Ulhuru Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 But why purposely make a slight mess with Dark Fire Flame Top, when apparently it seems easy to manage AAA Figured Maple for the less expensive Pushtone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoPimp Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 This is wood here guys' date=' like their replies have mentioned, not one will look identical. [/quote'] no ... reaaallly ???? wow man, thx so much for clearing that up, you know we're a bunch of complete retards here, never crossed our minds that wood doesn't have exactly the same figuring ... all jokes aside however, there is a big difference between a flamed top and a barely figured top like brookfloyds .. there is also a big difference from the initial product pics and the current ones. this has nothing to do with the natural variances of a particular kind of wood as Gibson or you will have us idiots believe. it looks like a choice of a certain kind of top-wood vs another, cheaper, more readily available one ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 +1 for DiscoPimp Carbonite: Nice try, but I think your kindergarten students are lookin' for ya. Oh, and take off those rose colored glasses Bottom line is cost and wood selection. Customer satistfaction seems to be out of the Gibson equation in this matter. On the other hand, a company like Ibanez, which, as a lot of people know, is into figured tops http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-AR300RE http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-SV5470F and exotic woods http://www.ibanez.com/ElectricGuitars/model-ART420 http://www.ibanez.com/AcousticGuitars/SeriesIntro-EW_Intro ...seems to have no problem controlling the quality (amount of figuring and grainging) in their tops. (No, I'm not pimping Ibanez, it's just a good example I'm very aware of) Another thing I've noticed in Gibson lately is the lack of care in selecting neck wood. I've seen plenty of Gibson guitars (produced in the last few years) that don't have straight grained wood in the neck (including my Push Tone). Time was when every Gibson you looked at had a straight grained neck. In the body that's not a big deal, but in a neck, subject to bend and warpage, that's just asking for trouble. This whole wood selection issue is becoming distrubing and worrisome of late and I'm sorry to see it continuing. It seems to be tied into some of the quality problems that began cropping up around 2004. Let's hope it's not forehadowing a return to the well known quality problems of the 70s and early 80s after Gibson was bought by Norlin and moved from Kalamazoo to Nashville. Quote from Wiki: "After being bought by the Norlin corporation in the late 1960s Gibson's quality and fortunes took a steep decline until early 1986..." Here's a 2007 article on the subject that also address recent quality concerns, but is a bit more optimistic: http://www.recordingreview.com/articles/articles/182/1/Gibson-guitars--My-take-on-the-recent-quality-debate/Page1.html I will say, despite a questionable neck wood selection, my LP Push Tone's quality is first rate and the setup was excellent 'out of the box'. But for now, with the DF, there seems to be several quality isssues as well as a matter of cost and wood selection. Gibson should know better - when customers pay the big bucks for a supposedly top quality big name guitar, they want a flawless speciman and not a bunch of hooey about "every piece of wood is unique". BTW Mr. Gibson, execellent job on the LP Push Tone. My 08 LP Push Tone top My 08 LP Push Tone neck - grain not straight - slight twist right to left Not bad, but I (and many others) would prefer straight grained wood in the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd88 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 BigKahune, Beautiful Push Tone. What's that vibrato you have on it? Who makes it? How does it work? Is it subtle like a Bigsby, or more Floyd like? Thanks for any info. Joe D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVH5445 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 panrixx Love the rd I was informed that the dark fire (dork fire) had a AAAA flamed top. so i guess Gibson thinks ok this is just as good lets go change the site real quick no one will notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Beautiful Push Tone. What's that vibrato you have on it? Who makes it? How does it work? Is it subtle like a Bigsby' date=' or more Floyd like? [/quote'] Thanks jsd88 - StewMac (Stewart MacDonald) - if you've never been to their website before, you're in for a treat. "Les Trem" tremolo http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar_tremolos/Les_Trem_Stop-Tailpiece_Tremolo.html Non-invasive - no routing, drilling etc... Made with a small footprint for the LP in a vintage style. It fits right into your existing stop piece post mounts. Due to the fact Gibson uses a stop piece with play that locks with set screws, the post mount width can vary slightly. I had to shave a tiny bit off my Les Trim's mounting holes to get a perfect fit (my LP's post mount width was a hair wider than spec), but no problem to rectify with a drill/bit. Action like a Bigsby, stable, no tuning problems, no effect on the LP's fantastic sustain. This is a very nicely engineered and manufactured piece - tight - absolutely no rattling. If you go with a trem, I recommend a roller bridge (the LP Push Tone comes with an ABR-1 tune-o-matic): http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_Tune-o-matic_bridges/Locking_Roller_Bridge.html helps keep the string movement smooth and way cuts down breakage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd88 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 BigKahune, Thanks so much for the detailed answer and Great pics! I will look into it. Later, Joe D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonutalan1 Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 BigKahune, That is a beautiful Push-Tone!!! Thanks for the tremolo info also! That is a nice setup I was previously unaware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbonite Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 +1 for DiscoPimp Carbonite: Nice try' date=' but I think your kindergarten students are lookin' for ya. Oh, and take off those rose colored glasses I am confused. So I basically say that Gibson wasn't selective with their wood and then you say they weren't selective with their wood and yet you try downing me? I guess I said it wrong. I said, it seems like they usually separate out their woods after carving them with the good ones going on good guitars and the bad ones getting gold topped or whatever, however on the Dark Fires they just carved out the wood and used them on the guitar regardless of how the top looked. Is that bad, yep. Do I blame them for using a good specimen in the pictures no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoPimp Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 This is wood here guys' date=' like their replies have mentioned, not one will look identical. They didn't paint these patterns on you know. [/quote'] i think this is what triggerred it which sort of suggests that you think it's completely fair and normal that 2 guitars from the same 'limited edition first run' look as different as the original ads compared to 'the orange one' ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panrixx Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 panrixx Love the rd Thanks EVH5445. Yes I think it's great. It has the full Moog electronics package and it all works! Also' date=' it's completely original. I've seen a few nice looking ones but they often have new knobs, pickup covers, bridges, etc. Here are a couple of my photos for anyone who would like to see them. [img']http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/15911/2496934030059914247S600x600Q85.