elantric Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Its from New Jersey - and there is no RIP - If you need a new hobby pursuing settling the potential legal hassle to claim your RIP , or even take delivery of your guitar - be my guest. I bid $50 - but noticed my Ebay bid was "automatically declined" 1 minute later smells like a Ebay scammer - run for the hills! The pic is from the Engadget blog http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/fordsho/?action=view¤t=gibson_darkfire_engadget1.jpg http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=120390758347 l***o( 100Feedback score is 100 to 499) Cancelled: US $2,556.58 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 13:01:26 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:09:31 PDT l***l( 57Feedback score is 50 to 99) Cancelled: US $2,005.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-17-09 23:04:35 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:09:59 PDT l***l( 57Feedback score is 50 to 99) Cancelled: US $10.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 16:13:46 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:14:28 PDT a***r( 48Feedback score is 10 to 49) Cancelled: US $888.88 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 17:40:04 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 17:41:41 PDT a***r( 48Feedback score is 10 to 49) Cancelled: US $1,038.98 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 17:41:58 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 17:42:54 PDT s***5( 177Feedback score is 100 to 499) Cancelled: US $50.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 16:24:23 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:32:55 PDT i***m( 27Feedback score is 10 to 49) Cancelled: US $900.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-15-09 17:34:40 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:10:12 PDT a***y( 891Feedback score is 500 to 999) Cancelled: US $2,450.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 15:15:22 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:09:46 PDT m***p( 102Feedback score is 100 to 499) Cancelled: US $6.01 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-12-09 18:35:46 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:11:09 PDT m***p( 102Feedback score is 100 to 499) Cancelled: US $500.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 17:35:29 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 17:35:51 PDT m***p( 102Feedback score is 100 to 499) Cancelled: US $520.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 17:35:53 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 17:42:59 PDT i***b( 21Feedback score is 10 to 49) Cancelled: US $160.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 16:28:45 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:33:12 PDT i***b( 21Feedback score is 10 to 49) Cancelled: US $161.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-18-09 16:37:45 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 17:43:18 PDT j***i( 8 ) Cancelled: US $800.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-15-09 11:34:39 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:10:26 PDT t***q( 0 ) Cancelled: US $100.00 Explanation: Item NO LONGER FOR SALE Bid: Mar-12-09 22:16:06 PDT Cancelled: Mar-18-09 16:11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaBoy23 Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 wow i cant beleive I didnt see that darkfire there. Ive been looking for cheap GORs and didnt even think to look at darkfires and that one was so cheap. Damnit!!! Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alouf Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Ok' date=' so I am the one selling that guitar on eBay and craigslist. I can't believe how much sh*t I am getting for it. I'm going to try to be as diplomatic about it as I can, so here it goes. There is this economic concept of supply and demand, when there is no more supply, the demand goes up which in turn pushes prices up. It's beyond me why people are taking this so personal. I don't see you attacking people flipping rare cars and collectables for an upwards of 500%. It's business and it's pretty simple, if you can't afford it, don't buy it. Obviously I am the only one on ebay selling this guitar so I have some room to dictate the ebay market price. I'm not trying to screw anyone, I'm just marketing my guitar to a different income bracket and more to the collector rather than casual player. I'm not here to attack anyone and I expect the same courtesy back, so please tell me exactly why it is you think it is so wrong for me to ask this price. I don't want to hear "because you can get it elsewhere for cheaper", this guitar is sold out everywhere. Do you remember the Ibanez shrg1z? These guitars were selling for around $4000 at the stores and I saw a few go for around $7000 on ebay right after they sold out. Or the Ibanez JS10, which retailed for $3100 and is now selling for around $10000. Where is the "outcry" for that? Everything has a material value, it is worth as much as somebody will pay for it. [/quote'] Well I don't agree with the price. It is your right to sell it at that price or any price you see fit, for whatever reason. I am just finding it hard that people will not research this a bit more before biting at 5K Anyways, good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alouf Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 In the March 2009 Guitar Center Buyer's Guide on page 3' date=' the Dark Fire is shown for $4499 List, $3349 Guaranteed Lowest Price (for a supposed savings of $1149, 28% off list). This is one of their "big sale" months. BTW: Robots are back down to $1699/$1399 too.[/color'] I don't see this price at all for the Studio Robots..they are still above 2700$ http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-ROBOT-Les-Paul-Studio-Ltd.