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sunking101

Brand new 2019 50s Les Paul Standard dent under scratchplate

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Just got this baby home, removed the scratchplate and the nut behind the bracket has been pushed into the maple top causing a very noticeable dent. Upon closer inspection the scratchplate bracket was installed kinda flat without the usual angle, with the screw being drilled below the binding. Not happy!

I rang the dealer and apparently they're all like this. WTF? So my brand spanking new £2000GBP instrument is damaged from the factory?

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I'm a pretty big defender of Gibson in most cases.  I think a lot of the QC complaints you see are BS.  However, this issue seems to be a real problem.  I've seen a bunch of examples of these. 

I'm a pick guard on kinda guy, but it would still bother me a lot knowing it's damaged.  Gibson needs to fix this.

Although, I think for your dealer to say they are "all" like that is a bit of an overstatement because they don't want you to send it back.

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1 hour ago, merciful-evans said:

Hi, and welcome to the forums.

Who is the dealer?

Got any pictures of this damage?

 

It's a well known UK dealer in Leeds.

I've just returned from the store and he had two LP Classics and both had the damaged top from the scratchplate nut. I bought the only Standard he had in stock a couple of hours earlier.

So three out of three have this fault. I've Googled and some say to put a piece of felt between the nut and the top but I cannot even get a piece of paper under my nut, it is resting on the maple top. The bracket needs to be bigger, it needs to extend further or alternatively Gibson should employ a different type of design that attaches to the pickup surrounds.  The crude oversized nut and bolt is  ridiculous, the scratchplate attachment really does seem like an afterthought.

 

Anyway, my dealer will offer me a credit note against any other guitar or merchandise of the same value (!) but he will not offer a refund. That's the price you pay for not buying online! No cooling-off period. Damn. Any thoughts?

Edited by sunking101

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Hi and welcome to the nuthatch.

Tricky. IMO it rather depends on whether you are going to keep the p'g on and how much you are affected by small blemishes on your guitars.

Like Black Dog I'm also a p'g on guy so, although I can see why you are irritated, I personally wouldn't let it rankle too much. I'd also sort-of be a bit relieved to get over the fear of 'The First Ding of Many' but for it to come from Gibson like that is, I agree, a bit ridiculous in this day and age. I thought I had read that Gibson were now supplying the 'guard loose in the case but perhaps that only applies to certain models in the line-up.

Obviously it's up to you. If the guitar sounds and plays superbly then (IMO) it's a no-brainer to keep it. After all; it will pick up more dents, nicks, scratches and blemishes as time goes by and  if you are a p'g off person the top will be even more likely to become scratched / dented / damaged in any case.

But I'm not all that precious about my kit getting a little bit beat-up. I know it will happen so don't let it bother me in the slightest. YMMV.

Just my tuppence-worth.

Pip.

Edited by pippy

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6 minutes ago, pippy said:

Hi and welcome to the nuthatch.

Tricky. IMO it rather depends on whether you are going to keep the p'g on and how much you are affected by small blemishes on your guitars.

Like Black Dog I'm also a p'g on guy so, although I can see why you are irritated, I personally wouldn't let it rankle too much. I'd also sort-of be a bit relieved to get over the fear of 'The First Ding of Many' but for it to come from Gibson like that is, I agree, a bit ridiculous in this day and age. I thought I had read that Gibson were now supplying the 'guard loose in the case but perhaps that only applies to certain models in the line-up.

Obviously it's up to you. If the guitar sounds and plays superbly then (IMO) it's a no-brainer to keep it. After all; it will pick up more dents, nicks, scratches and blemishes as time goes by and  if you are a p'g off person the top will be even more likely to become scratched / dented / damaged in any case.

But I'm not all that precious about my kit getting a little bit beat-up. I know it will happen so don't let it bother me in the slightest. YMMV.

Just my tuppence-worth.

Pip.

I have guitars that are ten years old and have no noticeable blemishes. I'm really, really careful with them. No clothes with zips, presstuds, metal buttons, rivets, buckles or badges etc when I go to play one of my guitars and they live in their cases when I'm not using them to prevent accidental damage. I don't gig so nothing leaves the house. My brand new LP actually has more damage than any other guitar I own, so to say that they get dinged up anyway isn't (touch wood) true in my case.

I was going to be a pickguard off kinda guy but now feel forced to keep it on and even then it's bugging me that I know there's an imperfection underneath. Also, I'm of the opinion that a brand new premium item should arrive in mint condition whether it's to get bashed up during my ownership or not...

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This indeed has been an ongoing problem with the LP pickguard bolt and nut.  Gibson should have figured out how to attach some sort of bumper by now.

FWIW, this was addressed with the 2015 models (and possibly others) with removable pickguards.   Being removable, there is no bracket to start with.  But to keep the look authentic (( guess) there is still a hole in the pickguard and a bolt used, but the end of the bolt has a nice bumper on it to keep the bolt from indenting the body. 

