NeoConMan Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Okay, I'm posting this for Guitarest. :-) He asked about my SG 12 string in the Les Paul area, so I'll repost it over here. This is actually not the first time I've put it up on the Gibson forum, a search will reveal past threads. Guitarest asked; "OK so whats the history on the 12 string SG. I know its rare, what do you know about it, where did it come from, etc...." Here's my response. It was built in 1995 on the regular production floor, not the Custom Shop. It has a regular serial number stamped on the back of the headstock. The neck is simply the 12 off an EDS-1275 double neck that never made it into the correct body. Pickups I assume to be 490/498. You've heard be talk and brag about my dealer Bizarre Guitar in Phoenix, eh? www.bizarreguitar.net Well, they sold a boatload of guitars to a certain collector over the years. He specialized in one-off, oddball, prototype and custom pieces. Bought many of them new from "sources" he has. This guy is from New York but had a winter house in Phoenix he decided to sell. So his collection is somewhere in the area of 700 pieces and he doesn't have room for all of them in New York. He called Bob (Bizarre owner) and asked for help in thinning out his collection. Bob usually isn't interested unless the pieces are special in some way but he knew what this guy had. They struck a deal and I was there the day the first of two moving trucks showed up - FULL of guitars. Oh my God. I watched as they went thru a gazillion cases and Bob bought a little over 100 of them. Many were unremarkable other than being very expensive, and new with plastic on them still. All were VERY nice - mostly Fender and Gibsons of every stripe, flavor and shape. I left and came back several days later after the dust had settled and was walking around the store in amazement. Two Custom Shop set neck Telecasters (one is still there) and all sorts of Master Built Fenders. Crazy. Gibsons I never even dreamed of.... Then I noticed something funny about one of the SG's. Twelve string? A twelve string SG? I told Mike (manager) I had NEVER seen such a thing, he smiled and said "Neither have we." Really. Well, I've seen 12 string Les Pauls, Warren Haynes plays one. I've seen 12 string 335's from the seventies, they built a few of them. But it makes no sense to put a 12 neck on an SG. Mike and Bob mentioned the Melody Maker 12 strings from the sixties, but they were not really an SG other than sharing the body shape. I think they mostly had single coils too, I could be wrong. Bob has bought and sold crazy, exotic, vintage and $$$$$ guitars all his life, owned that store for over 30 years. When he said HE had never seen one..... Okay, so I know it's not a fake. Bob wouldn't have bought it if he suspected anything of the sort. I called Gibson with the serial number, it doesn't exist. The guy tells me that it's a legit serial number, he thinks it's one of theirs, but he has no record of it. How can this be? Well, true or not, here's the story I got. I learned that Gibson was going to computers instead of paper files back then, and there was a ton of data lost for different reasons. Paper trails were no longer created for the guitars and when they ran out of computer memory they simply deleted enough files to continue on. Jeez. They recommended I call Gruhn's in Nashville, so I did. Spoke with Walter Carter, and the man knows his stuff. Turns out he's written about vintage guitars, and he worked at Gibson for decades. He has a book or two out, and is regarded as a wealth of Gibson knowledge. I would say the reputation is well deserved.... He did some digging for me in his own archives while I disassembled the SG to take detailed digital pics. I got shots from all angles inside the cavities that showed the pencil markings from construction. I got shots of the neck joint at the body. I got shots from every conceivable vantage point. Mailed them to Walter, he did an assessment and written appraisal for a nominal fee. The best Walter can figure is one of two things. 1. It was an employee guitar, a perk of working at the factory is you can build whatever your heart desires - cheap. 2. It was custom made for some celebrity, this was often done on the regular line back then. Records would be sketchy either way, a paper trail is not that important for an endorsement piece or such. So the story tells us more of what it likely was NOT. It was not built for regular shipment from the factory. It was likely not paid for by, or distributed to dealer. It wouldn't have a lifetime warranty since it was a gimme or oddball piece. (I'm not the original owner, so....) It was likely not shipped out of the factory, but carried home by the builder. If it was built for somebody special, it was likely delivered by Gibson folks personally. Much of this is sheer conjecture, I have good info backed up by many broad assumptions to fill in the blanks. Somebody out there knows more about it than I do, but I've heard nothing in the three years I've owned it. There are a few 12 string SG's out there, but they all appear to be Custom Shop pieces. They are also built very differently, appears they have a basic SG body with a specially made 22 fret neck. The neck on mine appears to be identical to my EDS-1275 in the photo beside it, the body is the odd piece. The neck has only 20 frets and joins the body at fret 15, so it's much shorter than a regular SG. To preserve scale length, the bridge is set much further back into the body. To do this, the body has no common machining or routing with a regular SG, even the control cavity is different. Look at the pics, you can see the neck pickup is right against the 20th fret like a double neck, and then there's a huge gap between it and the bridge pickup - more than double the norm. The bridge is WAY back there, further than even a double neck. Overall length is the same as an SG, the short neck gets the long headstock for all those tuners. It's no more (or less) neck-heavy than any other SG I've played. Tone is unremarkable, seems silly but I have to say it sounds like a 12 string SG. The pickups are WAY too hot, the volume stays down around 4 or it just gets muddy as hell. Playability is as good as expected, and 12 string work is now much lighter than the double neck allows. Condition is 8 out of 10 with a couple nicks on the body. It has light playing wear so it wasn't a case queen. Gold hardware is typical, the slightly tarnished and crummy looking stuff you have when the finish wears away some. Board is most likely Brazilian Rosewood to add to the collectibility. I can't think of anything else. Anybody out there have info on this thing?
