Is my Gibson REALLY a Gibson

[GuitarGene]

I purchased a 2019 Dot in Antique Faded Cherry . I decided to get a studio ES-335 for venues where I wouldn't want to take the more expensive Dot, so I just purchased a 2019 ES-335 studio in ebony.

I got the guitar in the post yesterday, bought it from an Irish Gibson dealer.

These two guitars are supposed to have the same frets and necks etc but to me the studio seems very different. There are a few things:

1) The bridge on the two guitars is different. The Studio one is TonePro AVR-II and has Nylon washers on the adjusters. The Dot one has no washers and the saddles look more robust. I replaced the Studio's bridge with a roller one anyway.

2) The fret wire used is spec'd the same for both guitars  but the frets on the Studio look to be not as 'jumbo'.

3) the Dot's bridge height adjusters looks to screw directly into the center block whereas the Studio's screws into bridge pins. I presume the Dot's are screwed into bridge pins but it LOOKS like the height adjusters screw into wood.

4) The screw that holds the pickup selector switch in place is different on both guitars. The Dot's has fine indents on the thumbscrew nut and the Studio's are coarse, see photo.

5) The paint finish on the neck at the socket joint on the 6th string side is poor on the Studio and could have done with another bit of spray finish.

6) The Dot's label is red and dated 2019 and Memphis and the Studio's is orange with no date and Nashville. 

7) The Dot's case is brown with 4 catches and the Studio's is black with only 3 catches made by TKL.

So, what do you reckon is all as it should be?

I can only upload a small selection of photo unfortunately but may add them in reply to this so you can see, I will try that.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by GuitarGene
typo

[badbluesplayer]

You could remove the pickups and see if they have stickers on their backs - that would help to verify it's authenticity. 

The bridge on the Studio isn't the same as in Gibson's specs, but those things can change.  Those kinds of inserts are a new way Gibson does some of the abr-1 type bridges, so that's not necessarily a problem.

The frets ought to be Medium Jumbo's on both guitars - according to the specs - but I suppose that the studio could be different.  The Dot has had Medium Jumbo's for a long time.

The best way to have the guys on here check it out is to post a bunch of photos and then we can visually check the usual stuff.  You need to use a photo hosting site or facebook or somewhere else to host the photos and then link to them here so they'll show up here.

[GuitarGene]

Hi, thanks.  Ah, I think it is ok. I just set it up with Dean Markley 10-52's and used the top wrap technique and it is playing and feeling good to play now with the roller bridge, just have to set the pickup heights now.

I have to say this ES studio was not well set up out of the case at all and it took a lot of adjustment to get right. The roller bridge is supposed to help reduce string breakage and they don't cut my hands. The original spec saddles tend to cut me sometimes! 🙂

I got it in a long standing Gibson dealer so I doubt if it hooky.

Here is link to photos.     http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/usaaf14/library/2019 Gibson ES-335 Studio in Ebony

Thanks.

Edited December 14, 2019 by GuitarGene
adding photo link

[GuitarGene]

Are the bridge pins on my Dot actually screwed into the center block or is there some sort of threaded ferrule under there?

[drumandstage]

What make and model bridge did you use? 

[merciful-evans]

Looks like straight into centre block. My 2015 ES-339 is the same. Though a threaded insert would provide a little more support, its perfectly stable without it. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by merciful-evans

[GuitarGene]

DrumAnd Stage:      I get my hardware and pickups from here                      https://www.axetec.co.uk/       

Keith is his name.

They are very good for guitar parts, electronics etc and good value. The Irongear pickups are very good for the money, VERY good and great value.

I have purchased several cheap guitars and modded them with new pickups and pots/wiring/locking tuners/roller saddles etc and for not too much money and with some fret dressing and setups they play and sound as good as anything expensive.

Here is link to the pickups                 http://www.irongear.co.uk/

I was gigging a Tokai ES-73 last night and I have to say it is bloody fantastic,  a China made one in sunburst. I think it actually feels better in the hands than the Gibson Studio. I have D'Addario EXL 125-10P        9-46's  on it. Strange thing is to get the same feel on the Gibson Studio I had to go with Dean Markley  LTHB 10-52'S but is is top wrapped though. I might try the Gibson Studio at my performance tonight. The Tokai arrived about two weeks ago damaged in the post. The shop on REVERB I purchased it from shipped it in it's own little cardboard sleeve with gaffa tape (duct) round it, so it had no chance. Wee chip on the headstock but otherwise seems ok.  I put locking tuners on it and did a setup. I have to say I will leave the pickups stock and pots etc as it sounded really organic and vintage sounding last night. First time I have performed Crossroads where it sounds right, just doesn't with a solid body I think.

I will try to put up some photos of the modded studio later.

 

Thanks, E

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by GuitarGene
typo

[GuitarGene]

4 minutes ago, merciful-evans said:

Ah, I'd say it would be best to adjust any height changes on the bridge with the strings loosed off here to take the pressure off the threads in the wood. Otherwise you could be in trouble. Has anyone ever had problems like that on their ES-335, threads stripping in the wood due to adjustment?

