Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

Upcoming NUGD


MorrisrownSal

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Murph said:

 

I prefer 80/20's on my Rosewood J-45 AND my walnut J-15. 

I used Elixirs back when I used a thinner pick, but hate the muffled sound of them now that I'm using Bluechip and Wegens.

You may have a point.

I wasn't making any sort of point, rather just curious. I just got my first Rosewood B&S'ed guitar a couple weeks ago (D-41) and noticed early on that changing picks made even bigger differences than I was used to with my current guitars. I've actually been thinking of trying the Bluechip and/or Wegens. Again, curiosity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, philfish said:

I have the same model, vintage 2011. It's a great sounding guitar, and the looks well you know it's a Gibson Burst. I have D'Addorio nickel bronze 12s on it now, after seeing a post by Sal about them being similar to titaniums that had been on it. It sounds so good I'm having a hard time convincing my self to change them.

Looking forward to your thoughts when it's in your hands 

I put those on my SJ-200 Standard a couple months back. I like them quite a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, bobouz said:

That might be a bit of an optical illusion.  I have a 2002 J-45 Rosewood, as well as belly-up Montana bridges on other instruments from 2007, 2012, 2013, and 2015.  My quickie eyeball test says they're all the same.  The one difference is that the pearl dots are set a bit lower on the 2002.

Back in the '70s, I used to worry quite a bit about that lack of glue space on belly-up bridges.  To date, I've never had a lifting issue with any Montana belly-up bridge - but I do think it's important to make sure the ball of each string is properly seated on the bridgeplate after installation (I use an automotive inspection mirror & flashlight).

All of that said, in my experience the early 2000s were very good years for Gibson slope-shoulders.  Along with the J-45 Rosewood, I also had a J-50 and two WM-45s from that era.  All of them were tonally very nice, but this particular 2002 stands out for me in the dry & woody department.    

 

 

Sorry to hijack your thread, Sal.

At great expense to management, I have copied somehow to my Imgur, the J45 photo with the pins close to the edge as mentioned - what do you think?:

 

SUa60iTh.jpg

 

I prefer where the pins on my Dove are!

 

8zcyEi9h.jpg

 

BluesKing777.

 

Edited by BluesKing777
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

 

Sorry to hijack your thread, Sal.

At great expense to management, I have copied somehow to my Imgur, the J45 photo with the pins close to the edge as mentioned - what do you think?:

 

SUa60iTh.jpg

 

I prefer where the pins on my Dove are!

 

8zcyEi9h.jpg

 

BluesKing777.

 

I have one Gibson J-45  belly-up bridge with the pins almost as far back as the ones in your photo, and another (vintage) J-45 with the pins closer to the saddle. the only disadvantage of the pins being close to the back edge of the bridge is that it may give a lower string break angle at the saddle. It might also be dictated to some extent by the size and location of the bridgeplate.

My J-45 with the pins closer to the saddle has very small bridgeplate.

I'll have to dig out the J-45 drawings to see where they show the pins.

Edited by j45nick
additional info
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Here is a new Gibson J45 Vintage at the Acoustic Centre, Melbourne. It is close as well!

I have had 2 bridges split - my Blues King L-00 and my LG1...just opened up the case and there you go. Either way, this new Gibson in the link has been there since before Gibson went broke....someone needs to step up and put it out of it's misery.😎😎😎

It is a brave chappie to visit this shop, let me tell you. They have all the stuff (at twice the price!)!

https://www.acousticcentre.com.au/collections/gibson/products/gibson-j-45-vintage-sunburst-acoustic-guitar

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Edited by BluesKing777
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BK - Yes, that's the typical pin hole placement for the belly-up bridge.  In 1999, Montana's model lineup was revamped with an eye towards vintage classics and more accurate specs.  So from '99 forward, you will see this location on belly-up Montana bridges.

