Gibson sends out a warning to copycats

[RobinTheHood]

2 minutes ago, pippy said:

Perhaps I'm fortunate in inhabiting a corner of the world where humidity /  'extremes' are unheard of but I'm never surprised that any of my guitars stay in tune. On the contrary I expect - nay! command!! - them to stay in tune. And they do. All of them; whether the 45-y-old Les Paul 'Lawsuit' copies; the Fenders, the assorted acoustic and jazz-box, the Custom Shop 'Burst reissues or whatever strays are lying about.

Perhaps I'm just really lucky?

Pip,

I don't know...I live Michigan with pretty extreme temp changes. I don't have any Gibson's currently, but I have a pile of Epiphones that rarely go out of tune. I have a 1986 Epiphone strat copy in a case that i rarely play. It has stayed in tune for the past 2 years in its case. Okay, okay, it has a floyd and a lock nut, but it still counts, dang it!

[Rabs]

How long has this page been up?

NOTICE: The following Trademarks are owned by Gibson Brands

https://www.gibson.com/Registered-Trademarks

 

[Violator]

46 minutes ago, pippy said:

Perhaps I'm fortunate in inhabiting a corner of the world where humidity /  'extremes' are unheard of but I'm never surprised that any of my guitars stay in tune. On the contrary I expect - nay! command!! - them to stay in tune. And they do. All of them; whether the 45-y-old Les Paul 'Lawsuit' copies; the Fenders, the assorted acoustic and jazz-box, the Custom Shop 'Burst reissues or whatever strays are lying about.

Perhaps I'm just really lucky?

Pip,

You probably never had one with a G-crap tuning system.

Also complete fail to use titanium as a nut material without stating the maximum supported string gauges, putting 10-48’s on them is just a no go, unless one has tools that won’t break by working on it, advice from Gibson is to buy a Graph Tech nut.

But at least, getting Grover tuners with the Gibson label on the cardboard is a lot cheaper than with a Grover label. 😃

[pauloqs]

25 minutes ago, Violator said:

You probably never had one with a G-crap tuning system.

Also complete fail to use titanium as a nut material without stating the maximum supported string gauges, putting 10-48’s on them is just a no go, unless one has tools that won’t break by working on it, advice from Gibson is to buy a Graph Tech nut.

But at least, getting Grover tuners with the Gibson label on the cardboard is a lot cheaper than with a Grover label. 😃

 

I had a guitar with G-Force and titanium nut for 3 years. I thought they were great,  but I did get a bit lazy about changing the strings with them. As for the titanium nut, I never had any issues with it, but I use 10-46. The 2015 had a brass nut that I heard was too soft for the speed of the G-force, as it would eat away the brass, hence the switch to titanium. With that said, I know I'm a minority that liked the G-Force tuners and I think they made the right move to not carry them anymore.

I find quite interesting, however, when they come up with solutions that people are asking for and get criticized for it afterwards. For instance, the textured back plates were shielded and they introduced is as a response to complaints about noise. People complained about it until they brought back the simple smooth plastic back plates. They got a lot of backlash for the bronze nut which they addressed with the titanium nut. I even heard of customer service sending owners of 2015 guitars sending them replacement titanium nuts. 

Out of curiosity, what made you go the HP route? They had very similarly spec'd guitars without G-force and titanium nut since 2016. Was is the neck heal, dip switches, or the wider fretboard that had you chose an HP?

For me it was the weight of the guitar I got. I was on the hunt for a LP standard under 8lbs and I happened to stumbled upon an HP that weighed 7lbs 14oz. I ended up really liking the heel joint and the toggle switch, but I preferred the fretboard width of the regular LP Standard. 

[Violator]

G-Force on mine didn’t stay in tune for more than 1-2 songs. Same issue with the G-Force that was on my LP Junior.

