Video: Replacing a Plywood Bridge Plate on a Gibson

[Leonard McCoy]

 

 

[j45nick]

I have mixed feelings every time I watch one of this guy's videos. He has a great shop, with a lot of very clever fixtures, and he knows how to use them.

But he also shows disappointing ignorance about some of the instruments he works on. Maybe that's part of his shtick.

The guitar is obviously a J-50 from about 1964-67.  That Martin-style bridge footprint was only used on the J-45/J-50  for a couple of years in the mid/late 1960s. If it had been '68, it probably would have a screw-on pickguard. By 1969, it would have been a square dread. You would think that a starting point for any repair on a vintage guitar would be an understanding of what the guitar actually is.

The bridge he was replacing on the guitar was not original. When he got it off, the plugged holes from the original adj bridge were visible, and problematic when it came to removing the bridgeplate.

The ply plate was clearly original, and was what Gibson was using in that period. Although the material he used for the replacement plate was unusual, it made sense, although when I had a similar plate replaced, I went with maple, which would be traditional for that instrument.

I don't know why he didn't go to the original slope-J drawings to determine the proper bridge height it he wanted to replicate the original, but he ended up in the right place.

I am not a fan of over-sized bridges, even to cover cosmetic issues. Moving the position of the pin holes away from the back edge of the bridge and closer to the saddle was a win-win decision, giving a better string break angle and slightly better structural properties for the bridge. He could have done that with the original bridge footprint.

At the same time, he did a good job on the repair, even if he over-complicated it in some ways.

He's the kind of guy that I would give my guitar to  for work, but only with a very complete written understanding of how the work was to be executed. No freelancing allowed, no changes without owner approval.

[Leonard McCoy]

I find with Jerry that he is an excellent woodworker, great mandolin builder, and a competent jack of all trades as a repair guy. However, some repair jobs, especially those requiring very specialized tools and skill sets (finish and restoration work, work on specific models), are best left to those who specialized in that particular brand of instruments, repair type, or field that is at issue. But those guys are hard to find and don't necessarily take on the job.

Any luthier that keeps the camera rolling as uncut as Jerry does is under intense scrutiny. Frankly, I would probably not return to my local luthiers were I to review the video footage of their repairs. Repairing guitars is the most difficult field to get right because it is so wide, requires an extremely wide array of skills, jigs, and tools, and you are always working under tight restrictions (time and/or money) — oftentimes much more so than when "solely" building stringed instrument.

That being said, I would probably not bring my Gibson or Ovation guitars in to Jerry for repair work.

Nonetheless, I find those videos above to be very instructional. It is not every day that you see a botched bridge plate made of plywood causing deformation in the top, that that the problem was correctly identified as such and then painstakingly fixed. Bridge plates, being at the very center of the construction and tightly glued as such, are a pain, and sometimes outright impossible, to remove with access only through the soundhole and without causing major damage.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Leonard McCoy

[j45nick]

That's a pretty good summary. 

The guy that works on my guitars specializes in vintage Gibsons and Martins, and the guitars in his shop for repairs always blow my mind.

He understand how they were built, and how to keep them working. He says he spends the largest percentage of his time un-doing poorly-done previous repairs, and I believe that.

He was really happy to work on my "new" 1950 J-45 earlier this yer, largely because no one had ever touched it. It was exactly as it came from the factory (plus about 70 years of wear).

Because bridgeplates can be so traumatic to the guitar to remove, he saves them whenever possible, preferring to conserve rather than replace when practical. For example, he merely filled and re-drilled the worn pinholes in the bridgeplate on my "new" J-45.

However, the 1968 plywood bridgeplate on my "old" 1950 J-45 had to go, and it wasn't an easy job getting it out

[aliasphobias]

V The guy is a first rate hack. He doesn't have a basic understanding of the materials he works with. I will admit I didn't watch the entire thing. I looked at the picture (destroyed finish around the bridge) and skipped ahead to see how he did that. Heat is not the best way to loosen glue, steam is. Just like the J200  that he used every chemical he had available to try and melt the lacquer.  Guess what melts lacquer? Lacquer thinner. The problem is/was lacquer thinner evaporates before it can soften the finish unless you add lacquer retarder with it. He charges people to ruin their guitars.

First do no harm!

[Leonard McCoy]

If there is but one thing the forums can count on it is both (i) your perfect timing to come out of the woodwork to rise your ire against that particular luthier as well as (ii) your ludicrous ideas on woodworking devoid of any rationale, real-world application or the repair job at hand.  And yet your sprouting nonsense fails to even entertain. (Though saying that made me remember that at one point you suggested that in order to better fit a heel to a dove tail was to wet it instead of using carbon paper, which made everyone have a good time who has ever used, or watched someone use,  an actual chisel.) That guitar finishes is the field that is the farthest away from Jerry's forte is hardly a point of surprise or contention.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Leonard McCoy

[aliasphobias]

On 12/11/2019 at 3:25 PM, Leonard McCoy said:

If there is but one thing the forums can count on it is both (i) your perfect timing to come out of the woodwork to rise your ire against that particular luthier as well as (ii) your ludicrous ideas on woodworking devoid of any rationale, real-world application or the repair job at hand.  And yet your sprouting nonsense fails to even entertain. (Though saying that made me remember that at one point you suggested that in order to better fit a heel to a dove tail was to wet it instead of using carbon paper, which made everyone have a good time who has ever used, or watched someone use,  an actual chisel.) That guitar finishes is the field that is the farthest away from Jerry's forte is hardly a point of surprise or contention.

 

It seems I have angered you Leonard. The next time that you are resetting a guitar neck, or fitting the dovetail on the guitar you are building try this experiment: take a very damp sponge and wet the mortise, then insert the dry dovetail, it will leave a very noticeable damp mark where material needs to be relieved for a tight fit. Just like carbon paper leaves an ink spot.

I have repaired guitars and build acoustics for a hobby. I don't claim expertise in either. I have also not accepted work I didn't feel I had the skill for. I have never handed one back to the owner that I had damaged through ignorance or negligence. The information Mr. Rosa lacks is readily available on the internet.

Feel free to qualify your rant with your real life woodworking experience.

Mr. Rosa posts his videos in a public forum he has welcomed public scrutiny.

[aliasphobias]

On 12/11/2019 at 3:25 PM, Leonard McCoy said:

If there is but one thing the forums can count on it is both (i) your perfect timing to come out of the woodwork to rise your ire against that particular luthier as well as (ii) your ludicrous ideas on woodworking devoid of any rationale, real-world application or the repair job at hand.  And yet your sprouting nonsense fails to even entertain. (Though saying that made me remember that at one point you suggested that in order to better fit a heel to a dove tail was to wet it instead of using carbon paper, which made everyone have a good time who has ever used, or watched someone use,  an actual chisel.) That guitar finishes is the field that is the farthest away from Jerry's forte is hardly a point of surprise or contention.

 So you come here belittle me. Appoint yourself as spokesperson for "the forums", as well as the woodworking community and you have nothing? No woodworking experience to cite for those who use an "actual chisel"?

[Leonard McCoy]

There's a followup even: