlatan, a conman fraud, a traitor. It's bad enough any man could support the a-hole but for women to adore trump is incomprehensible to me. I swear, it's like this showcase of the human condition that is trump is casting some really bad light on women. Being smack in the middle of the bible belt and trump country, I'd guess that 95% of everybody I know loves the prick. As someone who is definitely profoundly heterosexual but has always treated women with respect, there is something profoundly wrong with that. Many aspects to that but women embracing him as a Godly and righteous man is downright insane. He can't spell Bible. And... I am not religious. So, at least, I got that going for me.

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I agree with you about the three things. There are some great Venn diagrams in 7 Habits of Highly Successful People that illustrate your point. However, just because it is out of my control doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't ponder the dilemma and try to reconcile possible causes or solutions. Philosophy and logic are amazing tools.

 

If something is out of your control, what good will worrying do? Again, you have no control, so reconciliation is not possible when you again, have no control (or influence). You would be spending energy on something that would serve no purpose, because no matter the effort you put in, you are getting 0% output... There are things in life like this. If you encounter an issue that you yourself directly have no control over, all you could do later on is figure out what kind of influence you may have. If you have no control or influence, you are not going to affect anything regarding that. Worrying does no one any good. Yeah, it's a human reaction to stress, but it does not solve a problem itself. I am not immune to any of this, nor is anyone else. Although, we are all at different parts of our life long journey and in different circumstances. I am not saying to lose your passion, just saying to efficiently use your efforts in life to improve what you can. Not getting religious, but do you know the serenity prayer?

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A few thoughts.

 

Firstly, while his music was great, he often came across as a doosh bag in interviews and his way of holding himself. Bit of a diick really.

 

Secondly, read his lyrics, espeically the last album Prisoner, its all about his breakup with his wife, and he comes across as a needy,insecure little boy who lost his mummy. I dont think he much of an idea how to deal with women.

 

However, to his defence it is the New York Times, one of the pillars of feminism and when you read the article the apparent crime was 'manipulative behaviour' - hardly criminal. The feminist publications made a name of themselves from presenting 'accused' as assume guilty unless proven otherwise.

 

This seems to me more of a character assasitnation than anything else, which makes me wonder who did Ryan Adams pisss of at the NYT ?

 

Uh, he didn't piss anybody off at the New York Times. Not sure where or how you made your assumptions of how reporters and editors work, but I can assure you as someone who spent four decades as a newspaper reporter (with a Pulitzer on the mantle...) the Times followed the story wherever it went, period. They did their due diligence. The reporters weren't out to "get" Adams any more than I was out to "get" anybody I wrote about. The reporters gave Adams every opportunity to respond to the accusations being made. In fact, in his later tweets, he acknowledges behaving inappropriately. This story was NOT "fake news." The allegations were substantive and the Times documented a definite pattern of behavior, going back years.

 

And I don't even know where to start with the whole "the Times is a feminist publication" BS. Really? Because the Times exposes a man's inappropriate behavior, that makes it a "feminist" publication? Seriously? That's like saying that because they're doing articles on Michael Cohen, it's proof they hate lawyers. That's just absurd. How often do you even read the Times?

 

The questionable behavior here was by Ryan Adams, not the New York Times. The paper was doing its job of holding people in power and celebrities accountable. We all agree people should be held accountable, right? Right?

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no loss for me, I've never even listened to one of his songs, and if I did, I didn't know it.

 

yea,, he can go now.. buh bye..

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no loss for me, I've never even listened to one of his songs, and if I did, I didn't know it.

 

yea,, he can go now.. buh bye..

 

I was afraid I was the only one in this forum who never listened to him. I couldn't name a single song he wrote or performed.

Second on the buh bye

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I was afraid I was the only one in this forum who never listened to him. I couldn't name a single song he wrote or performed.

Second on the buh bye

 

I guess you could add me to the list of never heard of or listened to this guy... I'm a bit out of touch maybe?