The one exception is Southern Jumbo models, which historically had the pin holes located further away from the bridge base (on vintage SJ versions with a  belly-up bridge).  The post-'99 Southern Jumbos I've seen accurately reflect this difference.

Again, I have not had an issue with any of the five Montana acoustics I own with this bridge pin location.  If the 2002 example you're considering is structurally stable at this time, it would be a pretty good indicator that with 17 years under it's belt, most likely it'll be just fine moving forward. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, j45nick said:

"Historical accuracy" and "vintage specs" for Gibson are moving targets. My 100% original "new" 1950 J-45 has the pins centered just under 3/8" (actually 9mm) forward of the back edge of the bridge.

Absolutely.  A lot depends on the era they might choose to use as a frame of reference, and even then, there will probably be some liberties taken.  In the case of this bridge pin placement, it goes back to at least 1957, as reflected in a Gruhn photo I’m looking at of a ‘57 J-185, and of course it was seen through much of the ‘60s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, j45nick said:

"Historical accuracy" and "vintage specs" for Gibson are moving targets. My 100% original "new" 1950 J-45 has the pins centered just under 3/8" (actually 9mm) forward of the back edge of the bridge.

 

Sorry again, Sal, for the hijackery, but pin placement may be important!

I was looking at an article(review) about another acoustic and the pins on both their products were in quite a way from the bridge edge, but get this.....then the saddles were almost touching the front edge! The Gibson placement is probably better with all the forces going towards the nut.

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In this photo of my J-45 TV (taken before I moved  the pickguard so that it did not cover up the rosette) you can see that the pin placement is very close to the edge  of the bridge. I actually did notice this when I first got the guitar. But it sounded so good to me  that I haven’t given this much thought at all until now. I realize that some might wish for a different configuration and can appreciate that. Fortunately I have had zero issues with the pin placement thus far.

What was more important to me is that this guitar had the tone that I craved.  At just under 4 lbs. there  is not much to it but what is there is just right as far as my preferences are concerned.

j45tv.jpg
 

I love the sound of a good J-45. A while back Murph observed that a good guitar doesn’t know what year it is. This pretty much extends to any number of other factors besides the age. You could also say that a good guitar as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts or in this case the placement of its bridge pins

Edited by Guth
fixed typo
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Me again!

What happened to Sal and his new guit?

Anyways, not to harp on and at an amount of time that is way larger than the photo is worth, copying to a file and then to another and then to Imgur - because the shop links all their photos in one weirdo 'stream'....here is a pic of their 2018 Gibson Southern Jumbo on sale.

Now, one look at the pic and the bridge pin plan discussed earlier has obviously changed quite drastically!

 

F53U4D1h.jpg

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

Now, one look at the pic and the bridge pin plan discussed earlier has obviously changed quite drastically!

The bridge design, shape, pin placement has long seemed to vary between the various  models and even between the various iterations of the same model. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Guth said:

The bridge design, shape, pin placement has long seemed to vary between the various  models and even between the various iterations of the same model. 

I just pulled out the semi-official J-45 plans from Stewmac. They show a 1942 bridge (rectangular), a 1950 bridge (belly-up, slot-through), and 1954 bridge (belly-up, drop-in). All have the pins at 3/16" centers (5mm) from the back edge.

I also re-checked my all-original 1950 J-45 (belly-up, slot-through), and the pins are at 3/8" (10mm). My other 1950 J-45 has a new bridge by Ross Teigen (belly-up, slot-through) with pins at 5/16" (8mm), but of course that bridge is a repro.

I then looked at photos from 1966  of that guitar's original bridge, and I would say the pins are much closer to 3/8 than 3/16". My two 1950's have FON's that probably date to within a few weeks of each other.

Let's face it: it's Gibson.

For the record, I don't think this pin placement matters much. Most of the "meat" of the bridge, and the gluing surface, is on the proper side of the pin holes from an engineering perspective.

