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Should the U.S. Government Militarize the Southern Border?


Californiaman

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En light of the escalating drug war going on in Mexico, Washington is beginning to debate the issue of sending the military to the southern border. In Texas this week a known illegal alien drug runner with ties to one of Mexico's biggest drug cartels, shot a Houston Police officer in the face when they tried to apprehend him. It turns out his wife, also in the U.S. illegally, is the sister of one of Mexico's biggest drug dealers.

But do we really need our military patrolling the southern boarder?

I say we don't need to militarize the border, but should continue to ramp up our intelligence on who these dealers are and where they're located and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law.

What do you think?

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If Americans did not want those drugs so badly there would not be drug wars. Or just decriminalize them. As long as thers is big profits in drugs there will be those willing to do anything for profit. It's greed, not drugs. Putting troops or more police at the border will only ramp up the other side.

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We need to use Embargo and Trade Sanctions to force the Mexican Government into taking action against the Cartels. If we jump straight to Military action we instantly put the Mexican Government in a Possition of Spite. They either have to side with us out of Fear, or the Cartels out of Fear. However if we tell them we won't dock our ships in any port north of Veracruz because your gang problem is to bad for a civilized nation to trade in those regions, We'll pressure them into policing their own Drug Problem.

 

Then tighten the boarder control going into Mexico, so US tourism will drop in the Northern Regions. Then threaten to make it country wide if the problem doesn't subside.

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If Americans did not want those drugs so badly there would not be drug wars. Or just decriminalize them. As long as thers is big profits in drugs there will be those willing to do anything for profit. It's greed' date=' not drugs. Putting troops or more police at the border will only ramp up the other side.[/quote']

 

Are you making an argument for the legalization of drugs? That's a legitimate point and one worthy of debate.

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We need to use Embargo and Trade Sanctions to force the Mexican Government into taking action against the Cartels. If we jump straight to Military action we instantly put the Mexican Government in a Possition of Spite. They either have to side with us out of Fear' date=' or the Cartels out of Fear. However if we tell them we won't dock our ships in any port north of Veracruz because your gang problem is to bad for a civilized nation to trade in those regions, We'll pressure them into policing their own Drug Problem.

 

Then tighten the boarder control going into Mexico, so US tourism will drop in the Northern Regions. Then threaten to make it country wide if the problem doesn't subside.[/quote']

 

I think this is also a good point. If we send the military to the border with no actions to the Mexican government then they would look at it like a cost savings. They might think, why should we spend any money or use resources to fight the drug wars when the U.S. will do it for us. That's not to say; however, that we shouldn't do both things.

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Legalization of drugs is a very complicated issue, too complicated for a guitar players forum. Asw far as sanctions against Mexico, I think Mexico has a beef with the US, after all, we are the reason these drug cartels are in operation on their border with us.

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Legalize, grade and tax all recreational drugs. Put the drug cartels out of business, make the drugs "safer" and rake in some money to offset all these bailouts. IMO, pot, coke, speed, you-name-it is no different than alcohol and history has proven that prohibition does nothing except put people in jail (costs taxpayer money) and causes loss of tax revenue. If people want to get wasted, they're going to get wasted one way or another.

 

On a timely related note:

The Associated Press: Fugitive drug lord makes Forbes' billionaire list

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For those that don't give a rat's patoot about the border, you're a sorry bunch of cowards, that will turn your backs on the people who gave their lives to assure your freedom and the sovereignty of this country.

 

I'm ashamed of every freakin' one of you. Please don't ever dare to claim to be an American ever again, because you definitely are not. You're worthless.

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For those that don't give a rat's patoot about the border' date=' you're a sorry bunch of cowards, that will turn your backs on the people who gave their lives to assure your freedom and the sovereignty of this country.

 

I'm ashamed of every freakin' one of you. Please don't ever dare to claim to be an American ever again, because you definitely are not. You're worthless.[/quote']

 

Bullshit. You'd rather throw tax money/military (government) at what is a social problem. That's the Democrat way of doing things. Want freedom? Let people do what they want as long as they're not hurting anyone but themselves. In the mean time, let the Mexicans who want to work the jobs that our fatassed kids don't want to do come over, gain citizenship and pay taxes.

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I think this is also a good point. If we send the military to the border with no actions to the Mexican government then they would look at it like a cost savings. They might think' date=' why should we spend any money or use resources to fight the drug wars when the U.S. will do it for us. That's not to say; however, that we shouldn't do both things.[/quote']

Doing both would be using two Stones to kill one Bird. If we can threaten troops on the border, then deploy them if sactions don't work, it'll look better to any nation that might want to protect poor little Mexico. Also it kinda sounds like a job for the National Guard, and they're a little thin right now. I could be wrong about that, maybe there a Tom Clancy-esque forumite out there that knows better about which branch of the military would be deployed to protect the border from a Guerilla Invasion.

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Bullshit. You'd rather throw tax money/military (government) at what is a social problem. That's the Democrat way of doing things. Want freedom? Let people do what they want as long as they're not hurting anyone but themselves. In the mean time' date=' let the Mexicans who want to work the jobs that our fatas[b'][/b]sed kids don't want to do come over, gain citizenship and pay taxes.