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If something is out of your control, what good will worrying do? Again, you have no control, so reconciliation is not possible when you again, have no control (or influence). You would be spending energy on something that would serve no purpose, because no matter the effort you put in, you are getting 0% output... There are things in life like this. If you encounter an issue that you yourself directly have no control over, all you could do later on is figure out what kind of influence you may have. If you have no control or influence, you are not going to affect anything regarding that. Worrying does no one any good. Yeah, it's a human reaction to stress, but it does not solve a problem itself. I am not immune to any of this, nor is anyone else. Although, we are all at different parts of our life long journey and in different circumstances. I am not saying to lose your passion, just saying to efficiently use your efforts in life to improve what you can. Not getting religious, but do you know the serenity prayer?

 

I guess I'm confused how you figure that I'm worried, stressed and wasting time and energy on this. Yes, in my original post I mentioned I "worry" about my kids. Maybe "worry" was a poor choice of words that is leading you to this "teaching moment". Or maybe it's because you already shared your opinion that I am not "smart":

 

Smart people can tell the difference what is worthwhile and futile.

 

 

I think any parent will say they are concerned about the future for their children. Why else would try to better ourselves or our situation in life to give them a better future?

 

I made a simple observation and shared my opinion about some related things. Do I think about all things out of my control in this manner? Definitely not. Just because one ponders things that are not within their control does not mean that it is worry, stress, or a waste of time. By this logic, lots of the worlds problems would never have been solved because no one should try to wrap their mind around things that are unfixable or within their control. There are a lot of brilliant and motivated individuals that have bettered the world by doing just that. To stick our head in the sand and not try to better ourselves, our family or our world is unthinkable to me.

 

And yes, I know the Serenity Prayer well. Thanks for the sermon. I promise you you don't need to worry about me. To do so is not worthwhile or futile.

Edited by thegreatgumbino

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Hi thegreatgumbino,

On the contrary, I was just BS'ing sharing my thoughts as well. No hostility or attempts to insult are there directed towards you. I was simply replying to the thoughts you shared that seem to express the distressed state of the world we live in, and I was simply trying to be sincere in my responses to see if there was something of value I could directly share with you. That's all I was attempting to do here. I can appreciate some good philosophical points to discuss in good faith. I would defeat my points if I were attempting to demean or something of the sort. I was taught to respect everyone, but do not confuse kindness for weakness. I am a family man - have kids - and I simply try not to focus on negative things as much as possible. I'm far from perfect and learn every day. I appreciate your thoughts and thank you for sharing.

Edited by NighthawkChris

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Maybe people should wait that things are proven and judged.

A man with so much money is an easy target if you wanna make some cash (like his ex-wife did by the way thanks to him and divorce).

 

Might be true, and then i will agree with most of the above, however i wont judge before proof.

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I think Ryan Adams sure can write, and the recordings of his solo acoustic shows in 2011 are really fine. I have re-read his bio and it sounds like he grew up in seriously dysfunctional situations, and from following his career for several years it's clear he has many unresolved issues. None of this excuses this reported behavior. Comprehend but do not condone, etc. Traditional masculinity would actually condemn this behavior, because we are supposed to be our sisters' protectors, right?

 

Because they have numerous participants and witnesses who are willing to go on the record, and because many of the stories seem to line up, and because there is not an overt political angle to this story, I am inclined to believe the Times has done its due diligence here. I note that #MeToo is itself pretty political, but that one seems to be burning as many people on the left, if not more, than on the right. It is, as they say, a developing story.

 

I will probably regret this next part, but so be it.

 

dhanners may argue that we expect the NYT (and by extension the national media) to do its job and hold people in power and celebrities to account. And overall, I think we do - but we expect that holding to account to be fair, even-handed, and bipartisan. You would have to be Ray Charles not to see the difference in tone, scope, and aggressiveness between how the previous administration was covered by the national media vs. the coverage of the current administration.

 

As far as livemusic's post goes, my observation from this very red state is a lot of people voted against one candidate more than they voted for the other one. There were a lot of conversations I overheard or participated in that boiled down to, "Both candidates are raving narcissistic pieces of work, but one of them will have the press cheerleading for them no matter what horrible thing they do, while the other one will remind the American media they're supposed to be the watchdogs of democracy, not the lapdogs they've been since January 2009. That man may be a &^%$#@, but he'll be the most heavily scrutinized &^%$#@ to ever hold that office, and after the last eight years, we'll take that."