With 28,38 and 48 the strings didn’t slot in and buzzed on the titanium nut, so had to change it to keep playing with my favorite strings. 🙂

Fast access neckheel and the neckshape is why I went for the 2016 HP, the dip switches are nice to have but not really using them, only using the humbuckers as humbuckers.

Interesting with the complaints around shielding, I prefer to have everything shielded, so I usually end up putting copperfoil into guitars that don’t have propper shielding, I wonder why anyone would dislike shielding in a solid body guitar? Also as I recall Gibson where some of the first guitars that had shielding, I recall pictures of metalboxes in the control cavity in an article about shielding where credits was given to Gibson, so even purrists should be fine with it?

Edited June 21, 2019 by Violator
Correction of sentence

[pippy]

Are you a Loony by any chance?

No offence intended but you come across as a lunatic.

Pip.

[SteveFord]

I see that they've neglected to trademark the trendy buzzword "iconic" so somebody's asleep at the wheel there in Corporate HQ-land...

Imagine, the iconic line up from Armadillo Distribution Enterprises,  the horror.  

https://reverb.com/news/gibson-files-a-trademark-lawsuit-against-dean-and-luna-guitars

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by SteveFord

[rct]

6 hours ago, Rabs said:

How long has this page been up?

NOTICE: The following Trademarks are owned by Gibson Brands

https://www.gibson.com/Registered-Trademarks

 

 

Looks like in 1993 they trademarked the outline of the Les Paul and every other thing they make.  It also looks like a bunch of suits have been filed against them regarding that trademark and others, but none of those suits have any decisions attached.  Weird.

rct

[Rabs]

9 minutes ago, rct said:

 

Looks like in 1993 they trademarked the outline of the Les Paul and every other thing they make.  It also looks like a bunch of suits have been filed against them regarding that trademark and others, but none of those suits have any decisions attached.  Weird.

rct

Its all starting to feel like an episode of The Twilight Zone or something....  All very odd.....

They seem to have a double cut shape (other than the SG) which looks like the Johnny A..  So does that mean game on for the DC Junior or other DC shapes? Odd...

Edited June 22, 2019 by Rabs
eidt

[rct]

I still think that desperate times call for desperate measures is a good portion of the answer.  When your costs exceed your income you have to monetize as much as you can after the real estate is considered.  Might as well try to monetize the shapes and stuff.  It seems like pissing straight up a rope, like trying to trademark the shape of a car or a house.

rct

[Rabs]

5 minutes ago, rct said:

I still think that desperate times call for desperate measures is a good portion of the answer.  When your costs exceed your income you have to monetize as much as you can after the real estate is considered.  Might as well try to monetize the shapes and stuff.  It seems like pissing straight up a rope, like trying to trademark the shape of a car or a house.

rct

Probably...

[Larsongs]

Shouldn't a Trademark protect your Original Designs & Creations & IP, from being Counterfeited? Also, giving the Trademark owner the exclusive Right to Profit from them? Isn't that the reason for having Trademarks? 

[merciful-evans]

10 hours ago, pauloqs said:

 

I had a guitar with G-Force and titanium nut for 3 years. I thought they were great,  but I did get a bit lazy about changing the strings with them. As for the titanium nut, I never had any issues with it, but I use 10-46. The 2015 had a brass nut that I heard was too soft for the speed of the G-force, as it would eat away the brass, hence the switch to titanium. With that said, I know I'm a minority that liked the G-Force tuners and I think they made the right move to not carry them anymore.

I find quite interesting, however, when they come up with solutions that people are asking for and get criticized for it afterwards. For instance, the textured back plates were shielded and they introduced is as a response to complaints about noise. People complained about it until they brought back the simple smooth plastic back plates. They got a lot of backlash for the bronze nut which they addressed with the titanium nut. I even heard of customer service sending owners of 2015 guitars sending them replacement titanium nuts. 

Out of curiosity, what made you go the HP route? They had very similarly spec'd guitars without G-force and titanium nut since 2016. Was is the neck heal, dip switches, or the wider fretboard that had you chose an HP?