Edited by j45nick
added additional thought
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, j45nick said:

I just pulled out the semi-official J-45 plans from Stewmac. They show a 1942 bridge (rectangular), a 1950 bridge (belly-up, slot-through), and 1954 bridge (belly-up, drop-in). All have the pins at 3/16" centers (5mm) from the back edge.

I also re-checked my all-original 1950 J-45 (belly-up, slot-through), and the pins are at 3/8" (10mm). My other 1950 J-45 has a new bridge by Ross Teigen (belly-up, slot-through) with pins at 5/16" (8mm), but of course that bridge is a repro.

I then looked at photos from 1966  of that guitar's original bridge, and I would say the pins are much closer to 3/8 than 3/16". My two 1950's have FON's that probably date to within a few weeks of each other.

Let's face it: it's Gibson.

 

48 minutes ago, j45nick said:

I just pulled out the semi-official J-45 plans from Stewmac. They show a 1942 bridge (rectangular), a 1950 bridge (belly-up, slot-through), and 1954 bridge (belly-up, drop-in). All have the pins at 3/16" centers (5mm) from the back edge.

I also re-checked my all-original 1950 J-45 (belly-up, slot-through), and the pins are at 3/8" (10mm). My other 1950 J-45 has a new bridge by Ross Teigen (belly-up, slot-through) with pins at 5/16" (8mm), but of course that bridge is a repro.

I then looked at photos from 1966  of that guitar's original bridge, and I would say the pins are much closer to 3/8 than 3/16". My two 1950's have FON's that probably date to within a few weeks of each other.

Let's face it: it's Gibson.

 

 

Thanks Nick for checking those, though I may be starting to drive you mad....😎😎😎

”But what do these guitars sound like at this shop, BK777?”...  I hear everyone ask.

Don’t know - it is the stupidest shop I have ever been in! Their online thing has the guitar photos all digitally joined together, but you can scroll through them and isolate something that catches your eye, but only one pic of the front! And then....you go there, walk in and the Gibson J45 is somewhere in there hanging on a wire from the ceiling with the current official shop count of 979 guitars of ALL shapes and size. After I asked to try some, the guy said to help myself and walked off. Gulp...me, Bigfoot O’Klutzo tangling with that forest of wires and guitars. Nope. So he got one I asked for down and left me to try it, but get this - there is absolutely no place anywhere, anyhow to sit. Nowhere. Good, so we gonna sit on the floor? And to get up again, lean on all those guitars and wires? What’s the old pawn shop saying? “Nice to touch, nice to hold, if you drop it, consider it sold”. This did go through my mind. All too hard....

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Anyways, not to harp on and at an amount of time that is way larger than the photo is worth, copying to a file and then to another and then to Imgur - because the shop links all their photos in one weirdo 'stream'....here is a pic of their 2018 Gibson Southern Jumbo on sale.

Now, one look at the pic and the bridge pin plan discussed earlier has obviously changed quite drastically!

 

F53U4D1h.jpg

 

 

BK - No, the "bridge pin plan" has not been changed.  If you go back and read my second most recent post (I guess our posts are no longer numbered in a given thread), I address the fact that the Southern Jumbo is the one exception to the rule (since the 1999 revamped lineup).  This is because Montana is staying true to the Kalamazoo belly-up bridge pin placement on Southern Jumbos.

Back in '99, I obtained a copy of the newly released & revamped Gibson Acoustic catalog (which I still have), and almost immediately noticed the difference in bridge pin placement on the Southern Jumbo (thanks to a rather healthy case of OCD).  The more centralized belly-up pin location occurs only on the Southern Jumbo, and this is consistent with every version I've come across since '99.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, bobouz said:

BK - No, the "bridge pin plan" has not been changed.  If you go back and read my second most recent post (I guess our posts are no longer numbered in a given thread), I address the fact that the Southern Jumbo is the one exception to the rule (since the 1999 revamped lineup).  This is because Montana is staying true to the Kalamazoo belly-up bridge pin placement on Southern Jumbos.