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 ... on the Dark Fires they just carved out the wood and used them on the guitar regardless of how the top looked. Is that bad' date=' yep. Do I blame them for using a good specimen in the pictures no. [/quote'] you're entitled to your opinion... While what you describe (baiting with photos) probably won't cause legal action in the States, that doesn't make it ethically acceptable. But I guess that's just something that doesn't bother you. In the EU it's grounds for legal action. panrixx - man, that RD is in beautiful shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyle Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 So the Gibson rep says "There are no 'fixed' specs for our tops on any of our guitar models, like was done previously." Anybody else notice the new SG Autumn Burst post clearly says the top is AAA-grade maple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoPimp Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 So the Gibson rep says "There are no 'fixed' specs for our tops on any of our guitar models' date=' like was done previously." Anybody else notice the new SG Autumn Burst post clearly says the top is AAA-grade maple?[/quote'] yes, gibson europe somehow seems to be fond of insulting our intelligence ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 So the Gibson rep says "There are no 'fixed' specs for our tops on any of our guitar models' date=' like was done previously." Anybody else notice the new SG Autumn Burst post clearly says the top is AAA-grade maple?[/quote'] +1 Gibson's spec sheet currently on their LP Push Tone page says in part: BODY Body Style: LP Top Species: AAA Figured Maple Back Species: Mahogany Chambered Body Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think spec sheet clearly states the LP body has triple A figured maple top. http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Divisions/Gibson%20USA/Products/GOTM/LesPaulPush-tone/ (click on "SPEC SHEET") Let's see, that's two current models that are graded "AAA" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimethy Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 So the Gibson rep says "There are no 'fixed' specs for our tops on any of our guitar models' date=' like was done previously." Anybody else notice the new SG Autumn Burst post clearly says the top is AAA-grade maple?[/quote'] These where initially intended for the DF but due to high RD cost they decided to bring out a new SG to cover the loses :-p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimethy Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Stumbled upon this ... "The wood's also checked for any impurities or problems like knots or divots," explains supervisor Joe McGee, a 13-year veteran of Gibson USA. "We also grade the maple from plain to AAAA flame to quilt before it gets stacked in the correct pile." http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/309-gibson-usa/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deilegacy3 Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Guitar Center in Nashua, NH has a DF, and it's as picture perfect as the ads. Unfortunately, the head of sales said that it's been f***ed up from the moment that they got it from Gibson, so it's been sitting on the wall for 2 months collecting dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Someone should buy it - then RMA it = perfection. Given the variability of the top, and Gibson's RMA service correcting all problems - then this is a good tip for someone seeking a flame top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liystalander Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Someone should buy it - then RMA it = perfection. Given the variability of the top' date=' and Gibson's RMA service correcting all problems - then this is a good tip for someone seeking a flame top.[/quote'] Yeah. That "someone" would probably get a great price. If "someone" were to go to purchase that guitar, they should bargain the hell out of it. They should make sure that they get deductions for every single problem. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deilegacy3 Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yeah. That "someone" would probably get a great price. Unfortunately, that great price is $3000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liystalander Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Unfortunately' date=' that great price is $3000.[/quote'] Really, even with all the defects you describe. I would ask for a manager, and tell him that you can get it for less, sealed in box. Just show him the pictures of my receipt that I posted. 3K for a guitar with problems is ridiculous. Why the hell does it censor r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s? Last time I checked, that wasn't profanity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoPimp Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Why the hell does it censor r-i-d-i-c-u-l-o-u-s? Last time I checked' date=' that wasn't profanity...[/quote'] ridi - c u l o - us took me a while to figure it out as well ... makes you wonder who compiles those filters, you can say a lot of profane stuff it won't catch so why this rather rare hispanic one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liystalander Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 ridi - c u l o - us took me a while to figure it out as well ... makes you wonder who compiles those filters' date=' you can say a lot of profane stuff it won't catch so why this rather rare hispanic one ? [/quote'] Wow. I had no idea. It doesn't even seem that bad. I have seen a lot worse things get through the filter. Thanks for the lesson in profanity ;) No hablo español. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deilegacy3 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 They wouldn't even take it off the wall for me to try it. I would have grabbed it myself, but it was high up, like a show piece, that they don't want anyone messing with. It's pretty sad, cuz if I could have tried it, and it was working, i would have traded all my gear in for it... Even my SG Robot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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