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Sdahe

A string intonation - New 2019 Les Paul 50's

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Hello,

I recently bought a new 2019 Gibson Les Paul Standard 50's and it seems the A string is not perfectly intonated. The saddle is already all the way to one of the sides. I can't reverse the saddle because the string will be misaligned. Is not super bad or anything.. it's just that it's not intonated perfectly. I know that tele's with the 3 saddle bridle also have intonation problems and you never get it perfect so Im guessing that maybe Les Pauls are the same?...

Thanks!!!

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17 minutes ago, Sdahe said:

Hello,

I recently bought a new 2019 Gibson Les Paul Standard 50's and it seems the A string is not perfectly intonated. The saddle is already all the way to one of the sides. I can't reverse the saddle because the string will be misaligned. Is not super bad or anything.. it's just that it's not intonated perfectly. I know that tele's with the 3 saddle bridle also have intonation problems and you never get it perfect so Im guessing that maybe Les Pauls are the same?...

Thanks!!!

If you recently bought it, I would return it if it bothers you.  Nothing wrong with that IMHO.  You bought an expensive guitar and should get something like this working as you would expect.  No other solution to this than to return, or try flipping the saddle for the A string and re-align the string spacing at the bridge - have two slots in saddle.  If you can live with it, then that's your call, but not too many options here.  If it were me and it bothered me enough to write something about it here, I'd turn it in.  Too much money to spend to be unhappy about something like this.  I've turned in Gibsons for lesser issues than what you're dealing with.  Good luck and best wishes whatever you choose to do here. 

Edited by NighthawkChris
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Sorry, I don't understand why you can't flip the saddle to give more leeway in adjusting the intonation?  My experience with LPs is that the groove in the saddle is pretty much in the middle of the saddle so flipping it shouldn't bring it off center.  But I'll take your word for it that it won't work.  So maybe just buy a new saddle without a groove in it (StewMac) and install it and file a groove where you need it.

This has to be a problem easily remedied as a $2500 guitar has to intonate properly.

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are you trying to set intonation with new strings?  all strings should be able to be set for proper intonation, it's a basic setup detail that should always work.

Edited by kidblast

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21 minutes ago, kidblast said:

are you trying to set intonation with new strings?  all strings should be able to be set for proper intonation, it's a basic setup detail that should always work.

Yes they are new strings.

Its not that if extremely off.. its a bit off only. Im gonna record a video of it. Maybe Im been to perfectionist 

Edited by Sdahe

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2 hours ago, Sdahe said:

Yes they are new strings.

Its not that if extremely off.. its a bit off only. Im gonna record a video of it. Maybe Im been to perfectionist 

not really, it's one of the primary setup details.  I would be just as curious as to what was going in.  If the slot is in the middle of the saddle, you can flip it around.  a photo or two may help.

it's not likely but it is possible somehow the bridge got flipped?  just check to make sure the "Wider" slots are under the Bass strings, and the narrow ones under the the treble stings.

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2 hours ago, Sdahe said:

Yes they are new strings.

Its not that if extremely off.. its a bit off only. Im gonna record a video of it. Maybe Im been to perfectionist 

Apologize in advance if you are aware of these things I am about to discuss here, but have to ask about simple things first. 

You haven't by chance changed the string gauge?  Small thing to ask here I know, but per Sweetwater's specs for these 50s Collection guitars, they are strung up with 10-46.  Make sure you give them a good stretch too - more so on the wound strings and don't tug too  hard on solid core strings as these aren't really too friendly with stretching IMEs. 

Another thing is when you check intonation, make sure that you are not fretting too firmly to the point where you are actually sharpening the note. 

I suppose in the end if you're happy with what this LP can do - like make octaves with A string and not hearing a whole lot of dissonance up on higher frets - then I'm all for it.  I will say that perfect intonation on any guitar is somewhat of a myth, but you should be able to get fairly precise results.  What about string height, neck relief??? 

Here's my setup routine:

  1. neck relief check
  2. string height, then relief afterwards.  Repeat as necessary to make sure string height and relief are where they need to be
  3. intonation last
  4. Possibly repeat previous steps to make sure relief is OK and string height isn't going out of whack.  Takes time...

I know it's a new guitar, but sometimes the "green" guitar's neck does some bending from factory to store to your house...  Hopefully when you get the neck relief right on, your string height falls in line, but wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't set up 100% to 5/64" on 6th string - 3/64" on 1st string.  And neck relief around 0.010" or so give or take a thousandth of an inch or two if need be. 

Again, sorry for basic setup explanation here...  Just trying to make sure all other things are right before doing the thing I do last on a setup. 

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1 hour ago, NighthawkChris said:

Apologize in advance if you are aware of these things I am about to discuss here, but have to ask about simple things first. 

