SteveFord Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I really don't see the price drops that everyone is talking about. I only looked at a couple of models but the Firebird V is 2 grand, the SGs are up there, and the 335 line up is priced rather iconically. Luckily, I have enough guitars to see me through the rest of my days. I may want more and may buy more but I don't need more. Brand protection lawsuits are their business but it reminds me a lot of Harlee trying to trademark everything in sight and going after all of the small businesses. They may have won in court but it sure made them look like petty bullies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloqs Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 The Les Paul Standard is now $2,500, which is less than what the Traditional was going for (the traditional was 2,800 if I remember correctly). The Studio and Classic went back to what I think was the 2017 price, $1,500 and 2,000 respectively. Before that the studio was closer to $2,000 ($1,800 if I remember correctly) and the Classic used to go for around $2,500. The Standard was more than $3,000, yet the Modern is $2,800 (similar specs without the burst finish). The SGs stayed fairly the same and I believe the LP Tribute as well, but I'm not 100% sure about the Tribute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 1 hour ago, pippy said: ....................................oh my word!...and For Goodness' Sakes, Boy!... I hope my original meaning, read in context, would have made it clear that "...dishonesty and lack of personal integrity..." are NOT values which I rate quite highly; quite the reverse being the case. "Must Do Better, Connor!" was the general refrain - then as now.... Who will be 'The Custodian of the Brazier' once you renounce your claim to the title?... Pip. You’re probably the most eloquent person here. No need to second guess, we all gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Great thread. Lot of feeling in all these posts. Sincere and...... Authentic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 27, 2019 Author Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, jdgm said: Great thread. Lot of feeling in all these posts. Sincere and...... Authentic. Almost Iconic one might say 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 How many big breakthrogh ideas or designs have the major guitar companies come up with in the past 50 years that have made much difference compared to if they'd never bothered changing anything? ...must be a tricky business to be in when product innovation is virtually pointless (if not counterproductive) and yet you need to stimulate repurchase when there's fundamentally no need for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) As the owner of over 50 copyrights, I would think musicians would have respect for copyright / trademark issues. My Father in law acquired a trademark, and it was a lot of work. Everything else is just bs and opinion. Edited June 28, 2019 by Murph 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, 'Scales said: How many big breakthrough ideas or designs have the major guitar companies come up with in the past 50 years that have made much difference compared to if they'd never bothered changing anything? ...must be a tricky business to be in when product innovation is virtually pointless (if not counterproductive) and yet you need to stimulate repurchase when there's fundamentally no need for it. This is a large part of the 'problem' which the manufacturers of musical instruments face. Once the basic form and function of most musical instruments have been addressed there comes a point after which it becomes very difficult to discover great improvements. The product will have reached a level of technological maturity which becomes, in effect, a plateau on which some people can explore by going off in different directions but the basic design will remain inherently the same. The 'orchestral' (if you like) violin, for example, is a classic case in point. Here is an instrument which was created around about the middle of the 16th century and, some relatively minor constructional details apart, has remained practically unchanged for 500 years! Sure; it's possible to buy electronic violins and some of these are skeletal and barely resemble the acoustic version but essentially the instrument is as it was in the days of Amati and the rest of the boys. Classical guitar is the same. Grand piano is the same. And so it goes with woodwind, brass, percussion and so on. And it's not just musical instruments. Think about a bicycle frame. The basic form of the ubiquitous diamond frame 'Safety Bicycle' was established just a few decades after the very first experimental 'Velocipede' was crafted. Some weird and wonderful bikes have been created by imaginitive engineers in the ensuing 140 years but to this day the diamond frame design has never truly been bettered. I know lots of folks swear by the virtues of a recumbent but until such time as I see a rider on a recumbent winning the Tour de France... You have to feel a bit sorry for the likes of Gibson and Fender. To this day their largest selling instruments were all designed, as 'Scales noted, between 50 and 60 years ago. Indeed both companies, due to demand from people such as ourselves, have spent a very large part of the last two decades - or more - sending their finest luthiers on a quest to try to replicate these Iconic guitars down to the tiniest detail. The fact that these instruments, once crafted, can last a lifetime if properly cared for doesn't help matters either. How many of us here have owned the same guitar for decades? If the casual player buys a guitar when they are in, say, their late teens / early twenties why would they ever need to buy another guitar in their lifetime?... Pip. Edited June 28, 2019 by pippy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, pippy said: If the casual player buys a guitar when they are in, say, their late teens / early twenties why would they ever need to buy another in their lifetime?... Pip. It must be the pursuit of iconic TONE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said: It must be the pursuit of iconic TONE By which time Grasshopper is no longer considered to be a 'Casual Player' but rather a Novice Disciple who has embarked on their Holy Tone-Quest... Pip. Edited June 28, 2019 by pippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, pippy said: If the casual player buys a guitar when they are in, say, their late teens / early twenties why would they ever need to buy another guitar in their lifetime?... Pip. Yes, Shifu. But many spouses have never received a satisfactory answer to that question. Edited June 28, 2019 by Black