-Electric-Guitar?sku=483023 http://www.music123.com/Gibson-Robot-Les-Paul-Studio-Ltd--Electric-Guitar-483023-i1433970.Music123 http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-Robot-Les-Paul-Studio-Ltd--Electric-Guitar-105017222-i1433970.gc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alouf Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 wow i cant beleive I didnt see that darkfire there. Ive been looking for cheap GORs and didnt even think to look at darkfires and that one was so cheap. Damnit!!! Oh well Here is a GOR going for cheap on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Robot-203_W0QQitemZ160321238251QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoSF Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well I don't agree with the price. It is your right to sell it at that price or any price you see fit' date=' for whatever reason. I am just finding it hard that people will not research this a bit more before biting at 5K Anyways, good luck to you.[/quote'] Well, I guess it all really depends on how much someone really wants it. Regardless of whether the research it or not there is still only going to be a limited amount of them on the market. It's up to them to buy it or not. I just hate seeing sellers being treated like bad people, I'm not forcing anyone to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLexxiTronic Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Yes Alouf. The two GOR's selling at Guitar Centers of which I was aware during the last 6 months were selling $2799. I think they sell a bit cheaper on EBay and CraigsList. The catalog shows the wine, ebony, metallic purple, ebony silverburst LPs and the metallic red, metallic green, wine, and ebony silverburst SGs. The words say: "Available in Metallic Purple, Green, Red, Wine Red, Ebony, and Silverburst." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alouf Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Yes Alouf. The two GOR's selling at Guitar Centers of which I was aware during the last 6 months were selling $2799. I think they sell a bit cheaper on EBay and CraigsList. The catalog shows the wine' date=' ebony, metallic purple, ebony silverburst LPs and the metallic red, metallic green, wine, and ebony silverburst SGs. The words say: "Available in Metallic Purple, Green, Red, Wine Red, Ebony, and Silverburst."[/color'] The LP in the catalog are at the discounted price 1699$ as well? GOR ebony Silverburst at the lower price would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 . I just hate seeing sellers being treated like bad people, I'm not forcing anyone to buy it. The filthy beast has arrived! Gibson Dark Fire x3 Do you own three Dark Fires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyree Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 By buying three DF's you clearly show that your intent was to make money. You helped artificially limit supply and increase demand and now run around screaming "I have what you want and you cant get it anywhere else, so I dictate the price point!". This is speculation, the same greed that contributed to spiraling oil and housing prices and then helped cause the crash of our economy. That being said, I say your a scumbag! Just my 2 cents. You probably shouldnt come here to a musicians forum looking for sympathy, most ppl here play, not try to make unreasonable profits off of their musical instruments. Personally I hope you choke on them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Could print this: "Dark Fire Applications Guide" http://media.gibson.com/DarkFire/Manuals/1_1/Gibson_Quick_Start_Manual_Applications.pdf Sell it to your Ebay customers for $100 /each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardusmcer Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Supply and demand only works once they've stopped adding to the supply... It's not like you won't be able to buy one of these guitars ever again, they are delayed. They still have to release a couple thousand of the 1st run limited editions and then they will most likely create the standard stockpile and ship those out too. look at how much percentage increase people are asking for on the 1st run limited edition robots, and see how much they're NOT making on them. It's too soon to crank the price up a couple grand and if you do sell it, it'll probably be to some kid who's parents don't know any better. Now that kid will see one in the store in 6 months for half of what he paid. No knowledgeable musician would pay this, so you are marketing at beginners and children. That is the problem, we should help and treat newcomers well, not try to rape them for 5 grand. These aren't PS3's or Wii's, we have a tighter community than gamers, we are gibson dark fire owners! You are not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoSF Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 By buying three DF's you clearly show that your intent was to make money. You helped artificially limit supply and increase demand and now run around screaming "I have what you want and you cant get it anywhere else' date=' so I dictate the price point!". This is speculation, the same greed that contributed to spiraling oil and housing prices and then helped cause the crash of our economy. That being said, I say your a scumbag! Just my 2 cents. You probably shouldnt come here to a musicians forum looking for sympathy, most ppl here play, not try to make unreasonable profits off of their musical instruments. Personally I hope you choke on them![/quote'] Wow, I don't even know how to respond to that, I'll give it a try though. Man, I bought 3 because I wanted one at home one at my commercial studio and one to keep in mint condition. You don't even know me, I make an effort to live a good life and help as many people as I can which includes giving free studio time to young struggling bands so I don't appreciate you lecturing me on musicianship. I have never in my life been called a "scumbag" and I'm sure if you knew me personally you would not think that. You know the sub-prime mortgage was at the heart of the economical collapse? It wasn't housing prices, it was the banks loaning money that the people could not afford to pay back which is solely the responsibility of the consumer to determine. And as for you putting words in my mouth "I have what you want and you cant get it anywhere else, so I dictate the price point!", that is not even close to what I was saying. I was referring to the ebay market not the consumer market as a whole and I am in no way looking for anyone's sympathy and I don't recall ever asking for it. Look, I know people like me and people like you are never going to agree but please realize that what I am doing is at the heart of every single major company in the world, including Gibson. You can go to walmart right now and buy a shirt for $5 and go to your local Nordstroms and buy that same quality of shirt with a name brand tag on it for upwards of $70. I can tell you for a fact that every piece of gear you own was sold to you for at least 3 times as much as it cost to make, but you still bought it. It's a buyers market, can you honestly tell me that if you had an item you knew for a fact would go for twice as much as you paid for it you would still sell it at what you bought it for. You would be lying to yourself if you said yes. As I said before, I am not here to make any enemies. I just want to have a civilized conversation with you and understand why exactly it is that you feel this way. But, you have proved to me that that is not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoSF Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Supply and demand only works once they've stopped adding to the supply... It's not like you won't be able to buy one of these guitars ever again' date=' they are delayed. They still have to release a couple thousand of the 1st run limited editions and then they will most likely create the standard stockpile and ship those out too. look at how much percentage increase people are asking for on the 1st run limited edition robots, and see how much they're NOT making on them. It's too soon to crank the price up a couple grand and if you do sell it, it'll probably be to some kid who's parents don't know any better. Now that kid will see one in the store in 6 months for half of what he paid. No knowledgeable musician would pay this, so you are marketing at beginners and children. That is the problem, we should help and treat newcomers well, not try to rape them for 5 grand. These aren't PS3's or Wii's, we have a tighter community than gamers, we are gibson dark fire owners! You are not[/quote'] Actually the ratio of supply to demand is dictated by how much is currently on the market and how much someone is willing to pay for that certain item, regardless of how much will be produced in the future. This is stated in any basic economic textbook. I used to work for Ferrari and there are people who were so impatient to wait for one to be built for them that they would buy one from a seller for around $100,000 more than they were purchased for. I am not trying to "rape" anyone and I can tell you for a fact that no child is going to be purchasing this guitar. There are very impatient people out there with a lot of money, trust me I live in the heart of it here in West Hollywood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hopefully you sell it in the next couple weeks - because after that the flow of remaining shipments of Dark Fires will be leaving Nashville , impacting the supply side of your economics lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoSF Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hopefully you sell it in the next couple weeks - because after that the flow of remaining shipments of Dark Fires will be leaving Nashville ' date=' impacting the supply side of your economics lesson. [/quote'] Thanks, if so, I'll just put back on the shelf. It'll be good to have a spare around anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzoSF Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Hopefully you sell it in the next couple weeks - because after that the flow of remaining shipments of Dark Fires will be leaving Nashville ' date=' impacting the supply side of your economics lesson. [/quote'] How many are supposed to hit the market anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 For those on the fence and not sure when to pull the trigger. I obtained clarity today on the total production numbers I can confirm the following effective June 11, 2009: * There will be 2000 TOTAL Dark Fires produced - NOT 2000 for North America, and 2000 for rest of the globe ( 4000 total) * The guitar will meet or exceed your expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyree Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Well, I guess it all really depends on how much someone really wants it. Sounds like you are a really "giving" guy There is this economic concept of supply and demand, when there is no more supply, the demand goes up which in turn pushes prices up. Obviously I am the only one on ebay selling this guitar so I have some room to dictate the ebay market price. this guitar is sold out everywhere And as for you putting words in my mouth "I have what you want and you cant get it anywhere else, so I dictate the price point!", that is not even close to what I was saying. Sorry, I didnt mean to "put words in your mouth" You know the sub-prime mortgage was at the heart of the economical collapse? It wasn't housing prices, it was the banks loaning money that the people could not afford to pay back which