You haven't by chance changed the string gauge?  Small thing to ask here I know, but per Sweetwater's specs for these 50s Collection guitars, they are strung up with 10-46.  Make sure you give them a good stretch too - more so on the wound strings and don't tug too  hard on solid core strings as these aren't really too friendly with stretching IMEs. 

Another thing is when you check intonation, make sure that you are not fretting too firmly to the point where you are actually sharpening the note. 

I suppose in the end if you're happy with what this LP can do - like make octaves with A string and not hearing a whole lot of dissonance up on higher frets - then I'm all for it.  I will say that perfect intonation on any guitar is somewhat of a myth, but you should be able to get fairly precise results.  What about string height, neck relief??? 

Here's my setup routine:

  1. neck relief check
  2. string height, then relief afterwards.  Repeat as necessary to make sure string height and relief are where they need to be
  3. intonation last
  4. Possibly repeat previous steps to make sure relief is OK and string height isn't going out of whack.  Takes time...

I know it's a new guitar, but sometimes the "green" guitar's neck does some bending from factory to store to your house...  Hopefully when you get the neck relief right on, your string height falls in line, but wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't set up 100% to 5/64" on 6th string - 3/64" on 1st string.  And neck relief around 0.010" or so give or take a thousandth of an inch or two if need be. 

Again, sorry for basic setup explanation here...  Just trying to make sure all other things are right before doing the thing I do last on a setup. 

Well the guitar did came with a little relief in the neck and I've been adjusting it to make it straight. The guitar came with 10's and the store tech put new 10's before a took it home. Im' gonna give the strings a bit of a stretch and see. Another thing is that sometimes you can get a bad string from a fresh pack. You'll never know. Anyway... like I said. It's not like is way off... it's just not exactly at the middle of the note in the tuner. It's a few millimeters to the left but the tuner says.. InTune. Hahaha.. That's why I said I might be to much of a perfectionist.

Im including a photo so you can see that the A saddle is not channeled in the middle..

IMG-0527.jpg

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Like I said... I might be a little perfectionist.  Since it's not right on the middle I might think it's a bit off.

 Here is a screenshot of my tuner when I press on the A string at the 12th fret.  

tuner.jpg

Edited by Sdahe

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That is an awesome top, congrats on the new Lester!!

Just for giggles, try a different tuner and see what you get. I had a similar issue and at the end, the problem was with the tuner. 

Edited by Big Bill
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That is a beautiful Les Paul..

I agree with Bill 100%,, make sure it's not the tuner.  I actually don't trust any tuner for intonation but my Peterson strobe.  Accurate to a gnats hair.  and if you seen any gnats, you know how small those can be.. [woot]

 

Edited by kidblast
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Another thing I wanted to mention is the pickup height...  If this is too close to the string, it will actually detune the string a bit and could also make sound like crap, but make sure that this is not too close to the string when setting intonation.  Very important... 

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Well no tension spring in saddles, so you don't have that to contend with 

If flip it, just start a new slot in the "right" spot

But it seems strange you A saddle is all the way forward 

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1 hour ago, Eracer_Team said:

Well no tension spring in saddles, so you don't have that to contend with 

If flip it, just start a new slot in the "right" spot

But it seems strange you A saddle is all the way forward 

Did you saw the images of the tuner?

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If the guitar is brand new, my suggestion is to play the hell out of it.

Sometimes new guitars need to "work in" a bit. I've seen many posts by players who bought

a brand new guitar and immediately started finding problems with it. Gibson has a warranty on

their products, check how long that warranty is, and play the hell out of this guitar for

half that time.

Then change the strings, re-do the setup and see where you are.

>Also, +1 on the idea that your new Gibson might be fine, and your tuner might

be reading slightly off.  Personally I would trust Gibson more than I would trust

some tuners.  I have three Gibsons, and have had great experience with all of them

so I'm no Gibson basher.

Good luck with this, and good playing, and excellent tone for you.

 

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2 hours ago, Sdahe said:

Did you saw the images of the tuner?

 

Yes 

Looks like it's like 1 to 2 cents out.

But looks like you're using an app on a phone.

Get a real tuner

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1 hour ago, Eracer_Team said:

 

Yes 

Looks like it's like 1 to 2 cents out.

But looks like you're using an app on a phone.

Get a real tuner

Im using this tuner because its very accurate. But I’ll check with other tuners.

Any recommendation on real tuners?

Edited by Sdahe

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Personally... - I would not trust a smart phone app to intonate a guitar.

suggestions for tuners depends on what you want to invest.

Peterson makes some of the most accurate standalone and headstock mountable tuners on the market.   But they aint cheap.

Also the TC Electronics PolyTune, or Boss TU3 would do the job.

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Is it the angle of the picture, my old eyes, or does that bridge look offset to the bass side by some teeny Euro hectameters or something?

rct

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1 hour ago, rct said:

Is it the angle of the picture, my old eyes, or does that bridge look offset to the bass side by some teeny Euro hectameters or something?

rct

Hahahhaha.. that’s funny

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