For me it was the weight of the guitar I got. I was on the hunt for a LP standard under 8lbs and I happened to stumbled upon an HP that weighed 7lbs 14oz. I ended up really liking the heel joint and the toggle switch, but I preferred the fretboard width of the regular LP Standard. 

 

G-Force and titanium nut for 3 years: Check. Me too. I quite liked it and felt disappointed on the one occasion when the tuning did go wrong, because I was then compelled to change to ordinary tuners. 

I love the titanium nut. 48s wont fit? Bummer, but titanium can be reworked / fettled (I have experience working with titanium). A fine diamond file would work. Make no mistake, it could be hard work but worth it IMO. I really like to adjust string height at the nut. 

[LarryUK]

They own 'Double Ball'! Ooh Matron!!

 

ps. Do you Americana's understand and get the 'Carry on' humour? 

Edited June 22, 2019 by LarryUK

[Karloff]

Edited June 22, 2019 by Karloff

[Big Bill]

12 hours ago, pippy said:

Are you a Loony by any chance?

No offence intended but you come across as a lunatic.

Pip.

 

Pip, don't feed the trolls.

[merciful-evans]

3 hours ago, Karloff said:

 

Man, its a good job I had just finished eating and had blown my nose!

Inspired pic choices there 🤣

[Big Bill]

3 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

 

Man, its a good job I had just finished eating and had blown my nose!

Inspired pic choices there 🤣

 

Oh man, snot and food!! That would have messed up you screen...

[pippy]

4 hours ago, Big Bill said:

Oh man, snot and food!! That would have messed up you screen...

But, on the plus side, have provided you with dessert.

Pip.

[badbluesplayer]

On 6/21/2019 at 3:04 PM, Big Bill said:

I'm often amazed when I pick up one of my Gibsons that's been sitting on the hanger for a couple of weeks untouched and find it perfectly in tune.  

Gibson's DO stay in tune.  They got that figured out.

[01GT eibach]

I don't really have any problem with it, but doing this in 2019 seems a little late in the game.  But, yes, any of their designed shapes should require a license from Gibson to allow the manufacturer to allow them to do so.  My guess is that Fender is watching this closely ... Strats and Teles are copied even more than Gibsons, I would bet ...

[NighthawkChris]

At first I thought nothing about the video that was released, but then watching the events unfold, this was a misstep here on Gibson’s part. They shouldn’t have announced in the disgruntled video they are protecting their stuff, then turn around and get a lawsuit going. They attacked the consumer for not being authentic which is just wrong. There’s a reason why the video isn’t there anymore... To add, people today don’t care what other stuff is out there, they will buy a LP for north of 2 G’s because they like the guitar. But now that you will buy a 10lb hunk of wood that breaks your back every band practice for this kind of money only to promote the avid disrespect for the customer letting you know YOU need to play authentic and we are going to make sure only authentic stuff comes out because we are taking legal action to stomp out the competition this way is just bad. Every dollar you put toward this company promotes this “we are going to sue you because you are our perceived competition” strategy so they think they can get a grip in the market. 

People just want an “iconic” guitar that plays well and inspires them to continue making music. Shame on Gibson for shaming us for not being “authentic”. Just another greedy company trying to make a power play and look how much backfire has come their way. I post this here on their forum because they are going on the wrong direction and basically blew anything good they had going for them with new leadership because I wanted this company to succeed. And for what... To see this crap happen? Get real Gibson. You’ve done more damage to yourself then help - a lot of damage. People were ready to buy your $2.5k LPs and we were digging them, but now your 10lb hunks of wood will collect dust because you shamed us for not being authentic - which no one really gave a F about in the first place... have fun suing smaller guitar companies and trying to do a power play in the market after a bankruptcy. You’ll sell more guitars next year for more money this way... Sorry but I can’t stand by this company after all the sticking up for you during the tougher recent times. Not going to sell my Gibsons but I’m not going to give my patronage anymore. Don’t care what happens in the lawsuit, the damage is done. Shouldn’t have gone after the consumer in that insulting video you removed. Who flipping does that? I mean wow!

