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Western Stars by Springsteen

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4 hours ago, FZ Fan said:

That is about all most of listen to here we love our Vanilla Groups. Bruce was once touted as the savior of R N R. Bruce is a great songwriter, but his stuff has bored be since about 1979 or so. Like I said before just because you say I'm in the minority doesn't mean I'm wrong. Wasn't this country started from angry people who were in the minority? As my handle states... that guy was never bland.


I'm not sure it is an issue of "right" or "wrong." The comment about being in a "minority" is merely a nod towards the popular acceptance of -- and critical praise for -- Springsteen over the years. Nobody is forcing you to like, or even listen to, Bruce, just as nobody is making me pop a Ted Nugent CD in the player, thank goodness.

The thing I'm wondering, though, is who has changed -- Springsteen or you? As I see it, the guy is still writing about the things he's always written about in one form or another. He has stayed true to who he is. You used to like him. If you are the one whose tastes have changed, why fault Springsteen?

There was a time I liked Charlie Daniels. I've seen him live and will be the first to admit the influence he's had on music; heck, the guy even played bass on Bob Dylan's "Nashville Skyline" album. Undeniably, he has a place in music history. But his anti-Muslim, anti-Arab and xenophobic rhetoric really turned me off. Springsteen may have political views, but it isn't fueled by (nor is it manifested in) hate. You can't say that about Daniels and Nugent. Both have said hateful things. (Sorry, but telling Obama to suck on your machine gun is hateful.)

Daniels is a pretty active blogger and I used to read his website from time to time to see what he was saying. I remember one time he wrote a column about how you couldn't be a Christian and believe in evolution. In the reader comments, I posted a comment (written respectfully and calmly) saying that was really a stretch and that there were plenty of people of faith who believed in evolution. I even cited the names of some scientists who had done important work in evolution who were also known for having strong religious faith.

A day later, I got an ALL-CAPS email from the man himself, saying the theory of evolution was the "biggest lie ever foisted on humans." He went on and on. While I was impressed that he would reply personally, I was saddened that he took such a wrongheaded view. It was clear he saw things as either-or. To him, you could believe in science or you could be a person of faith, but you couldn't be both.

So, yeah, he lost me on that one.

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On 6/17/2019 at 3:09 PM, fortyearspickn said:

Steven,   I'm sorry if my post reminded you of an acid reflux belch..

Honestly, I wasn't thinking specifically of your post when I wrote that part, though because I started off quoting your post I'd see how you'd think that. I'm sorry about that. The acid reflux was more generally about the comments sections of, say Youtube, and newspapers, where people just let 'em rip (even if the connection to the subject is tenuous). Didn't actually see much bile in your comment, and the only question I'd have had about it specifically was when did Babs, the cast of Hamilton and Pence start playing Gibsons? If that were true, whatever else one might say about them at least they have good taste in guitars.

On 6/17/2019 at 10:39 AM, JuanCarlosVejar said:

Everyone who thinks he is some guy who wishes death upon others  probably doesn’t know that the name of the show was “Hypotheticals” and wasn’t meant to be taken literally rather  he was just stating what muslim scripture had to say about “capital offenses”. 

I agree with your main point, JC. I've watched the video in which Yusef said those things and have never been able to decide exactly one way or the other, though I'm also certain that your description of what the British press did with it is accurate. Given the high tension at that moment and the fact that a death sentence had been put upon Rushdie, to "joke" in the way Yusef claims he was joking (though it didn't look like "dry British humor" to me) is tone deaf, at the very least. So I can understand why Rushdie would still hold it against him, as what I've read of Yusef's "apologies" or accounts of the incident tend suggest that he, Yusef, was the victim of the incident. I don't know.  In any case, I certainly know I agree with your main points.

On 6/17/2019 at 11:32 AM, ThemisSal said:

I think Bruce is a genius song writer and story teller

I agree with this, and have thought this even more since I've learned to play and sing (badly and very badly, respectively) some of his songs. They're great. The only issue I've ever had with Bruce is just a matter of personal musical taste: to me, most of his stuff seems overproduced; the material is strong enough, and his own talent, that sometimes the production strikes me as overkill. So I'm one of those people whose favorite album of his is Nebraska. But that kind of opinion says nothing about the artist, and everything about what appeals to the particular listener (though we sometimes like to act as though it's all the artist's fault). For this reason I'll often enough like covers of Springsteen's songs a bit more than the album versions of them--which means I should listen to yours!

On 6/17/2019 at 6:03 PM, Jim Wilson said:

At no time did I say that "SHUT UP AND SING" should be the law.  Methinks you are getting a little silly.  Forgive me for having an opinion that appears to differ from yours...I thought I lived in America.

You seem to be one of those extraordinarily literal readers of which certain countries seem to produce so many, but I can assure you I didn't believe you were *actually* proposing a law to that effect (although in certain US state legislatures I'm sure a "Shut Up And Sing" bill  would go pretty far, and even national politicians have suggested laws that would curtail free speech).

But as you live in America (which I didn't know before you told me, as there are people from around the world on this blog, and I'm an American with dual-citizenship living in Europe), then I'm sure we're in agreement on issues of free speech, which is not just an American ideal (it pre-dates America) but a fundamental principle of democracies in all parts of the world.

I find it ironic that you believed *your* rights to free speech to be threatened by my mere disagreement with your original "SHUT UP AND SING" post--even as you suggested an opinion that artists (or *certain* ones, as dhanners points out) should keep their mouths shut when not performing.

