Gibson 70's era Cut-Off Dates

[BoSoxBiker]

I've heard and read about a not-so-great reputation regarding Gibson acoustics of the 1970's. Is this strict to the calendar, or is it something that began, for example, in 1973 and went on until 1985.

 

And the why do you ask answer - I was perusing Reverb and saw a 1970 Dove. Being a sucker for Maple .......

Why I Ask

[kelly campbell]

I've heard and read about a not-so-great reputation regarding Gibson acoustics of the 1970's. Is this strict to the calendar, or is it something that began, for example, in 1973 and went on until 1985.

 

And the why do you ask answer - I was perusing Reverb and saw a 1970 Dove. Being a sucker for Maple .......

Why I Ask

 

 

Nice..

[ksdaddy]

Beginning in the early 60s there was a steady flow of changes that people didn't like, and some things were reversed. Some not. Skinny necks from 1965-69 or so. Heavier bracing, double X bracing beginning in 1971, switch from a 17 degree peghead to 14 from 1965 to 1973, things like that. In retrospect, Gibson went downhill design-wise beginning a lot earlier than most Gibson fans care to admit. People are quick to blame the Norlin era. True, many bad things took place, but the best Les Pauls I have ever played were 1979-80 models from Norlin Nashville. My only LP is a sandwich body 71. Can't get more Norlin than that.

 

Beginning around 1983 they did truly try to change the acoustics for the better. And in my opinion, they did. Bozeman gets all the credit but Nashville brought the build quality up a huge amount.

 

I'm rambling.

 

There are things I would look for in a 70s Gibson. Twisted neck. Truss rod that doesn't do anything. Shallow neck angle. Rotting binding. Having said all that, the 70s necks were mega-comfortable.

 

I would hesitate to buy a 70s Gibson online but if you try one in person and it's structurally sound (see previous statement) and you LIKE it, buy it and ignore the "experts".

[QuestionMark]

I've heard and read about a not-so-great reputation regarding Gibson acoustics of the 1970's. Is this strict to the calendar, or is it something that began, for example, in 1973 and went on until 1985.

 

And the why do you ask answer - I was perusing Reverb and saw a 1970 Dove. Being a sucker for Maple .......

Why I Ask

 

What happened was quality at times began to slip during the 70s. Some to do with Norlin doing some things to cut costs (ie. Making jumbos all share the same square neck body, so much for the round shouldered J-45 during this era. Adding double X bracing and a non-traditional, for Gibson, volute on the back of the neck...all things that were not popular in general with Gibson players.) Plus, some quality control issues having to do with the luthiers in the shop possibly retaliating to the cost cutting measures Norlin implemented. In other words, there were some very fine quality Gibsons made during the Norlin era, even with the cost cutting measures, and then some that were not so great. As opposed to Gibson’s normal consistent high quality standards during the pre-Norlin 70s era and after, the Henry era started. Gibson was not alone during g the 70s Norlin era in this regard. Martin also went through a 70s era with quality control slippage as did Chevrolet Corvettes...all of whose products from the 70s sell for less due to similar quality control inconsistencies or cost cutting style matters. Epiphone, too, in terms of cost cutting styles and quality control, only in their case it was due to it being the early years of import manufacturing of guitars...although some from that era were not all bad guitars.

 

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

[j45nick]

 

I would hesitate to buy a 70s Gibson online but if you try one in person and it's structurally sound (see previous statement) and you LIKE it, buy it and ignore the "experts".

 

 

What KS Daddy says.

 

Having said that, a cherryburst Dove just looks wrong to me, no matter what year it was built.

[Jinder]

I've played some great '70s Gospels and a great Dove, too. Of course there are plenty of duffers out there, but as KSdaddy said, if you can find one that you enjoy and is structurally sound, go for it.

[Hall]

I have a 73 SJ I have kept, but I would for certain have to be able to play and inspect from that era before a buy.

[ksdaddy]

A couple years ago I bought a 1973 JG0 (bare bones square shoulder dread) cheap on ebay that was a disaster. Slathered in varnish, cracked peghead, no frets left. Oh, and all the bad features of the era from Day One.

 

The cracked peghead had not been disclosed and I returned it.

 

I should have kept it, glued the crack, refretted it and played it. It weighed about as much as a business letter in a #10 envelope and SHOOK when played.

 

I was stupid.

[zombywoof]

Every change Gibson, Martin and others made to guitars had nothing to do with sound and everything to do structure. No company wanted a guitar coming back in for warranty repairs which played havoc with their bottom lines. Beginning in the 1960s, Gibson, however, went overboard with solving engineering problems. So once Gibson went to say ADJ saddle bridges they had to come up with a bridge plate substantial enough to handle the weight and we ended up with maple plates being replaced with thick laminate plates large enough to qualify as furniture. The problem got worse when control of CMI passed to Arnie Berlin (the "in" in Norlin) For the first time Gibson was in the hands of college educated bean counters rather than guys who knew how to build guitars for a living.

 

In terms of 1970s Gibson, I think the Gospel was the best they had to offer. Its arched back helped restore some of the oomph the heavy bracing and bridge plates robbed the guitars of.

[blindboygrunt]

 

In terms of 1970s Gibson, I think the Gospel was the best they had to offer. Its arched back helped restore some of the oomph the heavy bracing and bridge plates robbed the guitars of.

 

 

That what helps guilds you reckon ?

The arched back I mean ....

Not Gibson making ***** guitars

[bobouz]

That what helps guilds you reckon ?

The arched back I mean ....

Many Guilds from the '70s benefitted from an arched back, but there were plenty of flatbacked models built that also sounded very nice.