Back in '99, I obtained a copy of the newly released & revamped Gibson Acoustic catalog (which I still have), and almost immediately noticed the difference in bridge pin placement on the Southern Jumbo (thanks to a rather healthy case of OCD).  The more centralized belly-up pin location occurs only on the Southern Jumbo, and this is consistent with every version I've come across since '99.  

Except, of course, for the SJ's with a belly-down bridge (Martin configuration), which is common on vintage Banner SJ's.   My Fuller's Vintage 1943 SJ re-issue has the belly-down bridge, but I believe Fuller's did the specs on those runs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, j45nick said:

Except, of course, for the SJ's with a belly-down bridge (Martin configuration), which is common on vintage Banner SJ's.   My Fuller's Vintage 1943 SJ re-issue has the belly-down bridge, but I believe Fuller's did the specs on those runs.

Yes indeed.  I didn’t want to go off in too many directions, sticking only to the belly-up bridges under discussion.  The belly-down SJs were truly a whole different ballgame.  But if we continue to open the floodgates a little wider, here’s an additional tidbit of info re belly-ups:

On Montana’s current belly-up bridge (all except the SJ), the saddle resides pretty far north of the pins.  On the ‘57 J-185 (referenced in one of my above posts), the pin holes are at the extreme base of the bridge as in today’s Montana version, but the saddle is set much closer to the pins, increasing the break angle.  The current spacing gap seems to have more in common with the saddle location frequently seen in the ‘60s on adjustable bridges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, bobouz said:

 

On Montana’s current belly-up bridge (all except the SJ), the saddle resides pretty far north of the pins.  On the ‘57 J-185 (referenced in one of my above posts), the pin holes are at the extreme base of the bridge as in today’s Montana version, but the saddle is set much closer to the pins, increasing the break angle.  The current spacing gap seems to have more in common with the saddle location frequently seen in the ‘60s on adjustable bridges.

That's a good point. Provided the neck set was good enough--and at least some of those guitars with adj bridges had over-set necks--you could set the adj saddle up pretty high and still maintain a good break angle.

The one adj I have is from 1968, and that neck was quite over-set. The ends of the original rosewood adj saddle split from excess leverage on a cranked-up saddle. That bridge happens to be a belly-down, so direct comparisons do not necessarily apply.

Edited by j45nick
further information
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am adding a few pictures... and also giving my impressions of the guitar.

FVLLQ29l.jpg

zEuW6Xul.jpg

TVyiMxtl.jpg

biDbbf8l.jpg

 

Recent Gibsons that I had purchased  spec'd "mahogany"... and sometimes it actually was in fact sapele. This 2010 J45 TV is Honduran Mahogany and you can see the difference. I am not saying it makes a tonal difference mind you...

This is my first Adi-topped guitar. I used to have an SJTV and it was Sitka, and I had a 2007 J45-TV which was also Sitka.

This 2010 just sounds great. It is balanced, but it has volume, and just sounds old. The bass is not overpowering . It has mediums on it, and I am surprised that they feel good to me. I guess my finger tips have gotten tougher these past few years. Also the neck is substantial. I bought a 2013 J45 Standard from one of our forum members here a few years back, which I gifted to my gigging partner, and the necks are substantially different. The 2013 Modern Classic has a thin neck. Like a Taylor or the new Martins. This 2010 J-45 TV has a neck that has heft, roundness, and must account for some of this guitar's tone.

I bought the guitar from Taylor Mullins (Holter Pickguards), who has made me a few pickguards for other guitars in the past. He obviously made the one on this guitar too. It's not covering the rosette  :)

No strap buttons. No pickup. I am thinking it stays this way.

Anyone else own a J45-TV from the same time period? How would you describe the neck? Anyways... Thanks everyone for the many well wishes. Still dealing with some stuff around my parts. This guitar is sure a nice diversion.

 

Edited by Salfromchatham
added some more text
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...