Gibson J45 Legend...s?

[BluesKing777]

 

What is the difference between the first Gibson J45 Legend and a 2016 Gibson J45 1942 Legend?

Anyone know? 2016 at a shop near me....phew, heap big asking price but fat neck to attract a humble fingerpicker, depending on bridge spacing.....

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2019 by BluesKing777

[j45nick]

I don't know, but if you can get complete specs on the 2016, we may be able to figure it out.

I was just looking (online) at the COA from a 2007 J-45 Legend. The title of the cert is "The 1942 J-45 Legend Model", and the wording says it is an exact reproduction of Eldon Whitford's 1942 J-45. The specs say hide glue, etc.

This should be the J-45 Legend spec from day one. If the one you are looking at has the COA, check it out to see if it is the same.

The only two Legend models that I am aware of are the J-45 and the L-OO, both of which claim to be exact reproductions of specific guitars owned by named individuals. My L-OO Legend came with the COA, which is pretty essential for maintaining the provenance of the guitar when and if the time comes to sell it. That COA identifies the guitar as  "The 1937 L-OO Legend Model."

An intriguing aside is the fairly limited number of Kalamazoo Gal models made by Gibson in conjunction with John Thomas's project.  Those may or may not have specs as authentic as Legend models. I have  only seen a few of those on the market, and am not even sure which models were ultimately made.

Edited November 14, 2019 by j45nick
error corrected

[duluthdan]

The 2006-7 Legends have a true 1.75 inch nut width, and probably have Ren Ferguson’s hand carved braces. For a while some of the more recent Legends sported a 1.72 inch nut width, don’t know about the one you are looking at.   I’ve only played one, and it’s mine from Dec 06.  No doubt that 2016 is a great instrument too.  

[Dave F]

I have a 2010 model and the specs for it said the original equipment/saws were resurrected and even the saw patterns on the bracing was duplicated. It also has the aged looking binding and keys.  Except for the wear, it looks older than my vintage banner. All the newer models I've seen are bright looking.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Dave F

[BluesKing777]

 

Thanks Nick and Dan!

No specs on the ad, just a politician’s type fairy floss writeup. No nut specs.

Only thing to do is get in the car, take my measuring stick and have a look and play....except it is really expensive - like about 3 used J45 Standards worth or even 6 Matons. (pay day tomorrow and the washing machine has been trying to escape our laundry during spin cycle so no new Gibson I suppose but a repair bill or new washer!)

I was just curious as I thought the J45 Legends were a limited edition, one time only thing in the mid 2000s.

 

BluesKing777.

 

[j45nick]

53 minutes ago, Dave F said:

I have a 2010 model and the specs for it said the original equipment/saws were resurrected and even the saw patterns on the bracing was duplicated. It also has the aged looking binding and keys.  Except for the wear, it looks older than my vintage banner. All the newer models I've seen are bright looking.

 

 

Some Legend models had a VOS finish. My L-OO Legend had that finish, and it was marked down by the dealer selling it because he thought  the duller visual appearance of the VOS was actually polishing scratches.

[Dave F]

38 minutes ago, j45nick said:

Some Legend models had a VOS finish. My L-OO Legend had that finish, and it was marked down by the dealer selling it because he thought  the duller visual appearance of the VOS was actually polishing scratches.

Mine has the VOS finish

[thegreatgumbino]

Some of the 2016 Legend models were the Fuller's custom run with fully torrefied back and sides, which were amazing!

[BluesKing777]

 

Oh no!

There are more models? Fullers orders?

Did they have torrefied adi tops and 1,725 nuts in 1942?

I must admit if the shop had a L-00 Legend like Nick's, my preferred guitar size,  I would already have been there to at least try it out. But I have never seen one advertised here. As a matter of fact, there are no Gibson L-00 Legends advertised in the whole wide world - just checked! But I have a real 1937, so.... I better go play that!

I played the approx 2007 J45 Legend in a now defunct shop in a bout 2010 but the main impression I remember is the.....price! It was about 3x the J45 Standard then........................

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by BluesKing777

[Lars68]

I'm pretty sure that the process of applying the pickguard changed throughout the Legend life cycle. I have seen guards both applied on bare wood, as well as over the finish. The original guards in the 40's were applied to bare wood, and then the burst pattern was sprayed with the guard unmasked and in place, meaning the guard was sprayed too. The Legend in the picture above appears to have the guard placed on bare wood, but it was masked off when sprayed, so the burst pattern is interrupted by the shape of the guard. I have also seen Legends were the firestripe guard was placed with the guitar already sprayed, just like the with guards on modern Standard J-45s.

Neither of the two methods I have seen on Legends, replicates the original method, but I personally prefer the look of guards placed over an already sprayed top. Also it should help to avoid future pickguard cracks, when not glued directly to bare wood.

Here are examples I found of each type:

The modern way - Over finish

The old way on bare wood - but masked off and not sprayed over

Lars

Edited November 14, 2019 by Lars68

[zombywoof]

10 hours ago, Dave F said:

I have a 2010 model and the specs for it said the original equipment/saws were resurrected and even the saw patterns on the bracing was duplicated. It also has the aged looking binding and keys.  Except for the wear, it looks older than my vintage banner. All the newer models I've seen are bright looking.