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I think Ryan Adams sure can write, and the recordings of his solo acoustic shows in 2011 are really fine. I have re-read his bio and it sounds like he grew up in seriously dysfunctional situations, and from following his career for several years it's clear he has many unresolved issues. None of this excuses this reported behavior. Comprehend but do not condone, etc. Traditional masculinity would actually condemn this behavior, because we are supposed to be our sisters' protectors, right?

 

Because they have numerous participants and witnesses who are willing to go on the record, and because many of the stories seem to line up, and because there is not an overt political angle to this story, I am inclined to believe the Times has done its due diligence here. I note that #MeToo is itself pretty political, but that one seems to be burning as many people on the left, if not more, than on the right. It is, as they say, a developing story.

 

I will probably regret this next part, but so be it.

 

dhanners may argue that we expect the NYT (and by extension the national media) to do its job and hold people in power and celebrities to account. And overall, I think we do - but we expect that holding to account to be fair, even-handed, and bipartisan. You would have to be Ray Charles not to see the difference in tone, scope, and aggressiveness between how the previous administration was covered by the national media vs. the coverage of the current administration.

 

As far as livemusic's post goes, my observation from this very red state is a lot of people voted against one candidate more than they voted for the other one. There were a lot of conversations I overheard or participated in that boiled down to, "Both candidates are raving narcissistic pieces of work, but one of them will have the press cheerleading for them no matter what horrible thing they do, while the other one will remind the American media they're supposed to be the watchdogs of democracy, not the lapdogs they've been since January 2009. That man may be a &^%$#@, but he'll be the most heavily scrutinized &^%$#@ to ever hold that office, and after the last eight years, we'll take that."

 

 

This is getting far afield from Gibsons or even music, for that matter, but anyone who doesn't believe the media scrutinized the previous administration just was not paying attention. One of the key differences, though, was that there just weren't a lot of misdeeds committed by members of that administration. You can't really report something that's not there. I've known my fair share of FBI agents and federal prosecutors, and they didn't much care what your politics were if they found evidence you broke the law.

 

Let's get back to Gibsons....

Edited by dhanners623

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This news really saddens me. I hope he tries everything in his power to make right what he has done wrong, while getting all the help he needs.

 

For those of you who have never heard his music, Ryan Adams is an undeniably great songwriter, whose music has touched a lot of people for many years. I have followed his music for more than twenty years.

 

Two of my favorites.

 

I have to work hard from now on to seperate the art from the artist...

 

Lars

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This is getting far afield from Gibsons or even music, for that matter, but anyone who doesn't believe the media scrutinized the previous administration just was not paying attention. One of the key differences, though, was that there just weren't a lot of misdeeds committed by members of that administration. You can't really report something that's not there. I've known my fair share of FBI agents and federal prosecutors, and they didn't much care what your politics were if they found evidence you broke the law.

 

Let's get back to Gibsons....

 

Get back to Gibsons, I don't think it has anything to do with that. Nothing wrong with people giving opinions on any subject. Nobody's forcing anyone to read the thread. I find it interesting what people say.

 

BTW, whomever said a huge number of trump voters voted for trump because they voted against Hillary, yep, that is true. There's been a decades-long smear campaign against anything Clinton. It worked. And I'm not a Democrat.

 

There were a bazillion other voters for trump because they will never in a million years vote for any Democrat due to the abortion issue. What's weird about that is of all the gals I have known who have had abortions, the majority are Republicans.

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I hope Adams is really not a creep and that the women are okay.. Only know his name and very little about the music. Beyond that, I just don’t give a squat about any of this crap................... Playing a Hummingbird helps you stay mellow and today I am very mellow.. [thumbup] [thumbup]

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Uh, he didn't piss anybody off at the New York Times. Not sure where or how you made your assumptions of how reporters and editors work, but I can assure you as someone who spent four decades as a newspaper reporter (with a Pulitzer on the mantle...) the Times followed the story wherever it went, period. They did their due diligence. The reporters weren't out to "get" Adams any more than I was out to "get" anybody I wrote about. The reporters gave Adams every opportunity to respond to the accusations being made. In fact, in his later tweets, he acknowledges behaving inappropriately. This story was NOT "fake news." The allegations were substantive and the Times documented a definite pattern of behavior, going back years.