Dog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Yes, Shifu. But many spouses have never received an satisfactory answer to that question. I don't even have an answer to that question myself let alone my not being able to conjure-up a half-way credible one to give to my wife! Pip. Edited June 28, 2019 by pippy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, pippy said: I don't even have an answer to that question myself! Pip. And such is the affliction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHenry Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I can't help thinking this approach could be counter productive, because thinking back to when I was a teenager non of my friends or I could hope to buy a Gibson, back then we thought anyone who had a real Gibson must have really "made it". We all played copies, at the time the UK was full of them all of varying levels of quality, there were Ibanez, CSL and Antoria to name just a few. The thing is we all aspired to own a Gibson (or Fender in some cases) and some of us went on to do just that, I believe the one's who didn't just have no interest in playing guitar anymore. They do say that imitation is the most sincere form of flattery! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 hours ago, 'Scales said: How many big breakthrogh ideas or designs have the major guitar companies come up with in the past 50 years that have made much difference compared to if they'd never bothered changing anything? ...must be a tricky business to be in when product innovation is virtually pointless (if not counterproductive) and yet you need to stimulate repurchase when there's fundamentally no need for it. Good question. Another good question is how many ideas had real potential as breakthrough; only to be scuppered by an indifferent public who just don't like change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 40 minutes ago, pippy said: I don't even have an answer to that question myself let alone my not being able to conjure-up a half-way credible one to give to my wife! Pip. I quit even trying to justify it. If I really want it I just buy it. then let her know. easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. and while she's pissed and not speaking to you it just gives you more time to pay your new guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, IanHenry said: ...when I was a teenager none of my friends or I could hope to buy a Gibson.........We all played copies.........The thing is we all aspired to own a Gibson (or Fender in some cases) and some of us went on to do just that......... I agree 100%. I wanted a guitar like Paul Kossoff's and so my first guitar, just like Ian mentions above, was a Les Paul copy. I used to dream about one day being able to buy a 'real one and eventually I did. Pip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bill Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 19 hours ago, Black Dog said: That's very cool! When will you get it? Monday!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 47 minutes ago, Big Bill said: Monday!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Well this is interesting then. Looks like Gibson just lost another case in the EU for the Flying V shape. https://guitar.com/news/gibson-loses-flying-v-trademark-case-in-eu-court/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 hours ago, merciful-evans said: Good question. Another good question is how many ideas had real potential as breakthrough; only to be scuppered by an indifferent public who just don't like change. Yeah, maybe we could start a list of genuinely good ideas from the past 50 years that actually could have been useful to most players in either guitar design or features. Gotta admit I'm struggling to think of much.....locking tuners maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Rabs said: Well this is interesting then. Looks like Gibson just lost another case in the EU for the Flying V shape. https://guitar.com/news/gibson-loses-flying-v-trademark-case-in-eu-court/ Yup. I have absolutely no idea how much the law firm employed by Gibson charges by the hour but perhaps it's time for Gibson to consider the financial implications of dragging this case through every court in every country in every continent of the world. I'm no Ivy League educated lawyer but even I realise that Gibson have less than a snowball's chance in Hell of, ultimately, being victorious in this crusade - whether they are in the wrong or in the right. A precedent has now been not only set but, after reconsidering various matters on appeal, reaffirmed by the Supreme Courts which officiate in these matters for all European markets. Time Out for a serious rethink, chaps. Pip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I am lucky in that my wife could care less how many guitar I buy but if she DID I now have the answer: It is not just another guitar, it is an iconic tone machine (insert trade mark here) unlike no other which is why I had to buy it end of discussion. That would do the trick. I know that I started off playing Fender and Gibson copies but as soon as I could afford it I got the real thing. I wanted the real thing right off the bat but twerps in junior high school don't have a lot of extra pocket change. Maybe things are different now but they'd be better off producing affordable, quality instruments instead of suing the knock off guys. The kids will know they're knock offs and the ones who keep at it will upgrade as soon as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Scales Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) Kind of feels that way Pip. I'm not a lawyer either (thankfully), but I'd speculate: Great time to copywrite = when you develop something new OK time to copywrite = when it looks likes like someone may be copying it for the first time Dumba$$ time to copywrite = when every man and his dog have copied it for 50+ years without you prosecuting your IP Edited June 28, 2019 by 'Scales Spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) Out of all the Guitars I own from the Gibson line. I had to back off. All the reash names they come up with. les paul , Change to tulip tuners , the call it a 59 put chrome buttons on it change the color they call it a classic Bash it a round a bit they call it timely aged or what ever. But at the end of the day its a Les paul. No different with the acoustic line . How many versions of a J45 do they need? There only J45s There are alot of builders out there that out do Gibson. Some of those were past employees some will be future employees . And they have good skills. Edited June 29, 2019 by slimt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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