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Wow. Sounds like some of the QC problems haven't been sorted out yet.

I bought a 2018 BFG, which is pre-damaged from the factory on purpose... 😁

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I also hate this, all the LPs i've had and have removed the pickguard have had this blemish =( on my current gold top its really noticeable but i decided to leave it that way and try not to let it bother me

like  Wmachine said, they made removable pickguards in 2015, they were so practical but i guess ppl thought they were not like the original LPs so they went back to the original way

Edited by FemmeParallell

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6 hours ago, sunking101 said:

I'm of the opinion that a brand new premium item should arrive in mint condition whether it's to get bashed up during my ownership or not...

 

In which case why are you even bothering to ask the question as to what to do?

Take it back and demand a refund. If you were sold damaged goods then you must, by law, get your money back. The response 'They are all like that'  is demonstrably not true because they are not all like that. Nor should you be expected to accept faulty goods. Take it back. Get a refund. Threaten court proceedings if neccesary. If they call your bluff then instigate court proceedings. It's really not that difficult. They WILL lose.

The ball is now in your court. Please let us know how you get on.

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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This is a 50yr old " problem,  "

I even have a Japanese clone from 1982 that has the ding.

If that's only problem,  I wouldn't worry about 

But, nitro is workable,  

The drill hole will be an issue if you take the guard off, 

But the little dent, just put a drop nitro on the spot and it should blend in 

Stewmac USA sells nitro, don't know who does in UK

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Sadly this is not the first I have heard of this..  That guy that reviews guitars on youtube saw it several times on new 2019s

Go to 9:40

 

 

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2 hours ago, pippy said:

 

In which case why are you even bothering to ask the question as to what to do?

Take it back and demand a refund. If you were sold damaged goods then you must, by law, get your money back. The response 'They are all like that'  is demonstrably not true because they are not all like that. Nor should you be expected to accept faulty goods. Take it back. Get a refund. Threaten court proceedings if neccesary. If they call your bluff then instigate court proceedings. It's really not that difficult. They WILL lose.

The ball is now in your court. Please let us know how you get on.

Pip.

Court proceedings?  Really?  You've been reading too many forums I'm guessing.  So how did your case work out for you? 

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10 hours ago, Wmachine said:

...You've been reading too many forums I'm guessing.  So how did your case work out for you? 

 

Your guess is wholly wrong and I've never yet found it neccessary to take anyone to court to achieve a satisfactory outcome. Good manners, politeness, a well-reasoned discussion and a smattering of common sense always seems to win the day IMX.

YMMV.

Philip.

Edited by pippy
Sp.
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Most likely what's happening is that when they're tightening that screw they're just pushing it down, pressing the nut against the top to hold it in place while tightening rather than using a wrench.  They probably figure it doesn't matter since it's being sold with the guard mounted.  I can see that logic, but a lot of people take them off,or are just bothered by the damage.  

It seems very easy to solve.  If they're under too much time pressure, or too lazy to use a wrench or something to protect the top, then just sell them with the pick guard off.  Easy.

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15 hours ago, Wmachine said:

Court proceedings?  Really?  You've been reading too many forums I'm guessing.  So how did your case work out for you? 

In the UK we have something called the Small Claims Court (I can't remember but I think it's anything up to £5000), you don't need lawyers you can do it yourself,it's not that difficult.

 

 

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That is a shame and something I wasn't aware of.  In the olden days, the bracket that attaches to the bottom of the guitar had a slot instead of just a hole, and thus the height or angle of the pickguard could be adjusted to hold it up off the top a little more and avoid this problem.  The newer ones just have a hole so there is no adjustability.  I have a 2013 LP with the pickguard, and there is a little clearance between the nut on the back and the guitar top - no problem.  I also have a 2017 Standard that came with the pickguard unattached, but in the case.

I always use pickguards so I installed it.  Checking it after seeing this post I find that the nut on the back is touching the guitar so I probably do have a blemish on the top.  Since I always keep the pickguards on it isn't an issue for me, as I will never see it unless I remove the pickguard for cleaning/polishing purposes.

As mentioned, nitro is workable so it could be repaired at little cost - but I see your point - why should you have to spend money to repair a brand new item.

Hopefully the way the guitar feels playing it, and the way it sounds is more important to you than this blemish.

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8 hours ago, pippy said:

 

Your guess is wholly wrong and I've never yet found it neccessary to take anyone to court to achieve a satisfactory outcome. Good manners, politeness, a well-reasoned discussion and a smattering of common sense always seems to win the day IMX.

YMMV.

Philip.

I'm not surprised you  have never "found it necessary".  That's why I was questioning your suggestion.  That is an "easier said than done" suggestion that can easily not be a good suggestion.  Without personal experience, how can you consider that a good suggestion?  Especially being sure he will win?  That seems to lack your smattering of common sense.  Sorry, but I disagree that it is anything close to a good suggestion in this case.