 

And I don't even know where to start with the whole "the Times is a feminist publication" BS. Really? Because the Times exposes a man's inappropriate behavior, that makes it a "feminist" publication? Seriously? That's like saying that because they're doing articles on Michael Cohen, it's proof they hate lawyers. That's just absurd. How often do you even read the Times?

 

The questionable behavior here was by Ryan Adams, not the New York Times. The paper was doing its job of holding people in power and celebrities accountable. We all agree people should be held accountable, right? Right?

 

Bullshit and you know it. Since when was ‘ manipulative behaviour’ a crime and more importantly where is the verdict of guilt ??

 

Its a typical leftie chatacter lynching before any crime has been proven to be have committed.

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ahhh basking in the cold harsh glare of social media- need to splash some 1000-spf BSscreen in my braindome...mmm thass' much better

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I’m sorry I brought this up folks. I liked him. I covered more than a few of his songs.

I brought it up for two reasons. One, I know a few other friends here dug him like I did. Two, I didn’t think. I’m a dope for posting it and cheapening the forum. It should be about Gibsons.

Taking some time off. Ciao.

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I do like his live acoustic music, but he did seem like kind of a selfish diva in his interactions with others. (As far as I could tells from video docs and interviews)

Many of the artists that I have enjoyed have become "fallen heroes." They've had some dark personal lives exposed, and I have to decide whether I can still be inspired by, or even enjoy their work. Most of the time, I can separate the artist from their work (as Lars stated), but it's all subjective and personal.

Should I filter how a song makes me feel based on the creator's entire life? Should this new knowledge now negate any positive influence that the song has had on my life?

 

On another point, should the artist take advantage of their position? Perhaps he can get away with doing some dark deeds. Does that make it okay? This is where compassion and empathy need to come into play. A person's true character is tested when he is in a position of power/influence.

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Shoot does that mean I have to unlearn "Come Pick Me Up"? Maybe I can have his Buck Owens Americana guitars after he goes to jail. Just sayin'

s-l1000.jpg

 

There's a great StewMac video of Dan Erlewine rehabbing Adams' three Buck Owens guitars and getting them in shape to tour. Some really great stuff. But I went to StewMac's site and they've removed the video. ALL the other Trade Secrets videos are there, but the one of Adams' guitars, from April 2017, has been removed

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Bullshit and you know it. Since when was ‘ manipulative behaviour’ a crime and more importantly where is the verdict of guilt ??

 

Its a typical leftie chatacter lynching before any crime has been proven to be have committed.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, and since I actually spent a career working as a reporter and have four decades of first-hand experience in how reporters and editors work -- as opposed to your experience of maybe reading a newspaper now and then -- I'll go with my assessment. If this story were about Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates or some other titan of industry or powerful person or celebrity, I doubt you'd be complaining about a story exposing their "manipulative behavior." Adams, according to multiple named sources, owned a record company and made promises to women, then hit on the women. I'm betting you can count the males he gave such offers to on the fingers of Billy Joe Shaver's right hand. If that. The guy was a predator, and people in the industry knew it.

 

If actual criminal behavior is your bar for when an article can be written, that's bizarre. Journalists have been reporting on the inappropriate behavior of the powerful since there have been journalists. Promising an aspiring singer-songwriter a lucrative opening spot on a tour, or saying you'll produce her record, are big promises that he was entirely capable of delivering on. But now we've seen the fine print of those deals. That's not appropriate behavior.

 

And the Times' story today says the FBI has opened an investigation into whether Adams had sexually explicit communications with an underage kid. That's against the law ("criminal") if it happened, right?

Edited by dhanners623

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Disappointed for sure. I've lost quite a bit of respect for him, as a person, with these disturbing revelations.

 

However, I can still listen to the songwriter/musician. I've always dug his music. If we all stopped listening to music, watching movies, reading books, etc. who's authors were flawed individuals (some deeply), we would have to give up a whole lot of great art.

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