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1969 Gibson Hummingbird in need of Pickup


Sunburstdigger

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Hello I came into possession of a 1969 Gibson Hummingbird with the western style pick guard, it is All original with the wood saddle, I am reaching out to you all for suggestions for an electric pick up but not an under the saddle. I've watched the Ricky Skaggs endorcing the LR Baggs Lyric but some consider it to be boomy?

I'm sure with the right eq you could get it out?  I've read about the k & K mini also, but I feel that asking Hummingbird owners or at least larger bodyAcoustic owners there may be some consistency,  in other words a smaller body Martin pick up will sound totally different? That's why I wanna hear from You Hummingbird Folk

I look forward to hearing your expertise! Thank You!

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6 hours ago, Sunburstdigger said:

Hello I came into possession of a 1969 Gibson Hummingbird with the western style pick guard, it is All original with the wood saddle, I am reaching out to you all for suggestions for an electric pick up but not an under the saddle. I've watched the Ricky Skaggs endorcing the LR Baggs Lyric but some consider it to be boomy?

I'm sure with the right eq you could get it out?  I've read about the k & K mini also, but I feel that asking Hummingbird owners or at least larger bodyAcoustic owners there may be some consistency,  in other words a smaller body Martin pick up will sound totally different? That's why I wanna hear from You Hummingbird Folk

I look forward to hearing your expertise! Thank You!

You are very unlikely to be happy with the Lyric. I had one in a Martin 00DB (I bought the guitar secondhand and the pickup was already in it) and it was sort of okay, but not particularly nice. When I bought the guitar, the shop staff actually said "this is a great guitar but the pickup is horrible, we would recommend changing it", which took me aback and made me determined to get to the bottom of the Lyric and make it work, but it always sounded clicky and nasal, and when the nasal frequency was notched out there wasn't a lot left. A very narrow frequency pickup and HORRIBLY feedback prone.

I have a K&K in my Hummingbird 12 string, and it's wonderful. Really suits the guitar and sounds gorgeous. However, for most of my 6 strings I use soundhole pickups. Mainly Sunrises, but I also have a Seymour Duncan MagMic which I like very much and a Fishman Rare Earth Single Coil which is not quite as nice as the others but is a reasonable spare.

Personally, in your case I'd recommend the K&K if you want a permanent install, or a Sunrise/Baggs M1A or M80 if not. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Sunburstdigger said:

thanks Jinder,  I guess if I got the K&K I would also have to get a fishman aura or something, because from the videos I heard there was much more brilliance and presence to the  Lyric vs the K&K though none were in a Live setting in higher volumes..

The Aura system won't work well with the K&K-it's intended for Fishman's proprietary undersaddle pups and won't be a good impedance or processing match with the K&K's output. The best solution for the K&K is either a Fire-Eye Red-Eye preamp or K&K's Pure XLR pre. The former has a boost function which is useful, but the K&K pre has three band EQ which is also very useful...both will sound very good.

In my experience the Lyric certainly wasn't lacking in brilliance, but I wasn't able to dial in any low end to speak of without inducing hellish woofing feedback, even at relatively low volumes and in a small bodied instrument. The K&K is a much more musical sounding pickup and in a real-world situation is much more versatile and reliable. I've used the K&Ks in my J45 and Hummingbird 12 on all manner of stages and they sound very good indeed with little EQ beyond a mid scoop. The Lyric was a constant fiddle and fuss.

One thing I do think the Lyric might be interesting for is a second source with a magnetic pickup, run in stereo with the bass and mids scooped out of the Lyric and the top cut out of the magnetic. 

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On 6/28/2019 at 12:29 PM, Jinder said:

. The best solution for the K&K is either a Fire-Eye Red-Eye preamp or K&K's Pure XLR pre. The former has a boost function which is useful, but the K&K pre has three band EQ which is also very useful...both will sound very good.

I'm using the K&K with Fireeye red eye, like it a lot.  I got to this through recommendations on this forum, and happy with the direction.

Not to derail, but for a '69 anything or other, I'd probably try to learn to live with a soundhole p'up (and the one I want is a sunrise) if having something else required any mods to the guitar.

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I have a few guitars with the K&K and generally use them with the Fire Eye when gigging. However, lately I started also using my Martin D15 again - which has a simple Baggs M1 passive. The gain is not super high, but the mixer adjusts. Really an incredible sound too. You can use this without drilling for an endpin. By the way, I did adjust several of the pole heights down in the mids, and up in the bass....   