 

 

I normally agree with you Rich, but you've got your head up your butt on this one.

 

In fact, this whole pansy *** bunch on this board are startin' to wear on my nerves. I think you creeps can get along without my input on crap like this.

 

Half of you are too chicken **** to fight for your rights or your country, and the other half wants to legalise drugs, so all our kids can grow up without any sense of decency or responsibility.

 

Have at it. I'l do my best to make sure that neither group has their way. Cool?

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Doing both would be using two Stones to kill one Bird. If we can threaten troops on the border' date=' then deploy them if sactions don't work, it'll look better to any nation that might want to protect poor little Mexico. Also it kinda sounds like a job for the National Guard, and they're a little thin right now. I could be wrong about that, maybe there a Tom Clancy-esque forumite out there that knows better about which branch of the military would be deployed to protect the border from a Guerilla Invasion.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I was thinking National Guard. Good points.

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I normally agree with you Rich' date=' but you've got your head up your butt on this one.

 

In fact, this whole pansy *** bunch on this board are startin' to wear on my nerves. I think you creeps can get along without my input on crap like this.

 

Half of you are too chicken **** to fight for your rights or your country, and the other half wants to legalise drugs, so all our kids can grow up without any sense of decency or responsibility.

 

Have at it. I'l do my best to make sure that neither group has their way. Cool?[/quote']

 

Of course we're cool. [-o<

 

This is simple economics. The war on drugs has been going on for decades and all it's created is billionaires in Mexico. People want to get high whether you or I like it or not and they're going to find a way to do it one way or another. If you put the Mexican drug cartels out of business, somebody else will pick it whether it be drug lords in another country or gangs right here in our own country.

 

Rather than wasting tons of money trying to fight the Mexican drug cartels, why not hit them where it hurts most - in their pocketbooks? Legalize it and let the government create standards and tax it as much as they can while still undercutting the dealers. It's really no different than guns; I'm a strong believer in the right to bear arms and believe that if you make guns illegal, the only people who will have them are people who use them to commit crimes or those who buy them illegally and get locked up for it.

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This is a complex problem.

 

Obviously demand for drugs from the US is what feeds the Cartels. The Mexican government has busted a few big heads over the years, truly dangerous people. When is the last time you heard about a big fish being caught in the US? really, can anyone cite a BIG drug bust and capture of a narco?

 

Demand is the issue with illegal immigration as well, I see a lot of this guys busting their backs on tough jobs. If the US does not want them here how do they obtain employment?. I mean some of these guys I have met do not speak a lick of English yet they get a job and they do it well and without complaints.

 

I have asked a few contractors, they say they know very well these guys are illegal but they show up everyday and work as if it was their own business.

 

You can play the victim role all you want and you personally maybe the person buying illegal drugs or hiring illegal aliens but some of your fellow Americans are. Alot of them aparently.

 

There ain't no glory behind all this. It is simple economics, demand, supply and money.

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We need to use Embargo and Trade Sanctions to force the Mexican Government into taking action against the Cartels. If we jump straight to Military action we instantly put the Mexican Government in a Possition of Spite. They either have to side with us out of Fear' date=' or the Cartels out of Fear. However if we tell them we won't dock our ships in any port north of Veracruz because your gang problem is to bad for a civilized nation to trade in those regions, We'll pressure them into policing their own Drug Problem.

 

Then tighten the boarder control going into Mexico, so US tourism will drop in the Northern Regions. Then threaten to make it country wide if the problem doesn't subside.[/quote']

 

I agree with you. Sanctions and an embargo are essential to sending a strong message. Furthermore, if the U.S. does not allow our citizens to travel south of the border it will also have a strong effect on the Mexican economy.

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I say put troops on the border, finish the fence and protect our borders against drug runners and illegal immigration. I also aggree in principal with Rich. We learned, or should have learned from prohibition, that you can't stop people from using drugs (alcohol included). Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking, it just strengthened organized crime and made the Kennedy familiy rich (which led to Teddy Kennedy becoming a Senator). Keeping all drugs illegal has created the trouble we see now on the border and made one of the cartel leaders one of the richest people in the world (his son will probably grow up to be a democratic senator too).

 

I don't think that we should legalize speed, coke or opiates...they are too addictive and dangerous. But the "war on drugs" as we've been waging it is a failure. Shouldn't we at least protect the border until we figure out what the right policy on drugs should be?

 

Dynadude, I'm not gay, or a draft dodger or a junkie.

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I agree with you. Sanctions and an embargo are essential to sending a strong message. Furthermore' date=' if the U.S. does not allow our citizens to travel south of the border it will also have a strong effect on the Mexican economy.[/quote']

 

I don't agree. Mexico is not exactly a rich country so I don't know what the U.S. expects them to do about it all, at least on the scale that would make any attack on the cartels effective.

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Stiffhand,

you make several good points.=P~

Economics, supply and demand, illegal importation of drugs and illegal aliens are all at the root of the problem.