is solely the responsibility of the consumer to determine. I said helped cause the crash of our economy How quickly we forget. Quick history lesson. Prior to the subprime mortgage crisis there was a housing market "bubble" driven largely by specualtive buying which caused most of the housing in the US to be overvalued by up to 50%. After years and years of ludicrous gains the "bubble" could not sustain itself anymore and burst. The prices of houses started falling overnight and everybody rushed to sell off before they became "upside down" in their investment/ house. This caused a glut of unmarketable homes that made the situation even worse. As all this was happening people started losing their asses on investments and housing (not to mention the ones who lost their jobs) which caused alot of people to not be able to afford their mortgages especially those who were tied up in subprime loans whose payment plans were now ballooning. So now people were trying to sell houses that were worth way less than they owed the bank and they couldnt or didnt want to pay the difference and they stopped paying their motrgages en masse. Go back through the news and look, the housing "bubble" was a huge problem before the subprime morgage crisis and in fact helped spur it. If the housing bubble had never burst and everybodies homes/ property/ real estate investments were still intact and all of those people tied to it had not lost jobs everything would be churning along today as if nothing ever happened. I just hate seeing sellers being treated like bad people, I'm not forcing anyone to buy it. I can't believe how much sh*t I am getting for it. Where is the "outcry" for that? Sorry, I interpreted this as a cry for sympathy. My bad Honestly, I am sorry for calling you a scumbag, I tend to be a little harsh at times and I was wrong for saying that, I still think asking $1500 (42%) over fair market value for a guitar is wrong. It's a buyers market, can you honestly tell me that if you had an item you knew for a fact would go for twice as much as you paid for it you would still sell it at what you bought it for. You would be lying to yourself if you said yes. I can absolutely 100% guarantee you that I would never sell anything I bought at twice the price I paid for it just because there is a shortage of that product. I think this is taking advantage of somebody and I do not believe in that. So maybe im never gonna be rich and run a big company with my mindset, but then again thats ok because I would have to shoot myself if I ever ran a company into the ground asked the federal government for help and then gave myself a bonus. American people and companies have come to believe that its ok to rip off, gouge, decieve, and steal from other Americans and it has become the norm. I quite frankly am disgusted to be a US citizen right now. Of course people who think this behavior is alright dont care what I think (or people like me) as long as they are making their profit. After all if the buyer is stupid enough to buy it and I make a 42% profit then its his fault. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elantric Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 After all if [the buyer] is stupid enough to buy it and I make a 42% profit then its his fault. Right? Should update the Ebay ad and include - "Free IQ test with every sale" - results will be mailed with the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyree Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Should update the Ebay ad and include - "Free IQ test with every sale" - results will be mailed with the guitar. Damn dude you always pick something out of these heated debates that can make anybody laugh..good on you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boardusmcer Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I think you should put on your ebay page that whoever you sell the guitar too will not be able to send it back to gibson under the warranty. that either you will have to get up with him if it breaks and you will have to do it. you might consider taking something off the price since not having the warranty could, in effect, cost a TON of money. Or you could just charge $6,000 since you might have to be bothered with shipping it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLexxiTronic Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Yes Alouf. $1699 for LPs, $1399 for SGs. You ought to go get yourself that ebony silverburst LP before the GC March Sale is over, right? Keep your blue silverburst pristine, as is, like you want. With the ebony silverburst, you can update it's electronics or modify it in other ways, all without the guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLexxiTronic Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Why does it sound like people are pissed at EnzoSF ? (At least from my reading of responses). This guy seems all right to me. What's wrong with his approach? What if he does get a (large) profit on his guitar? What do I care about that? I doubt, even under the title of this thread, that anyone on this forum would care to purchase his guitar. I really doubt he is looking for a buyer here -- we aren't his market at all. Isn't he here for information and sharing like the rest of us? He "came clean", right? What's the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photonutalan1 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 RS wrote: "Isn't he here for information and sharing like the rest of us?" No; he came here to pick fights and flame us (over problems we didn't create). What DF information has he asked for or shared? He's obviously frustrated (probably because his brilliant marketing strategy isn't working out for him) and looking for attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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