Health Care; a Right or Privileged?

[NeoConMan]

You have the right - and the freedom - to care for yourself and those you love.

You have a responsibility to ensure your children are healthy.

 

It's that simple.

 

You Left-leaning Obama lovers and wealth redistribution proponents need to reconcile yourselves with the fact that what you want is charity for everybody.

 

The LAST thing any government should be doing, and and is ALWAYS the eventual downfall of every one, is charity.

When the people vote themselves prosperity from the national treasure, the treasure is soon gone.

THEN who will support those of you who never supported yourselves?

 

All you Looney Toon Lobotomized Lefty Liberals need to print the following and stick it on your bathroom mirror.

I call it the Liberal 8 Step plan to Universal Suffering.

Read it every morning and night until you GET IT.

 

 

 

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years.

During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

 

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From liberty to abundance;

From abundance to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back into bondage.

 

We're now in the seventh of the eight with Obummer driving the bus off the cliff to number eight.

 

Tell me where I'm wrong Homz.

 

Tell me something. Anything.

[Bluemoon]

You must have had a horrible existence in high school - never able to express you opinions without getting picked on' date=' chosen last for every team, girls laughing at your advances and attempts at humor....

[/quote']

 

that isn't an insult?

 

I don't see many facts being posted on either side. Just a bunch of run-of-the-mill rhetoric.

 

And Neo, WTF dude? You are not winning any arguments here, you are just bullying people into submission. You obviously have very strong opinions and I respect that. But strong opinions are still just opinions. It doesn't make what you say right. And that is the same for Homz.

 

There is nothing productive in these discussions--just a pissing match between two alpha males.

[Homz]

You have the right - and the freedom - to care for yourself and those you love.

You have a responsibility to ensure your children are healthy.

 

It's that simple.

 

You Left-leaning Obama lovers and wealth redistribution proponents need to reconcile yourselves with the fact that what you want is charity for everybody.

 

The LAST thing any government should be doing' date=' and and is ALWAYS the eventual downfall of every one, is charity.

When the people vote themselves prosperity from the national treasure, the treasure is soon gone.

THEN who will support those of you who never supported yourselves?

 

 

[/quote']

 

I have no arguments with your opinions. Why would I. It's the gross generalizations and the out right flames where I have issues. But, hey if that's how you need to communicate I'm good.

 

So before you say it. I don't have an argument. I haven't even posted my opinion on this thread. Probably wont. I'm not entirely sure what my opinion is.

[Homz]

 

that isn't an insult?

 

I don't see many facts being posted on either side. Just a bunch of run-of-the-mill rhetoric.

 

And Neo' date=' WTF dude? You are not winning any arguments here, you are just bullying people into submission. You obviously have very strong opinions and I respect that. But strong opinions are still just opinions. It doesn't make what you say right. And that is the same for Homz.

 

There is nothing productive in these discussions--just a pissing match between two alpha males.

 

 

 

[/quote']

 

I sorry blue. I been a bad boy.

 

Just messing with you man. You are correct. No sarcasm.

 

It's pretty sad when you actually have to say "no sarcasm". That sort of means nearly all my posts are filled with stupid.

[NeoConMan]

So which one of your many rants was there a fact in?

Pick one. I don't care which' date=' just pick one and challenge me.

You can't do it because you're fully aware of the humiliating fate that awaits you.

Thanks for confirming exactly what I keep telling you.

 

 

 

You came to this forum intent on a crusade for people who wont stand for their own opinions.

I've been in this forum for years.

I was in the old forum before that.

You really wanna try to stake OWNERSHIP ( I was here first....) in an internet forum? Oh, that's rich.

 

 

 

You never tried to find out if what they said was true.

Huh?

I challenge bullsh!t. True it stands' date=' false it falls - kinda like everything you post.

 

 

 

You just started a fight.

No, I challenged you and you responded just like you did in Kindergarten.

Went crying and hid behind the teacher's skirt.

Real big, real bad, real loud as long as nobody can touch you.

Completely devoid of humor unless it's along the same infantile lines as yours, you can't recognize it elsewhere.

 

 

 

Hey dude I'm not your bitc*' date=' [/quote']

Yes, you are.

At least until you do something to change it, and I've seen no signs or hope of that happening.

Looks like you'll have to learn to live with it.

:-)

 

 

 

....boy' date=' or any other form of toady like those that expect you to fight for them.[/quote']

Again, yes you are.

Are you getting used to it or are you gonna twist in the wind and squeal like a little girl?

:-)

 

 

 

Personally I think your a chump for falling for it.

Personally' date=' I don't care what you think.

I think you are a typical Liberal, and I have no animosity toward you as an individual - unlike you towards me.

I see you as an enemy of sorts, a faceless, nameless footsoldier in a war to destroy this nation.

 

I was doing this when Carter was president, well before your hero Al Gore invented the internet.

I'm an old hand at flaming Liberals until they fall apart in a fit of crying, whining, infantile rage.

I see you're progress is similar to theirs.

 

 

 

So if you want to do the bidding of your little girls then go for it.

My little girls are 15 and 11. Along with my wife and mother, they benefit from my efforts.

Everybody else is secondary including Obama, you, and any of your sob story Oprah/Springer show baloney.

 

 

 

I'm here and I ain't backing down from some over grown boy scout with delusions of grandeur.

Don't back down.

I never asked you to.

I challenged you for a reason.

 

 

 

I have no arguments with your opinions.

Finally' date=' an admission of your obvious impotency.

We're making progress...

 

 

 

Why would I.

I don't know.

63 million Obama voters against me, and I'm busily setting them straight.

They're starting to come around....

 

 

 

It's the gross generalizations and the out right flames where I have issues.

Then let's actually HEAR the issues!

This is where you fail every time.

 

 

 

But' date=' hey if that's how you need to communicate I'm good.[/quote']

At least I communicate. Do you have ANY doubts what my intent is after you read a post of mine?

Am I articulate enough that you have an idea what I'm expressing?

Most people seem to think I communicate just fine' date=' they just don't like what they hear.

You on the other hand, cute little quips with literary excerpts in your signature every time.

Nice juxtaposition there.

 

 

 

So before you say it. I don't have an argument.

I've already said it. Told you again and again.

You're finally hearing something?

 

 

 

I haven't even posted my opinion on this thread. Probably wont. I'm not entirely sure what my opinion is.

So your intent is to simply start sh!t and offer nothing to back it up.

You wanna post some hoops and rings in the forum and watch everybody jump thru them like your own personal circus - I'm sorry if the GOP Elephant (me) doesn't fit thru your hoops.

Pity your little circus tent won't weather the storm.

 

LOOK EVERYBODY' date=' HE'S BACKING DOWN JUST LIKE HE SAID HE WOULDN'T.[/b']

 

SURPRISE!!!

[Bluemoon]

 

I sorry blue. I been a bad boy.

 

Just messing with you man. You are correct. No sarcasm.

 

It's pretty sad when you actually have to say "no sarcasm". That sort of means nearly all my posts are filled with stupid.

 

 

I wasn't quoting you in my post.

[Homz]

 

What's the point.

 

I king thee.

[NeoConMan]

Glad to hear it Homz.

 

Don't want a crown, just logic and sanity - and money in the bank instead of Ubummer's D.C.

 

 

 

that isn't an insult?

Yeah' date=' sorry Blue.

Kinda.

 

:-)

 

 

There is nothing productive in these discussions--just a pissing match between two alpha males.

I challenge that assertion as well.

Homz is no Alpha.

He's the wannabe that gets teeth marks on his snout and runs off squealing into the woods...

 

:-)

[Homz]

 

I wasn't quoting you in my post.

 

Well you did say there were no facts in either of our posts and thus the only point was a fruitless argument. I agreed with you.

[Homz]

No I ain't no Alph Male. I would consider it an insult to be one. In psychological terms it's not all that flattering.

 

Neo is the Alpha, Beta, Zeta, and Omega.

[NeoConMan]

Flattery gets you nowhere with me.

Doesn't flip any switches in my brain, I try to see things clearly and that wouldn't help matters one bit.

 

 

 

Care to discuss THIS point then, and move past all the unpleasantries?

 

 

 

 

You have the right - and the freedom - to care for yourself and those you love.

You have a responsibility to ensure your children are healthy.

 

It's that simple.

 

You Left-leaning Obama lovers and wealth redistribution proponents need to reconcile yourselves with the fact that what you want is charity for everybody.

 

The LAST thing any government should be doing, and and is ALWAYS the eventual downfall of every one, is charity.

When the people vote themselves prosperity from the national treasure, the treasure is soon gone.

THEN who will support those of you who never supported yourselves?

 

All you Looney Toon Lobotomized Lefty Liberals need to print the following and stick it on your bathroom mirror.

I call it the Liberal 8 Step Plan to Universal Suffering.

Read it every morning and night until you GET IT.

 

 

 

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years.

During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

 

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From liberty to abundance;

From abundance to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back into bondage.

 

We're now in the seventh of the eight with Obummer driving the bus off the cliff to number eight.

 

Tell me where I'm wrong.

 

Anybody.

[Homz]

To whom are you refering, sir.

[NeoConMan]

Anybody.

[NeoConMan]

By the way, that brilliant quote is attributed to Alexander Fraser Tytler - over 200 years ago.

 

Very telling in that regard, I think.

 

Why do people in our society think they have it ALL figured out but dismiss all the "old stuff' from 250 years ago?

[Homz]

IMO

1) you will need to establish the link of President Obama to claims you make

2) you will next need to established there are these people who you claim follow that doctrine previously established; we will call Obamaism

3) you will need to post the sources for your information

4) you will need to find someone who opposes your theories; so that you can actually have a debate

5) there is no 5) that's about all I got; because as stated their your opinions and I'm fine with that.

[MikeRom]

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From liberty to abundance;

From abundance to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependence;

From dependence back into bondage.

 

I remember hearing that. From the little girl in the movie Swing Vote reading her essay. Wondered where it came from orignally or if it was written for the movie. Excellent description of where we have been / heading. I put us at 6 barreling head long towards 7. Other side of 7 is a very slippery slope to 8. Scarey.

 

I'm done with this subject now. Moving on ...

[NeoConMan]

Yeah, now Homz is trying to get me to jump thru some hoops again.

Doesn't learn.

 

Liberals and cats, they're one and the same.

 

:-)

[Basshole]

Man homz this is rediculous now. It was cool and fresh to post policts in the fourm but now its becoming a battlefield. I think we all should take a break from posting topic on politics on the fourm. before you and neoconman rip off each others heads. I think everyone should be able to post there belief on here and not be attacked but at the same time be consiterate of each other. Make shure you type something that won't be inturpreted wrongly.

 

my .02

[Homz]

Yeah' date=' now Homz is trying to get me to jump thru some hoops again.

Doesn't learn.

 

Liberals and cats, they're one and the same.

 

:-)[/quote']

 

Don't jump then. I'm not hung up on the whole thing. Jump or don't. What ever makes you feel good.

 

Remember I backed down. You won. Your Viagra is stronger then my kung fu.

[Gitfidl]

Whether or not **citizens** (and non-citizens too???) have a RIGHT to health care (notwithstanding), it really comes down to a question of having the MONEY to pay for health care. The money has to come from somewhere (it doesn't fall out of the sky like liberal manna from heaven (from the God they don't think exists). So it has to come from taxes (a tax base) and that means there has to be something to tax (like corporations and income earners). If the banks have failed and the corporations are closing and the wage earners are being reduced then the tax base is not expanding. (you know??). IF at the same time the "baby boomers" are just now arriving at the Medicare age (and Social Security) and the gubmint doesn't have enough money to pay THEIR medical bills THEN how would the gubmint pay EVERYONE's medical bills? So now let's assume it found the money (it won't, but just for argument sake) .. money is only ONE resource. There are other resources missing :People, things, time. People (doctors, nurses, technicians, ambulance drivers, orderlies, LPN's) do not exist to provide ALL the care that is needed. It takes years to train a doctor (med school, internship, residency -- and lots of money -- at least $500,000 or borrowed money -- from banks -- that are BK). Things: hospitals, emergency rooms, X-ray machines, CAT scan machines, operating rooms, out patient clinics, monitors, ICU units (they do not exist and without them the money and the professionals cannot do a thing). TIME .. it's bad time, the banks have collapsed, credit is zero, auto makers are down sizing, jobs are disappearing and consumers are not consuming. It is a time when the Baby Boom bubble is retirement aged. It is a time when younger workers have major expenses just raising a family. Maybe in ten years it will be better .. but that does not mean health care today. Maybe in ten years it won't be better -- what will happen to make it better? What NEEDS to happen to make it better (wealth has to be created -- lots of wealth -- **creation** precedes **production** -- that means MBA's have to come up with something to make -- but wait they are setting wage limits on MBA's because **they make too much??** )... so maybe the biggest thing that is missing is accurate thinking. Maybe the thing that is needed the most is a lot of realism about people, money, things, time and what it takes to come up with those resources. Maybe we need MORE than just change.

[Homz]

Man homz this is rediculous now. It was cool and fresh to post policts in the fourm but now its becoming a battlefield. I think we all should take a break from posting topic on politics on the fourm. before you and neoconman rip off each others heads. I think everyone should be able to post there belief on here and not be attacked but at the same time be consiterate of each other. Make shure you type something that won't be inturpreted wrongly.

 

my .02

 

Read all the posts. I already agreed with that point. I kinged Neo.

[NeoConMan]

IMO

What does this mean?

I'm not a young' date=' hip text messenger...

 

 

1) you will need to establish the link of President Obama to claims you make

Watch CNN.

What he leaves out of his message, they fill in. Nobody misses a beat that way.

 

 

 

2) you will next need to established there are these people who you claim follow that doctrine previously established; we will call Obamaism

That's kinda vague and convoluted.

Um' date=' I offer Congress and the Senate as Exhibit A and B.

 

 

 

3) you will need to post the sources for your information

After you, my friend.

After you.....

I tend to pull most of my stuff out of thin air, amazing what this brain has empowered me to do!

 

 

 

4) you will need to find someone who opposes your theories; so that you can actually have a debate

So' date=' you're not worthy?

IS that what you're saying?

 

My, this is disappointing.

Self esteem is often an issue with Liberals.

No, really. I'm not making this up. Guilt issues stemming from inner defiencies start the ball rolling in adolescence.

College wakes it all up and REALLY confuses things with half-assed attempts at critical thinking.

Been there, done that.

 

I felt like the only sober person at a frat party...

 

 

 

5) there is no 5) that's about all I got; because as stated their your opinions and I'm fine with that.

Okay then.

[NeoConMan]

Maybe the thing that is needed the most is a lot of realism about people' date=' money, things, time and what it takes to come up with those resources. Maybe we need MORE than just change. [/quote']

Thanks.

 

Remember personal responsibility?

 

Don't have insurance? Then you're exposed.

Can't get health insurance due to cost?

Where are the Liberals and their millions?

Why don't THEY put something together to fill in the gaps with THEIR money?

 

I'll accept none of their precious pennies, but for those of you needing charity and giveaways, get it from your brethren.

 

Ya know, the church has been doing exactly this for thousands of years, and I've been giving to my church willingly....

[James Allen]

Boy, I've been missing a good one!

 

I do not believe in universal healthcare. I feel, after being in the healthcare business with my wife for some years now (we own a medical billing company), and after conducting much study on the issue, that universal healthcare will bankrupt the country, destroy the superior healthcare we get today from our physicians.

 

I've spoken with dozens of doctors over the years about this. And, I've stated this once before, the Mcaids and Mcares are horribly mismanaged! Not only do they NOT pay for everything that poor people need concerning thier healthcare, they don't pay the physicians hardly anything. The physician usually writes off a HUGE chunk of the cost for their supplies and time, in a growing number of cases, they write off ALL of the cost.

 

Now, if we expand that, how in the world can physicians stay in practice?

 

BTW, there has been more than one state to enact a "universal healthcare" type program. In all cases, TN being one that I will use as example, it nearly bankrupted the state, requiring a major rethinking of the process. It still is a huge loss to the state every year! And to beat it all, our DEMOCRAT governor was the man who shut it down and reworked it! Hell, even a democrat could see that it was a failure.

 

One other thing, to you HOmz. Why do you get these topics started and then "reserve" your opinion for later or never. Are you not convicted enough in your thoughts to truly give your opinion. As someone who has had many debates with you, and enjoy them, I'd like to hear an honest opinion out of you every now and then.

[Homz]

IMO= in my humble opinion

 

6) I can't quote you in order to respond; makes it a bit of a pain