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IanHenry

Small Amp Choice

Which Small Amp?  

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  1. 1. Which Small Amp?

    • Laney Cub 10
      2
    • Marshall Origin 5
      2
    • Vox AC4C1-112
      8


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The new Tone Master amps are digital reproductions of the originals.  A digital solid state Twin and Deluxe.  Half the weight, that makes them interesting for sure.

rct

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3 hours ago, rct said:

The new Tone Master amps are digital reproductions of the originals.  A digital solid state Twin and Deluxe.  Half the weight, that makes them interesting for sure.

rct

So the Tone Master Twin Reverb has a 200 watt digital power amp  switchable from 85 watts down to 1 watt.

The Tone Master Deluxe Reverb has a 100 watt digital power amp switchable from 22 watts down to 0.2 watt.

Delivered to Jensen N-12K speakers with lightweight neodymium magnets..

Seems like it takes a lot of power to reproduce the sound of a digitally sampled vintage tube amp..

Tone_Master_Amps_Highlights_Twin_Reverb_  Tone_Master_Amps_Highlights_Twin_Reverb_

Tone_Master_Amps_Highlights_Deluxe_Rever  Tone_Master_Amps_Highlights_Deluxe_Rever

Edited by mihcmac
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As has always been the case with SS Amps (or whatever you want to call them) vs. Tube Amps... OffsetGuitarForum has had long discussions on these..  Some think they're great some don't. 

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The early SS amps were producing their own SS sound which created unharmonic distortion, where a tube amp creates harmonic distortion through sympathetic vibration of the chassis and tubes. The Tone Master, like playing a CD on a stereo, would be reproducing a digitally sampled tube sound while using algorithms to interpret drive and other things.

Some of the first digital recordings started around 64bit but clipped the analog signal when compared to tape. So 64 went to 128 to 256 an so on until enough head room was reached to make clipping imperceptible, but some people with the ear for it , still prefer analog recording on tape.

Perhaps this could provide a tube sound free of the snap, crackle and pop of old tubes... I hope its better than my last modeling amp..

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Any of the 3 amps mentioned is good, I think you'd have to A/B for the sound you prefer.

I know digital modelling has come on lots (I have a Roland Micro-Cube, you might want to check the Cube series out) but I still prefer valves for a guitar signal.

Vibro-Champ.jpg

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Everyone  seems to love their Champs..

Ian, being in the UK, went with a tube powered Cornell Traveller 5.

The Tone Master amps are something completely different, just a processor producing a digital model of a Twin or Deluxe. They may be junk, but I do have local Fender dealer that if one comes in I will try it. But a light weight version of a Deluxe might be interesting, mine weighs a ton.

I run on battery power a lot of the time of the time using my Micro Cubes.. 

Edited by mihcmac

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21 hours ago, jdgm said:

Any of the 3 amps mentioned is good, I think you'd have to A/B for the sound you prefer.

I know digital modelling has come on lots (I have a Roland Micro-Cube, you might want to check the Cube series out) but I still prefer valves for a guitar signal.

Vibro-Champ.jpg

1973/1974?

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3 hours ago, badbluesplayer said:

1973/1974?

 

I should know, I did look it up. 

Got to be about then...can't get Vibrochamp.org at the moment.  

Let me ask you BTW - is there any way I can get more bass out of it? I changed the speaker which helped.

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18 hours ago, jdgm said:

 

I should know, I did look it up. 

Got to be about then...can't get Vibrochamp.org at the moment.  

Let me ask you BTW - is there any way I can get more bass out of it? I changed the speaker which helped.

Maybe an EQ Pedal? Some Cut on Mids & Highs. Some Boost on Bass... 

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21 hours ago, jdgm said:

I should know, I did look it up. 

Got to be about then...can't get Vibrochamp.org at the moment.  

Let me ask you BTW - is there any way I can get more bass out of it? I changed the speaker which helped.

You might try setting the Bass to 10 and treble to 0 and then gradually increase the treble to get some clarity..

3 hours ago, Larsongs said:

Maybe an EQ Pedal? Some Cut on Mids & Highs. Some Boost on Bass... 