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37 minutes ago, Wmachine said:

I'm not surprised you  have never "found it necessary".  That's why I was questioning your suggestion.  That is an "easier said than done" suggestion that can easily not be a good suggestion.  Without personal experience, how can you consider that a good suggestion?  Especially being sure he will win?  That seems to lack your smattering of common sense.  Sorry, but I disagree that it is anything close to a good suggestion in this case.

 

Fine by me. Suggest something yourself. Hopefully you can suggest something which will sort everything out.

Pip.

Edited by pippy

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2 hours ago, Twang Gang said:

That is a shame and something I wasn't aware of.  In the olden days, the bracket that attaches to the bottom of the guitar had a slot instead of just a hole, and thus the height or angle of the pickguard could be adjusted to hold it up off the top a little more and avoid this problem.  The newer ones just have a hole so there is no adjustability.  I have a 2013 LP with the pickguard, and there is a little clearance between the nut on the back and the guitar top - no problem.  I also have a 2017 Standard that came with the pickguard unattached, but in the case.

I always use pickguards so I installed it.  Checking it after seeing this post I find that the nut on the back is touching the guitar so I probably do have a blemish on the top.  Since I always keep the pickguards on it isn't an issue for me, as I will never see it unless I remove the pickguard for cleaning/polishing purposes.

As mentioned, nitro is workable so it could be repaired at little cost - but I see your point - why should you have to spend money to repair a brand new item.

Hopefully the way the guitar feels playing it, and the way it sounds is more important to you than this blemish.

 

I can’t speak for 2013, but the new ones, the 2018 and 2017 have slots. Here are pictures of my 2017 Standard T and my Standard 50s pickguard brackets.

xbfKX6E.jpg

tFjMga8.jpg

Those are the same types of brackets used in my R9. However, on my R9 the nut and bolt had about 1/8” clearance from the body. On my Standard 50s the nut and bolt was touching the body. Personally, I wish both Gibson USA and Gibson Custom would stop shipping the guitars with mounted pickguards, like Gibson USA were doing in previous years with the Standards. 

I’m a pickguard off guy and although the minuscule ding on my Standard 50s don’t bug me one bit, Gibson USA clearly doesn’t know how to properly mount pickguards. The pickguard screw holes, on the other hand, do bug me a lot. 

Edited by pauloqs

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3 hours ago, Wmachine said:

I'm not surprised you  have never "found it necessary".  That's why I was questioning your suggestion.  That is an "easier said than done" suggestion that can easily not be a good suggestion.  Without personal experience, how can you consider that a good suggestion?  Especially being sure he will win?  That seems to lack your smattering of common sense.  Sorry, but I disagree that it is anything close to a good suggestion in this case.

 

It was a suggestion and/or option, be it good or bad, it was up to the OP could consider or not. Pippy suggested I stuff an opinion up my arse once, did I consider it, yes. Did I follow it, no. Was is good or bad advise, I guess you had to be there. The point I'm trying to make, an option was thrown out and its upon the OP to accept it or not. If I was a betting man, Pippy knew he wasn't going to take that advice. I would also bet the OP wouldn't take the advise.

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I have a Standard 50s coming on Monday, so is this what I have to look forward to? My 2013 Standard doesn't have this issue. I'm a pick guard on guy so it's not going to bother me too much. (I hope)

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1 hour ago, Big Bill said:

...Pippy suggested I stuff an opinion up my arse once, did I consider it, yes. Did I follow it, no. Was is good or bad advise, I guess you had to be there. ..

 

I'm so terribly sorry, Bill. That was a typo. I meant to type 'Onion'.

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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On 6/28/2019 at 1:56 PM, Wmachine said:

This indeed has been an ongoing problem with the LP pickguard bolt and nut.  Gibson should have figured out how to attach some sort of bumper by now.

FWIW, this was addressed with the 2015 models (and possibly others) with removable pickguards.   Being removable, there is no bracket to start with.  But to keep the look authentic (( guess) there is still a hole in the pickguard and a bolt used, but the end of the bolt has a nice bumper on it to keep the bolt from indenting the body. 

 

20 hours ago, pippy said:

 

Fine by me. Suggest something yourself. Hopefully you can suggest something which will sort everything out.

Pip.

 

I'm sorry, I though inferred in my answer was a suggestion to use some sort of a bumper on the nut end.   

I'm afraid to say this, but I'm glad I'm not that concerned about nicks and scratches.  It is not a matter of not caring at all to the point of careless handling and care, but those are harmless things that come with use and age anyway.  I find other things far more important to me to spend my time and energy with.  I understand there  are those greatly concerned about visual flawlessness.  Fine for them, but I'm glad that's not me.

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