 

Although Guilds from this period were generally rather heavily built, imho, two things stand out which made so many of them sound good. First, Guild's build quality remained high throughout the Westerly years. Second, the soundboard was not overbuilt. Tops were thin & responsive, even with the typical rosewood bridgeplate (which Martin also utilized during the '70s). So while the body (often with a massive neck & end block) might make the guitar quite weighty, the top could still resonate with abandon & produce very rich tones.

 

Edit: Re the OP's Dove in question, although I owned a Dove & Heritage Custom from the '70s that I found satisfying, the "try before you buy" comments are spot on. There's way too much variation within this era to not have an iron clad return policy if buying online.

Edited May 14, 2019 by bobouz

[j45nick]

 

In terms of 1970s Gibson, I think the Gospel was the best they had to offer. Its arched back helped restore some of the oomph the heavy bracing and bridge plates robbed the guitars of.

 

 

How much arch did that Gospel back have? It's pretty typical for a "flat-top" to have some arch in both the top and back. The J-45 construction drawings show a top and back "dome" of about 3/16" (just under 5mm). Some have more. Of course, a domed or arched surface is quite a bit stiffer than a flat one.

[ksdaddy]

Pretty sure the 70s arched backs were the same as the 90s Gospels. Got no proof other than a 1976 music store memory and the brief ownership of a ‘93 Bozeman Gospel.

[QuestionMark]

The original Gospels from the 70s had a laminated maple arched back. The Gospel Reissue from the 90s had a laminated mahogany arched back.

 

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

Edited May 15, 2019 by QuestionMark

[kelly campbell]

Good info guys, thanks.

[OldCowboy]

Gospel, Heritage, and Dove models from the 70's are pretty decent. None of them would scare me too much as an online purchase. Most of the information given so far is spot on - adjustable bridges on J-45's begin to show up around 1955.

[zombywoof]

Gospel, Heritage, and Dove models from the 70's are pretty decent. None of them would scare me too much as an online purchase. Most of the information given so far is spot on - adjustable bridges on J-45's begin to show up around 1955.

 

The Heritage and Dove, of course, appeared in the 1960s. As far as I know the Gospel and the Mark Series were the only acoustics introduced in the in 1970s. The one thing you have to give Gibson kudos for in the 1970s is there was no grass growing under the feet of their R&D team. The guitars they came up with, both electric and acoustic, were interesting and somewhat quirky to say the least. The ADJ saddle bridge showed up as an option in 1956 and becomes a standard feature in 1961.

Edited May 15, 2019 by zombywoof

[zombywoof]

Many Guilds from the '70s benefitted from an arched back, but there were plenty of flatbacked models built that also sounded very nice.

 

Although Guilds from this period were generally rather heavily built, imho, two things stand out which made so many of them sound good. First, Guild's build quality remained high throughout the Westerly years. Second, the soundboard was not overbuilt. Tops were thin & responsive, even with the typical rosewood bridgeplate (which Martin also utilized during the '70s). So while the body (often with a massive neck & end block) might make the guitar quite weighty, the top could still resonate with abandon & produce very rich tones.

 

Edit: Re the OP's Dove in question, although I owned a Dove & Heritage Custom from the '70s that I found satisfying, the "try before you buy" comments are spot on. There's way too much variation within this era to not have an iron clad return policy if buying online.

 

Epiphone ran arched back flattops up the flagpole in the early 1950s. My FT-79 has one. It does have a heavy build but still the guitar I grab when I know I will be needing some extra volume.

 

I always thoughts 1970s Guilds were an oasis in the middle of a desert. I owned an early 1970s transitional D25 which while retaining the spruce top had the arched back of the later D25M.

 

The main problem with 1970s Gibson though remained the massive laminate bridge plates. It only became worse when they went to the Double X bracing with the plates filling the entire space between the Xs. Martin made the same mistake in the late 1960s when they went with oversized rosewood bridge plates. It had nothing to do with the wood (Huss & Dalton has proven that) but they had been bulked up to the point they just sucked up the energy coming through the bridge. Kind of lie a vibration vampire.

[OldCowboy]

The Heritage and Dove, of course, appeared in the 1960s. As far as I know the Gospel and the Mark Series were the only acoustics introduced in the in 1970s. The one thing you have to give Gibson kudos for in the 1970s is there was no grass growing under the feet of their R&D team. The guitars they came up with, both electric and acoustic, were interesting and somewhat quirky to say the least. The ADJ saddle bridge showed up as an option in 1956 and becomes a standard feature in 1961.

Yep.

[Larry Mal]

I think for that money you can do a lot better.

[Tekboy]

I have a 1973 Cherry Sunburst Gibson Hummingbird. It may be the loudest acoustic guitar I have ever played, and the tone is DEEP! I bought it at Blackbird Vintage Music in Orlando, after playing an E at the first fret, then going down the neck and playing an E9. I have done nothing more than replace the pickup which used to be the under the saddle type (it was dead, Jim!) with the K&K Pure Mini. Later I found out it is not recommended to buy this guitar. Truthfully, I am 69 years old, and it is as good as any acoustic I have ever heard for tone and playability. There are guitars that may sound as good, but I have never heard one that sounds better.

 

I once bought a brand new Martin in 1989, and the owner of the store encouraged me to try three different guitars of the same model. The difference was astounding to me, and a real revelation about guitars. Just because they were made by the same company in the same year does not ensure good sound. Wood changes over the years. I heard the "Bird", and never looked back.

[Cranks]

A great resource for this is Gibson's Fabulous Flat Tops - An Illustrated History by Dan Erlewine. Just the section on Hummingbirds laid a lot of this out.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Cranks
Typo

[Murph]

My favorite electric guitar ever is a 79 Norlin SG made from scrap Walnut, with ceramic "velvet brick" humbuckers, an ebony fretboard and speedknobs.

Don't get hung up on dates, specs and other peoples opinions...