 

 

 

Nice!  The saw marks on the bracing are plainly visible on my '42 J50.  Apparently Gibson did not think it worth their while to set one of their skilled people to work doing a final sanding..  The bracing carve though seems to have been all over the place on Banners.  That on my guitar is more of a long taper with only a slight uptick at the very end of the brace. I believe Heritage inherited some of the old belt driven machinery Gibson used and had moved down to the basement.

[jt]

21 minutes ago, zombywoof said:

 

.... I believe Heritage inherited some of the old belt driven machinery Gibson used and had moved down to the basement.

Heritage has all of the equipment that was at 225 Parsons Street when Gibson moved out in the mid-1980s. The oldest is a 1908 clamping device, still in use today. All of the equipment from the 1920s through the 1980s is still there. I spent last weekend in the building (a French TV crew met me there to record a short documentary about the Gals and me).

Renovation plans continue. Eventually, the old building will house the guitar manufacturing (now in a connected building), performance space, and museum.

I had the pleasure of playing for the TV crew my went-to-WWII SJ in the original building:

[jt]

11 hours ago, j45nick said:

...

An intriguing aside is the fairly limited number of Kalamazoo Gal models made by Gibson in conjunction with John Thomas's project.  Those may or may not have specs as authentic as Legend models. I have  only seen a few of those on the market, and am not even sure which models were ultimately made.

Gibson built replicas of my SJ, J-45, and LG-1 (which Gibson dubbed an LG-2). I have no idea of how many of each model Gibson built. Original specs called for a precise replication of WWII specs, including hide glue. I've no idea if the company followed through on that commitment, though.

[BluesKing777]

12 minutes ago, jt said:

Gibson built replicas of my SJ, J-45, and LG-1 (which Gibson dubbed an LG-2). I have no idea of how many of each model Gibson built. Original specs called for a precise replication of WWII specs, including hide glue. I've no idea if the company followed through on that commitment, though.

 

Hey, JT!

Maybe the new management would be interested in starting your project again?

That could get very interesting. How do you feel about that?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[j45nick]

A Legend or JT Kalamazoo Gals Special re-issue of an FON 910 SJ would be really nice. I'd be first in line for that one.

With two 1950 J-45's and a Fuller's 1943 SJ re-issue, I've probably got 'hog slope-J's covered for now.

A rosewood SJ is another matter altogether, however.  Ask Tom Barnwell.

Rosewood  SJ with terrified adi top and all hide glue construction? Count me in!

[BluesKing777]

 

Some selfish self analysis.........why did I ask about the various Legends?

Because for my fingerpicking, I like the larger neck and real estate. My 35 Black Special has a great neck and my Waterloos have copies of that era neck. And other guitars I have....

So I would like a J45 with 1 3/4” nut and large V neck with plenty of room......but I don’t really want a new piece of Adi to break in. And we can’t import vintage models easily anymore.

I may just settle for that worn 2002 J45 with the strange bridge pin arrangement while I try and sell a body part or two to get that Legend.

 

BluesKing777.

 

[jt]

1 hour ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Hey, JT!

Maybe the new management would be interested in starting your project again?

That could get very interesting. How do you feel about that?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

We've chatted and I've been favorably impressed by the new management. The company has a lot going on right now, but I'm confident that something will happen on this front.

In addition, Kalamazoo Gals appears destined for a dramatic adaptation for the silver screen. So, there will be opportunity for coordinated projects. 🙂

[Lars68]

55 minutes ago, jt said:

We've chatted and I've been favorably impressed by the new management. The company has a lot going on right now, but I'm confident that something will happen on this front.

In addition, Kalamazoo Gals appears destined for a dramatic adaptation for the silver screen. So, there will be opportunity for coordinated projects. 🙂

 

Great news on both accounts!

May I suggest Scarlet Johansen for doing the 1940's incarnation of one of the Gals

Lars

 

[jt]

30 minutes ago, Lars68 said:

 

Great news on both accounts!

May I suggest Scarlet Johansen for doing the 1940's incarnation of one of the Gals

Lars

 

🙂

The lead has been cast. A rather well known musician. You'll be pleased.

[Guth]

Greetings jt.

What a great surprise to check in and see your presence here. I am really glad to learn of your positive news and the potential for even more.

All the best,
Guth

[BluesKing777]

9 hours ago, jt said:

We've chatted and I've been favorably impressed by the new management. The company has a lot going on right now, but I'm confident that something will happen on this front.

In addition, Kalamazoo Gals appears destined for a dramatic adaptation for the silver screen. So, there will be opportunity for coordinated projects. 🙂

 

Fantastic news!

 

(a free JT LG1 RI with every DVD/Movie ticket for Gibson Acoustic Forum members?) 😎

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[jt]

20 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

(a free JT LG1 RI with every DVD/Movie ticket for Gibson Acoustic Forum members?) 😎

 

I like your thinking!

[Red 333]

20 hours ago, Dave F said:

Mine has the VOS finish

Mine, too.

[BluesKing777]

17 minutes ago, jt said:

I like your thinking!

 

Hey JT, have you played a J45 Legend?

Is so, honest impression?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[j45nick]

57 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Hey JT, have you played a J45 Legend?

Is so, honest impression?

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

JT has been spoiled by owning and/or playing the best of the best of banner Gibsons.

He may well say "there is no substitute for 75-year-old wood." I suspect he is right, but the (almost) 70-year-old wood in my "new" 1950 J-45 may be a close second.