You should know that the U.S. military intelligence (Oxymoron) has been assisting the Mexican government for some time now to locate the heads of the cartels. We know who they are and where they are. Mexico does the dirty work of rooting them out.

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Sorry man but you guys are way off with the embargo thing. And I mean way off.

 

Here is a bit. The biggest drug lord in Mexico offered the Mexican Federal Government to pay for the entire National Debt if he was left alone by the authorities. The Government said no.

 

By some of the comments in here I can tell some of you really don't know who the US is dealing.

 

Like KSG said the richest man in the world is a Mexican war lord. I do not recall his name, I think Angel something.

 

If you saw the pictures of the people the mafia kills you would see the seriousness of this problem.

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This is a complex problem.

 

NO IT'S NOT!!!

 

We can secure EVERY border in the world except our own? Get the fxck outta here....

 

I spent 15 years in Texas' date=' going on 10 in Arizona.

I see the crime first hand. I see them pull bodies out of burned cars, out of shallow graves in the desert.

I see the shootouts on I-10.

I see the drop houses, the forclosed houses with squatters in them, the illegals by the dozens.

 

[b']Separate the problems into what they really are![/b]

 

Close the border with a fence, wall, moat with alligators, landmines, barbed wire, machine guns, I don't care.

Wanna come in the country?

Do it legally at at port of entry.

 

I don't mind Latino 'visitors' as long as they sign the fxcking guest book when they come in and leave as promised.

 

The Leftists, Liberals, and even some of the Catholic Church here do everything they can to entice them across the border and hundreds die in the desert every year. Then it's OUR fault?

 

 

 

They've spent billions on 'securing' the border to demonstrate how much they've done.

"See how much money we've spent?" is not the same as "See what a difference our efforts make?"

We piss away hundreds of millions of dollars every year (just like the War on Drugs) while handicapping those doing the job to limit their true effectiveness.

 

Few in gov't will actually take the stand and FORCE the issue to make border crossings all but impossible.

Make it so hard that most will give up, then you're left with the hard core few. Arrest them, hold them on any charges you can think of involving violatating the soveriegn border of another nation, and when you know who they are put them to work buildng the Wall Of America for a token wage of say $1 a day.

If they're working for the Big Mean Scary Drug Lords and want to fight, kill every m@therfxcking one of them.

TAKE NO PRISONERS!

 

When Mexico decides they want them back, then FLY THEM, at the expense of their government, to their capitol city.

Let THEIR gov't deal with them from that point on.

 

Don't think that border can be closed?

You haven't given me a chance to do it, and I guarantee FEWER people will die from Mexico and Central America.

 

I'll give you an excellent example of a country that patrols its southern border with great effectiveness.

Mexico.

Try getting out of Guatemala by sneaking into Mexico, you'll encounter THEIR MILITARY.

Seems Mexico doesn't want the added burden of poor people from other nations violating THEIR border.

 

If the Federales don't kill you, then it's off to prison.

 

That's if you're lucky, because Mexicans roam the border looking for "undocumented migrants" who are carrying money and food. Get caught by those thugs, and your family will never hear from you again.

 

 

THE BORDER IS NOT THAT HARD TO FIX IF YOU HAVE A BRAIN OR SOME BALLS. Either one will work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you wanna move on to a separate issue of drug, illegal workers and such?

Here's where it gets VERY simple.

Arrest them however you can, use tax charges like the gangsters faced in the 1920's if you have to.

Illegally in the country?

Seize all their assets, bank accounts, cars, houses just like any other criminal would face.

 

Kids born here in the States?

Send them home with their mothers, or fly them to Mexico City and let THEM place them in an orphanage.

American couples here could adopt them just like they normally do.

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I say put troops on the border' date=' finish the fence and protect our borders against drug runners and illegal immigration. I also agree in principal with Rich. We learned, or should have learned from prohibition, that you can't stop people from using drugs (alcohol included). Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking, it just strengthened organized crime...

 

I don't think that we should legalize speed, coke or opiates...they are too addictive and dangerous. But the "war on drugs" as we've been waging it is a failure. Shouldn't we at least protect the border until we figure out what the right policy on drugs should be?[/quote']

 

Yes, securing the boarder is probably the No.1 thing we need to do. Then and only then, can we as a country begin to tackle the debate of legalizing drugs. I'm certainly not for the legalization of speed, coke or opiates either.

 

Maybe we should adopt a policy like that of Singapore's, where possession results in execution. They don't have a drug problem, do they?

 

Oh, take it easy, take it easy boys, don't get your boxers in a bunch. I'm only kidding about the Singapore part. Executing drug dealers and users is not the solution. It costs more to execute someone in the United States than it does to imprison them for life.

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What exactly do we embargo? Mexico's largest cash streams are the money that illegals send home from the US and the money that us and the canadians pay for drugs. We build chevrolets and lot's of other things in Mexico and the majority of Mexican citizens are not involved in the drug trade, they are just working people...do we want to punish them? We also get a significant amount of our oil from Mexico, and since the libs won't let us drill for our own, do we really want a trade war with Mexico?

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