 

 

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I have the Fishman F1 Aura+ in my Martin and I love it, but I would NOT be wanting to be putting holes in a vintage guitar (or any guitar for that matter) other than drilling out the endpin and drilling holes for an undersaddle piezo. You might look at an ellipse Aura, but while it may sound good, it probably wont sound identical to the acoustic sound. My Martin with the the Aura+ actually has recorded sound of the same guitar( or maybe just the same model, but they did only make 100 of the one I have so could be a recording of the same guitar) and it sounds almost identical to the acoustic sound. I’ve had an LR Baggs Anthem, which is a lyric and an element, and I really liked it, never had any feedback problems with it. Still not identical to the acoustic sound but pretty good. Ive since sold that guitar and today actually I bought a used Anthem SL for a good price to replace the Element VTC in my J45.  LR Baggs is a great company to work with in my experience, they are sending me new adhesives for the element and the Anthem SL for free. Ive heard some pretty good reviews from people about the Lyric and I was actually going to buy one, but the Anthem SL I found was for a really good price, so I figured I’d settle for that

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Rare Earth Humbucker sound hole pickup.  Two screws.  No marks on the guitar.  Leave the cord dangling from the soundhole.  No modification or damage to the vintage guitar.  I use it on all of my flattop guitars.  No pre-amp needed as it’s a magnetic pickup.  Easily interchangeable between guitars.  Lifetime warrantee.  Sounds fine (great in my book.)

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

 

 

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Thanks for all the info and Ideas.. My Guitar friend when I 1st showed it to him told me the under the saddle input that was already in it was cheap and the 2nd reason it was not right for it was because it had the original rosewood saddle in the bridge and to make it work to have full contact was to recut another saddle and replace it, but keep the rosewood in case I wanted to sell it with original parts.. so the end pin jack is already there so no biggie getting something to plug in no matter what it is? If I were to go with a soundhole pickup I would Not have it dangling from the front, I would step on it and do damage to it.. and the clicking sound of the cord would drive me nuts!

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On 7/3/2019 at 2:30 AM, ThemisSal said:

I have a few guitars with the K&K and generally use them with the Fire Eye when gigging. However, lately I started also using my Martin D15 again - which has a simple Baggs M1 passive. The gain is not super high, but the mixer adjusts. Really an incredible sound too. You can use this without drilling for an endpin. By the way, I did adjust several of the pole heights down in the mids, and up in the bass....   

 

 

 

I have a Baggs M1A in my floating arsenal of many pickups, adjustable pole pieces all adjusted and the included preamp makes it louder than the passive and ready to plug into a PA or mixer or acoustic amp. A lot of other pickups need extra ‘stuff’.

So I would recommend a simple install of the M1A to leave your vintage guitar....vintage. Your endpin has already been drilled, just attach the pickup in the soundhole, after putting in the little battery,  run the lead out the endpin hole, attach the plug end, insert guitar lead and Bob is you Uncle!

 

BluesKing777.

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53 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

I have a Baggs M1A in my floating arsenal of many pickups, adjustable pole pieces all adjusted and the included preamp makes it louder than the passive and ready to plug into a PA or mixer or acoustic amp. A lot of other pickups need extra ‘stuff’.

So I would recommend a simple install of the M1A to leave your vintage guitar....vintage. Your endpin has already been drilled, just attach the pickup in the soundhole, after putting in the little battery,  run the lead out the endpin hole, attach the plug end, insert guitar lead and Bob is you Uncle!

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

I recorded a quick track of the Baggs M1A in my 1959 Gibson LG3 to give you an idea of the sound:

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Sunburstdigger said:

Cool.. Thanks Bluesking..I didn't know you could adjust the poles.. does it have a volume control or is the 9v battery setup?

 

There is a volume control and the battery is little 2032 type watch battery slipped in to the underside of the pickup.

I have taken the 1 and 2 poles out and wound the others down for a more ‘woody’ sound - the higher the poles and closer to the stringd, the more ‘electric’ it sounds. The problem, to me, of the Fishman Rare Earth mentioned above by QM is that it has no adjustable pole pieces.

While I love my Sunrise sound, it needs a few extras, and the Seymour D Mag Mic has a battery bag and 9 volter attached....a bit weird if you don’t install it all (Me!) But they both have adjustable PPs.

No, all in all, the Baggs M1A or their M80 are pretty easy.

 

BluesKing777.

 

Edited by BluesKing777
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5 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

 

I recorded a quick track of the Baggs M1A in my 1959 Gibson LG3 to give you an idea of the sound:

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Is there a mic involved there at all BK ?

You've got that m1a as good as they ever sound there , just wonder if theres any bleed from a mic in that recording ?

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1 hour ago, blindboygrunt said:

Is there a mic involved there at all BK ?

You've got that m1a as good as they ever sound there , just wonder if theres any bleed from a mic in that recording ?

 

No mic anywhere, BBG

I cut a lot of bass, a lot of middle and a lot of treble....to smooth the sound out. It is the same eq setting I use with my Sunrise and Seymour Duncan Mag Mic pickups. (Plus the 1 and 2 poles are removed plus the others down very low. The 3 pole seems to pickup enough of 1 and 2......some people like those strings louder, depends on the music I guess.)

BluesKing777.

 

Edited by BluesKing777
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I used a portable Fishman Rare Earth Blend soundhole pickup when I wanted to use  my old 69' CW - sounded very fine and natural but it wasnt my first gigging guitar.  Im not a big fan of M1a's at all, to my ears the sound is kinda megnetic and not natural.

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50 minutes ago, EuroAussie said:

I used a portable Fishman Rare Earth Blend soundhole pickup when I wanted to use  my old 69' CW - sounded very fine and natural but it wasnt my first gigging guitar.  Im not a big fan of M1a's at all, to my ears the sound is kinda megnetic and not natural.