Edited June 25, 2019 by NighthawkChris

[badbluesplayer]

Maybe they just need glasses and couldn't see what they're doing was wrong, lol.  I needed glasses for years before I broke down and got them.

[Big Bill]

4 hours ago, NighthawkChris said:

At first I thought nothing about the video that was released, but then watching the events unfold, this was a misstep here on Gibson’s part. They shouldn’t have announced in the disgruntled video they are protecting their stuff, then turn around and get a lawsuit going. They attacked the consumer for not being authentic which is just wrong. There’s a reason why the video isn’t there anymore... To add, people today don’t care what other stuff is out there, they will buy a LP for north of 2 G’s because they like the guitar. But now that you will buy a 10lb hunk of wood that breaks your back every band practice for this kind of money only to promote the avid disrespect for the customer letting you know YOU need to play authentic and we are going to make sure only authentic stuff comes out because we are taking legal action to stomp out the competition this way is just bad. Every dollar you put toward this company promotes this “we are going to sue you because you are our perceived competition” strategy so they think they can get a grip in the market. 

People just want an “iconic” guitar that plays well and inspires them to continue making music. Shame on Gibson for shaming us for not being “authentic”. Just another greedy company trying to make a power play and look how much backfire has come their way. I post this here on their forum because they are going on the wrong direction and basically blew anything good they had going for them with new leadership because I wanted this company to succeed. And for what... To see this crap happen? Get real Gibson. You’ve done more damage to yourself then help - a lot of damage. People were ready to buy your $2.5k LPs and we were digging them, but now your 10lb hunks of wood will collect dust because you shamed us for not being authentic - which no one really gave a F about in the first place... have fun suing smaller guitar companies and trying to do a power play in the market after a bankruptcy. You’ll sell more guitars next year for more money this way... Sorry but I can’t stand by this company after all the sticking up for you during the tougher recent times. Not going to sell my Gibsons but I’m not going to give my patronage anymore. Don’t care what happens in the lawsuit, the damage is done. Shouldn’t have gone after the consumer in that insulting video you removed. Who flipping does that? I mean wow!

 

Wow Chris, I didn't see it as a slam on the consumer but I can see where someone can take it and such. I perceive this whole lawsuit stuff as a way for Gibson to get themselves out of the red. It's a bit desperate move IMHO. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Big Bill

[NighthawkChris]

18 minutes ago, Big Bill said:

 

Wow Chris, I didn't see it as a slam on the consumer but I can see where someone can take it and such. I perceive this whole lawsuit stuff as a way for Gibson to get themselves out of the red. It's a bit desperate move IMHO. 

Whatever it is this is a corporate monster that is still not putting their sights on the ball. They don’t need to do a lawsuit in TX where they can stack the deck, they don’t need to tell me to play authentic and explain counterfeits to me, they need to work on LISTENING TO THEIR BASE who will actually bring them up from the depths. People aren’t happy with the awful video and the way their cards are being laid out. They are screwing up big time as this is not turning the ship around. Going after Armadillo isn’t the answer nor is it the reason they fell in a hole. It’s called bad decisions and they are continuing to make them. Sad to say as a die hard Gibson fan really. Sad to watch... I don’t rant about their QC or the other stupid things, but I quite honestly found it insulting in the video where Mark is going off at the end on players to be original and authentic. F off, it’s my choice to play whatever I want. If I buy a chibson that’s my deal - not that I do but the point is it’s my choice. I chose to play Gibsons and pay what I have for them. And threatening lawsuits that are simply to establish precedent. And the video in public domain where 99% or more viewers are average joe. What’s your message Gibson?  Don’t buy a guitar because it looks like a single cut? Don’t play that guitar because we are going to sue them? Work on making better guitars rather than videos because you suck at making videos.