But it's the kind of irony that's lost on literal readers. (Who seem inevitably to read almost everything as another instance of themselves being victimized.)

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Let me be very clear about this....I listen to music to be entertained.  While I am trying to enjoy music, I don't care to be preached to by the right or the left.  They certainly have a right to free speech...and I will exercise my right to free speech by getting up and walking out of the concert.  I really appreciate those who just shut up and sing.

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Stevendv, I too find some of Springsteens stuff overproduced, and I too have Nebraska as one of my all time favorite albums, of any kind by any artist. However, the production bit is only a minor gripe in a catalouge of wonderful music spanning almost forty years, and it probably says more about my inclination towards low-fi than anything else.

Springsteen's music has been a constant in my life since about 1980, when I was a twelve year old kid. I still listen to him today. To me, the new album is his best in recent years. 

As a Swedish saying goes, taste is like our back side - parted. 


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At the risks of sounding 'pathetic' ...  

I don't mind it if an 'artist' uses his talent to communicate any message he feels strongly enough about to put it out there, AS ART.  If the art is good, and the message interesting, I  will listen. 

I DO  mind it when any person uses their position of fame -  to intimidate  others into abandoning their own views, or their resolve to develop their own views.

In this country,  we have had, for decades, a bias in the media (which entertainers  are part of) which provides them with more face time, outside of their actual performances.  Therefore, in order to get ahead, you have to occasionally  come up with a statement that will make the headlines trashing something or someone on the other side.  

Your Liam Neeson is a case in point. 



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Okay, to return closer to the original post: double pick guards: some people love the way they look, some hate it; some think they ruin tone/sound, some don't worry about it (or at least not apart from  each specific guitar). But aside from  lefties (guitarists, not political parties) who in a world of so many guitars for right-handers might be happy to see an easy conversion come their way, does anyone actually find the double pick guard useful?

Do you have a double pick guard guitar that's been protected from marks you make on your other guitars?

Or do you have a guitar that you wish would have had un upper pick guard  on it because of the way you (or its previous owner) played it?

I can imagine they might be useful, but really have no idea from personal experience, so I'm wondering if some people out there do.

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4 hours ago, blindboygrunt said:

Nobody cares what a bunch of us think in here 


Maybe , what the correct tuning pegs should be on a '61 j45 

Sitting there in bedrooms saying that he shouldnt say this and he shouldn't say that and you shouldn't be listening to whatever 

It's like a hen house 


where is the “amen” emoji when I need it?

anyways them double pick guard J 200 models sure is purty...

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I was an early member of this forum. I love so many people here, from whom I've learned a lot. But, alas, because this is the guitar forum that turns to ugliness and politics more quickly than any other, I've often taken long sabbaticals. I returned recently after several months away. I wish you all the best. I've a lot to discuss re the positive vibes from the new management. PM me to discuss. Because, I'll not be back.

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8 hours ago, jt said:

I was an early member of this forum. I love so many people here, from whom I've learned a lot. But, alas, because this is the guitar forum that turns to ugliness and politics more quickly than any other, I've often taken long sabbaticals. I returned recently after several months away. I wish you all the best. I've a lot to discuss re the positive vibes from the new management. PM me to discuss. Because, I'll not be back.


I hear you JT , and part of me wants to ask you to wait and give me a lift , but let's not let the pigs take over the farm . 

Hang around,  you keep the average intelligence level up .


Goes for you too scriv , and any other 

Theres still fun to be had here regardless

Edited by blindboygrunt
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1 hour ago, Jim Wilson said:

Or, some of you folks could just lighten up and accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you.  It's not the end of the world and there is no need to run and hide.  it's just life. 

Writes the guy whose broad-minded light-hearted contribution to the discussion was that musicians should just "SHUT UP AND SING"...

It's also "just life" that some musicians and other entertainers talk about politics, or even sing about them. While some just sing about themes that grate on some people as being from an "implicitly political" angle.

I don't see that anyone commenting on this thread from any perspective has been "running and hiding" or finds it impossible to imagine that not everyone agrees with them. Just the opposite, I'd say.

Given the the fact this thread started out being about a double pick guard J-200 one might wonder why anyone felt compelled at any point to say anything at all about whether or not they listen to Springsteen, as that wasn't even vaguely related to the original post. (It's a little like someone declaring during a conversation about a recent Yankees or Manchester United game that "I haven't followed that team since Dererk Jeter or Cristiano Ronaldo left." Okay, and your point is..? It obviously has nothing to do with the game--no more than the comments about not listening to Springsteen have to do with the original subject of this post.)

But, hell, now the forum is fillin' up with "pigs" and "hens" and others of below "average intelligence": commenters who have "earned" these labels by not writing about what they should in the way they should, according to those folks labeling them as such. 

Irony really is absent from this forum, ain't it?

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The 'pigs' was an animal farm reference 

Hens as in a lot of clucking with not much content of interest to folk who some here to learn about guitars 

Pointing out that the thread started as a pickguard discussion  from one of the main protagonists shows that irony really isnt missing from the forum 


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 I suspect our readings of Animal Farm might differ, too, and that's just fine. No comment on the hens....

I foolishly took the bait, I admit it, but if you look at the first comments that yanked this thread out of its original path it was the same old comments that are made every time Springsteen is mentioned in any thread in any context. I should have just let them go, I know that.

Edited by stevendv
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