Did you listen to the sample EA?

Old BK has pulled a rabbit out of the hat I reckon.

Sounds as good as a pickup gets in my opinion

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7 hours ago, EuroAussie said:

I used a portable Fishman Rare Earth Blend soundhole pickup when I wanted to use  my old 69' CW - sounded very fine and natural but it wasnt my first gigging guitar.  

 

The product’s been around awhile, and as someone pointed out, you can’t adjust the volume on each string...but, it does have an overall volume control and the overall sound is quite balanced so I’ve never had the need to have the volume adjusted with it on a per string basis.  The beauty of it is that you can just put it on and use it directly into an acoustic amp or a PA and just the treble, bass, and midrange controls on the amp or PA and you’re good to go.  (Or, on an electric guitar amp, turn the treble down some and you’re good to go.)  It’s 2 small lithium batteries last  really long and no preamp is needed as it’s a magnetic pickup.   Plus, it can stay on the guitar or be easily removed with two screws.   As mentioned, I leave the cord hang out of the guitar, and have the female ended cord wrapped in a foam so if I leave the pickup on the guitar, I just stick the cord and it’s female jack end inside the guitar.  The foam wrapped around the end jack keeps it from doing any damage inside the guitar.  Been doing that for 14 years now.  BTW, I never step on the cord hanging from the guitar during a gig.  Or at least never any more  than I step on the cord coming out of the guitar on one of my guitars with a built in pickup.  Common practical use of any guitar cord.   The true beauty of it though is to just put it on and it works or take it off and put it on another guitar...all in about 3 minutes.   I went to Sam Ash and asked to first try it before buying it when I bought it.  Liked it a lot, so no reason to change for me.  I presently gig six days a week with it during the warm weather season...for four years now.

With a drilled end pin already in the guitar, it can easily be attached by it’s cord if the end pin plug is male or with a short male ended ext cord if the end pin cord is also female.  

Just my experience.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

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On 7/6/2019 at 3:27 PM, blindboygrunt said:

Did you listen to the sample EA?

Old BK has pulled a rabbit out of the hat I reckon.

Sounds as good as a pickup gets in my opinion

 

BK is a finger picker in which the M1a  has its best light, but for for strumming I found it to sound magentically 'phasey',  not natural. Even in that BK sample I found it to be clear, articulate but lacking considerable amount of warmth or decent bass. It didnt really grab me. Just dont like that pickup, but I get a lot of others like it, and thats fine of course

Edited by EuroAussie
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2 hours ago, EuroAussie said:

 

BK is a finger picker in which the M1a  has its best light, but for for strumming I found it to sound magentically 'phasey',  not natural. Even in that BK sample I found it to be clear, articulate but lacking considerable amount of warmth or decent bass. It didnt really grab me. Just dont like that pickup, but I get a lot of others like it, and thats fine of course

 

Do you reckon lifting the guitar off him and handing one with the rare earth blend would be much better ?

 

Thinking about pickups,  need opinions!

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well  I'm definitely a strummer but in no way a beater.. my pick guards. have zero scratches on All my guitars for what its worth..and as for modifications that may devalue  the instrument,   I dont plan on selling  this Once in a lifetime Gem of a guitar, having said that, I don't believe for a minute that installing a pickup with "double sided tape" will decrease the value so what is your take on say the anthem SL? I definitely like a warm rich tone.

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17 hours ago, blindboygrunt said:

Thinking about pickups,  need opinions!

Someone posted a Baggs M1A that sounded phenomenal.  Couple that where I've developed an opinion it's 95% the player making the p'up sound good - I feel M1A is solid if you want soundhole, K&K + fire eye red eye if you don't mind drilling the end pin jack.  Everything else is just playtime..

But my playtime list would be:

  • Sunrise if you want a soundhole p'up
  • K&K + Tonedexter + good mic (i.e. Edwina) for a permanent set up
Edited by billroy
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15 minutes ago, billroy said:

Someone posted a Baggs M1A that sounded phenomenal.  Couple that where I've developed an opinion it's 95% the player making the p'up sound good - I feel M1A is solid if you want soundhole, K&K + fire eye red eye if you don't mind drilling the end pin jack.  Everything else is just playtime..

But my playtime list would be:

  • Sunrise if you want a soundhole p'up
  • K&K + Tonedexter + good mic (i.e. Edwina) for a permanent set up

Yeah , BK got a great tone from his m1a 

Heard that and commented on it 

I have an m1a , trying to get the tone out of it to match BK , probably need an EQ pedal ...

Not so impressed with the tonedexter , well, its grand , but its price doesnt justify the sound  that I've heard so far ...

The m1a example was much more pleasing than the tonedexter examples and still reckon BK's spectrum aura got my favourite noise 

 

Lots of online examples of the m80 have peaked an interest in those also ...

Have had a k&k in a previous guitar and liked it grand ....

I know jinder rates the sunrise , and I'd listen to his opinion as hes many feathers in the cap and has tried and tested a load of variations , but again ,while its non too shabby, I've not heard an example that really sets it streets apart from any other ....

A lot of it is the player for sure 

Chasing rainbows 

 

 

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