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Copyright claims. It’s getting serious,


LarryUK

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...Yeah but also I have read or heard somewhere (cant remember now) that there have been countries who have tried to implement this sort of law but found it unworkable so have withdrawn them (Germany is one of them I think).. The reason being that the software and workload behind these laws is just makes it undoable...

 

You get the idea.

I do get the idea and I do appreciate that it is a practical impossibility with the technology available today for one Big Brother to police the entire internet but that's not quite the issue at stake here.

 

As I understand it the proposal infers that if any website posts - unwittingly or otherwise - copyrighted material then that website could, legally, be deemed culpable for any subsequent damages claim. The onus on whether copyright material is posted, therefore, rests with the individual website. It follows that the end result for some websites would be to close down altogether rather than face the prospect of a financially ruinous law-suit.

 

The 'Bigger Picture' is extremely far-fetching in its remit.

 

Pip.

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As I understand it the proposal infers that if any website posts - unwittingly or otherwise - copyrighted material then that website could, legally, be deemed culpable for any subsequent damages claim. The onus on whether copyright material is posted, therefore, rests with the individual website. It follows that the end result for some websites would be to close down altogether rather than face the prospect of a financially ruinous law-suit.

 

Like libraries. Public and private schools. Universities. Theater groups. Poetry slams. Any venue that distributes property owned by others. While I agree, it is a big internet, surely they could at least show some participation by beginning the steps to some fair compensation scheme that could satisfy everyone. They won't.

 

I think the problem is that the vitriol is all aimed squarely at the wrong parties.

 

rct

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Hate to see these kids have to learn songs the way I did but hey, buck up buttercups.

 

I'm not at the retiring age yet, but when I was a kid learning guitar, I had to buy the cassette - or CD - whatever that cost, then buy the music book for another $20. For that money when you're a kid, you better like the album, haha! No usually I bought the book because I liked the album so much. That's where bandmates and such came in to play. They bought the other books you didn't own and we shared. We also did the learn-by-ear stuff too. You do what you have to with what is available to learn the song. It wasn't all that bad back then, but it's hard to remember what it was like when you have something like YT that practically has lessons for tons and tons of songs. You become accustomed to it all I guess.

 

Anyhow, to all, I have seen a few videos on YT regarding Article 13 and it is what it is... Whatever I think about it won't change a thing. I can share many of a common sentiment here. I for one like having the resource to learning a song very quickly because of someone who kindly posts a video for educational purposes.

 

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Like libraries. Public and private schools. Universities. Theater groups. Poetry slams. Any venue that distributes property owned by others. While I agree, it is a big internet, surely they could at least show some participation by beginning the steps to some fair compensation scheme that could satisfy everyone. They won't.

 

I think the problem is that the vitriol is all aimed squarely at the wrong parties.

 

rct

I fully agree that those who are the originators of material which is then put into the public domain by third parties in order to generate revenue / make a profit should be financially rewarded by the latter.

 

In the UK authors whose books are borrowed, physically, from public lending libraries receive a payment for each and every withdrawal of their book(s) and, likewise, schools and universities which issue published textbooks pay a fee to the publisher / author for their use. Theatres, of course, have always paid substantial sums to put on shows / plays etc. Which is All As It Should Be. With the rise of eLibraries many of those sites who post entire texts on-line feel no compunction to pay those who own the copyright for those works a brass farthing. Which is Utterly Wrong and Totally Despicable.

 

Unfortunately with the rise of the internet there has been a great deal of 'Abuse of the System' by a great number of Very Large Institutions and the end result will be that, as you say, the vitriol will be most keenly felt by the wrong parties.

Pip.

 

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one of the big problems is when they flag you for copyright claims on your own music. i've been having a problem with that for 2 yrs now. one of my songs continually comes up as "empathy" by some band called cybotron. they don't sound anything at all similar and no matter how many times i straighten it out, i still occasionally try to show my video to someone only to have them reply "there's no sound". [cursing]

 

it even comes up that way on wmp, i have no idea why, and wmp won't let me change it.

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one of the big problems is when they flag you for copyright claims on your own music. i've been having a problem with that for 2 yrs now. one of my songs continually comes up as "empathy" by some band called cybotron. they don't sound anything at all similar and no matter how many times i straighten it out, i still occasionally try to show my video to someone only to have them reply "there's no sound". [cursing]

 

it even comes up that way on wmp, i have no idea why, and wmp won't let me change it.

 

Is your song copyrighted?

 

rct

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It has to stand up in court.

In the video the guy gets 10 notifications - infringement? Demand for money/royalties?

How is that going to be enforced in the 1st instance?

Presumably he will be kicked off whatever net host site he's on without the bother of a formal court decision.

I think if it is simply a Dsus2 chord, a court would reject it unless it is picked in a specific repeated melodic pattern.

So it won't get to court - just kick him off and assume he won't risk making a legal challenge.

 

It's very early days yet - there will be legal actions with both silly and sensible decisions.

The interesting thing is that as a result there may be much more interest in 'old' music that is out of copyright by now.

 

OTOH if someone picks up one of my tracks from Soundcloud and uses it (over on the other side of the world somewhere) am I going to get paid?

Theoretically yes but I doubt it.

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Anyway, been a good thread for the sake of good discussion and debate. something we sort of don't get too often here these days!

 

 

 

Well, my panties are rolled up tight and riding. ...if anyone cares...

 

 

🤪

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Holy crap! The ol' lounge almost flickered back to life at least for a few minutes (all the attention span I have...I skimmed it but!)

 

So how bad do I play a cover for it to be acceptable?

If I do a crap painting of Starry Nights or Bedroom at Arles is that ok?

What if I paint my house the same colour as some dude down the street?

 

Life.

 

Edit...and what if on YouTube I were to play chords to something like the sweet/scary ms Sandoval's song here...which of a couple hundred songwriters would be first in line to sue me? ...all of them maybe?

 

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Back in the 1980's, when I was playing Country Music for a living, there was a thing called the Nashville Network on cable. I used to videotape every song on there, and learn how they were playing the songs. It ended up being a good system for me. I never showed any of those videos outside of my home, though some of the songs made me enough money to avoid starvation. I have used YouTube in a similar fashion.

 

I am also a songwriter, and I don't pirate anyone's music. People always tell me "here, borrow my copy and rip it." I won't do that. Napster changed the mores in the music business, there is no doubt. Now it is just trickling down.

 

Excellent discussion.

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...and now Freedom of speech takes another beating. But politics aren't allowed on here.

 

Sorry buddy, but it isn't at all Freedom of Speech. Would you go to work for nothing in the interests of (NOT)Freedom of Speech? That's what people are and have been doing for far too long. They just want to get paid if other people are profiting from their work. Not Free Speech at all.

 

Say the "b" word in an airport, you'll know (NOT)Freedom of Speech quickly.

 

It is only political if people make it political.

 

rct

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Sorry buddy, but it isn't at all Freedom of Speech. Would you go to work for nothing in the interests of (NOT)Freedom of Speech? That's what people are and have been doing for far too long. They just want to get paid if other people are profiting from their work. Not Free Speech at all.

 

Say the "b" word in an airport, you'll know (NOT)Freedom of Speech quickly.

 

It is only political if people make it political.

 

rct

Sorry, I was trying not to bring him into it. Assange. He's been arrested and the US are out to get him.

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tbo, i'm not sure. when it was recorded, the studio gy agreed to do it for points, so i dunno, maybe he did it? i never did

 

He didn't, that's why you are having the trouble you are having.

 

rct

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