modoc_333 Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 an interesting story. i'd like to check it out. i must say i don't think it's Brazillian though. from what i see in the pic, it has the least brazillian looking board of any of those. a cool guitar though. i like the smaller guard on it too. i personally would prefer nickel hardware, but the inlays are cool. is the neck bound? i can't tell in the pic. with the gold hardware and those inlays i assume it is.
SG_Mike Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Very Very nice 12 string SG you have there!!!!! =P~
SGman94 Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 dood i get hard just lookin at that thing...ill be back in 8 minutes O.o
NeoConMan Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 i must say i don't think it's Brazillian though. from what i see in the pic' date=' it has the least brazillian looking board of any of those. [/quote']Me? I have no clue. It's much lighter than the Rosewood boards on all my other Gibsons. Everybody in the know I spoke with seemed to think it is. Would I swear to it? No. I would like to see some 1275's from that era and see how they compare. Anybody have a mid nineties EDS-1275? Mine is a 2006. I agree, I much prefer the smaller guard on an SG. The neck is indeed bound, the inlays are simply the same split diamonds the EDS-1275 has. Nickel hardware would have been my preference as well. Some day the gold will look nasty enough that I'll have to pull it off. If I do, it will get nickel and all the original stuff will go in the case for the sake of posterity.
Tim Plains Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Me? I have no clue. It's much lighter than the Rosewood boards on all my other Gibsons. I think the board on your 12-string looks much lighter in that photo because the flash hit it dead on. The colour of rosewood can really vary. I played three 2009 '59 reissues and the board on one of them was the whitest rosewood I have ever seen. On a side note, wow do you like that a Custom Shop SG to the right of it? Looks killer!
vourot Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Thats a great story and a cool guitar.Thanks for telling it again !
Murph Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Thanks for sharing Neo. I knew from before you were banned your sig made that claim, but never really thought much about it. Murph.
NeoConMan Posted March 9, 2009 Author Posted March 9, 2009 The colour of rosewood can really vary. Well' date=' it really is considerably lighter than the others. The picture magnifies the difference some, but it's there. On a side note' date=' wow do you like that a Custom Shop SG to the right of it?[/quote']Not Custom Shop either. That's a 2006 SG 61 with a Maestro from the factory. Gibson built a run of 48 of them, my dealer got four. I couldn't resist.... Yes I love it, and I'm not really an SG guy! It's the ultimate SG in my opinion.
renin74 Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 Neo, i got the other 61 reissue from 2006 from Bizarre, will never sell it, talk about collectible, only 39 made. do you know the other 2 people who got one from Bizarre? i like it better than the custom shop sg standard with lyre vibrola, too much vos....
Dynadude Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 Man! That is unique. How much do you have it insured for?
NeoConMan Posted March 9, 2009 Author Posted March 9, 2009 Along with all my other gear, it's insured for alot. That's a last resort though, I'm more proactive with security at the Compound. You'd be better off trying to get into Ft. Knox. :-) Neo' date=' i got the other 61 reissue from 2006 from Bizarre, will never sell it, talk about collectible, only 39 made. do you know the other 2 people who got one from Bizarre? i like it better than the custom shop sg standard with lyre vibrola, too much vos....[/quote']I agree. I'm really not a VOS cosmetics fan. 39? I thought it was 48. Anyhow, it was a limited run for sure. We had a thread going on this in 2007, accounted for most of them via serial numbers. I know for a fact that one left Bizarre and went to Pennsylvania, I believe it was the last of the 4 Bizarre had. A guy in the forum bought it because of the thread. He eventually sold it, so I don't know where it went. The fourth one sold locally here in Phoenix, I don't recall who the guy was for sure but I have a hunch or two. Was it that young guy named David? You know the one, real skinny, dark hair, kinda quiet, owns nearly 100 guitars. Have you seen him down there?
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