Good idea or even any pedal with some tone control might help..

Edited by mihcmac
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3 hours ago, mihcmac said:

You might try setting the Bass to 10 and treble to 0 and then gradually increase the treble to get some clarity..

Good idea or even any pedal with some tone control might help..

 

4 hours ago, Larsongs said:

Maybe an EQ Pedal? Some Cut on Mids & Highs. Some Boost on Bass... 

 

Yes the Boss GE-7 does a very good job [thumbup]  I also use a reverb pedal on a spring setting....I always wanted a Princeton, or the Rivera-designed Champ II which is "extremely louder". 

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my Vibrochamp. [love]

I know some people manage to fit in a 10" speaker but I think you have to enlarge the cut-out....when you compare it to a modern small amp, they seem to have (proportionately) a lot more bass.

I wondered if there were any wiring mods; I did have it wired "blackface" but eventually got it put back to stock.

Wasn't Randall Smith's original Boogie a modded Fender Champ with a larger speaker which he showed to Santana, who said "This thing really boogies" or some such. ....? :-k

 

Small amps - general observation; mass-produced quality is high but you do get what you pay for.   There has been a move back to simplicity;  and  digital modelling continues to evolve and improve.  

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If your speaker has plug on connectors you could try connecting a low watt 10" instrument speaker with some alligator clip jumpers to see what it sounds like, or connect to a small cabinet, but have your internal speaker unplugged while testing. I think Champs use 4 ohms it may be marked on the back of your speaker.. I have seen people install slightly larger speakers without enlarging the hole, just centering on the hole as close as possible, this way would help prevent undo damage to your classic amp.. A good part of the sound comes out the back anyway.. You may get more bottom out of a 10 but using more power it may not be quite as loud.

or

Try an upgraded 8" with more bottom end..

or

How to improve your amps tone with preamp tube swaps.... on Reverb

Edited by mihcmac

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14 hours ago, jdgm said:

 

 

Yes the Boss GE-7 does a very good job [thumbup]  I also use a reverb pedal on a spring setting....I always wanted a Princeton, or the Rivera-designed Champ II which is "extremely louder". 

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my Vibrochamp. [love]

I know some people manage to fit in a 10" speaker but I think you have to enlarge the cut-out....when you compare it to a modern small amp, they seem to have (proportionately) a lot more bass.

I wondered if there were any wiring mods; I did have it wired "blackface" but eventually got it put back to stock.

Wasn't Randall Smith's original Boogie a modded Fender Champ with a larger speaker which he showed to Santana, who said "This thing really boogies" or some such. ....? :-k

 

Small amps - general observation; mass-produced quality is high but you do get what you pay for.   There has been a move back to simplicity;  and  digital modelling continues to evolve and improve.  

I think Mesa Boogie started modding Princetons or Princeton Reverbs.  Anyway, if you want more bass, try increasing the value of the coupling cap out of the second gain stage.  In the pic below, that's the 0.02 uf cap on the board where the wire from pin 6 of the tube way over on the right hits the board - the wire that says 200v on it - about 1/3 of the way over from the right hand side of the board.  That's the cap that runs between where the 100k resistor splits off and where the wire labeled "X" splits off.  Try raising the value of that cap to 0.047, or just tack on another 0.022 cap in parallel with the existing 0.022 (to raise the effective value to 0.044), and see if that helps.  That will deliver more low end to the power tube.  You might be able to raise it all the way to 0.1, but it might start farting out.  👍

champ_vibro_aa764_layout.gif

Edited by badbluesplayer
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On November 8, 2019 at 10:12 AM, mihcmac said:

You might try setting the Bass to 10 and treble to 0 and then gradually increase the treble to get some clarity..

Good idea or even any pedal with some tone control might help..

 

Yes, most important, take your time dialing in the Volume, Bass & Treble Settings on your Amp with your Guitar... You gotta find the Sweet Spot....

Also, Have you tried any other Tubes than the Stock ones that came with the Amp? Many times with quality Tubes all your problems disappear..

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