[GuitarGene]

I added a few more photos of the roller bridge. I will replace this nickel one with a black nickel one which is a tad darker and will go well with the black finish, probably put the black nickel end stop tail on it too.

http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/usaaf14/library/2019 Gibson ES-335 Studio in Ebony

[GuitarGene]

On 12/15/2019 at 4:52 PM, GuitarGene said:

Ah, I'd say it would be best to adjust any height changes on the bridge with the strings loosed off here to take the pressure off the threads in the wood. Otherwise you could be in trouble. Has anyone ever had problems like that on their ES-335, threads stripping in the wood due to adjustment?

Ah, I see now thumbscrew is all that adjusts up or down on the post. The actual screw that goes into the centerblock does not. So, safe enough and it will never move. 🙂 Good.

[GuitarGene]

On 12/14/2019 at 1:56 PM, GuitarGene said:

I purchased a 2019 Dot in Antique Faded Cherry . I decided to get a studio ES-335 for venues where I wouldn't want to take the more expensive Dot, so I just purchased a 2019 ES-335 studio in ebony.

I got the guitar in the post yesterday, bought it from an Irish Gibson dealer.

These two guitars are supposed to have the same frets and necks etc but to me the studio seems very different. There are a few things:

1) The bridge on the two guitars is different. The Studio one is TonePro AVR-II and has Nylon washers on the adjusters. The Dot one has no washers and the saddles look more robust. I replaced the Studio's bridge with a roller one anyway.

2) The fret wire used is spec'd the same for both guitars  but the frets on the Studio look to be not as 'jumbo'.

3) the Dot's bridge height adjusters looks to screw directly into the center block whereas the Studio's screws into bridge pins. I presume the Dot's are screwed into bridge pins but it LOOKS like the height adjusters screw into wood.

4) The screw that holds the pickup selector switch in place is different on both guitars. The Dot's has fine indents on the thumbscrew nut and the Studio's are coarse, see photo.

5) The paint finish on the neck at the socket joint on the 6th string side is poor on the Studio and could have done with another bit of spray finish.

6) The Dot's label is red and dated 2019 and Memphis and the Studio's is orange with no date and Nashville. 

7) The Dot's case is brown with 4 catches and the Studio's is black with only 3 catches made by TKL.

So, what do you reckon is all as it should be?

I can only upload a small selection of photo unfortunately but may add them in reply to this so you can see, I will try that.

 

 

 

 

Just noticed, the bridge that was fitted to this guitar when purchased new a few weeks ago is not an ABR-1 as stated in the spec. I think it is a Nashville with white plastic washers on the intonation screws. According to the spec it is supposed to be an ABR-1 I think. Here is a link about bridge types https://faberusa.com/what-is-the-difference-between-the-different-bridge-types/

My ES-335 Studio has the bridge posts screwed into a metal threaded bush that is mounted in the centerblock. I according to the info found at the link above this is a NASHVILLE bridge not an ABR-1.

Strange.............................

[Sgt. Pepper]

Not that these  thing can't be faked but does it have a orange Gibson sticker in the upper F hole. Did you check the serial number with Gibson themselves? Its an ES so taking the pots out is a chore with no control cavity cover, but like BBP said look at the pups. People can buy aftermarket parts and stuff on ebay and Reverb all day long now.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[GuitarGene]

6 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Not that these  thing can't be faked but does it have a orange Gibson sticker in the upper F hole. Did you check the serial number with Gibson themselves? Its an ES so taking the pots out is a chore with no control cavity cover, but like BBP said look at the pups. People can buy aftermarket parts and stuff on ebay and Reverb all day long now.

Yes it has the sticker and came with the setup photo and Cert. I am emailing Gibson now. I bought from a main dealer in Dublin.

[Sgt. Pepper]

17 minutes ago, GuitarGene said:

Yes it has the sticker and came with the setup photo and Cert. I am emailing Gibson now. I bought from a main dealer in Dublin.

If you got it from a reputable dealer in Dublin I would think its real. Gibson changes and doesn't do anything consistent  even in the same year. 

[GuitarGene]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

If you got it from a reputable dealer in Dublin I would think its real. Gibson changes and doesn't do anything consistent  even in the same year. 

I'm sure it is fine but all the shops state it has an ABR bridge but on one online store I think I can see the little white plastic washers on the intonation screws just like mine. I will know for sure when they reply.

[Wmachine]

Just an observation.  I'm wondering if what you have is an indication of the overall quality suffering from the move from Memphis to Nashville.  I have a 2016 Studio and the quality is excellent.  The lesser cost is not due to any shortcuts in quality and construction.  In fact, it is probably a bigger bang for the buck that the more expensive models. 

[GuitarGene]

The bridge this shipped with was a TonePros AVR II but had white washers instead of the retaining wire.

[GuitarGene]

1 hour ago, Wmachine said:

Just an observation.  I'm wondering if what you have is an indication of the overall quality suffering from the move from Memphis to Nashville.  I have a 2016 Studio and the quality is excellent.  The lesser cost is not due to any shortcuts in quality and construction.  In fact, it is probably a bigger bang for the buck that the more expensive models. 

I wouldn't think so. My ES-335 dot 2019 in Antique faded Cherry is a lovely example. Both my ES-335s are 2019 but they feel quite different the neck I'd imagine feels chunkier on the Studio but they supposed to be the same. Perhaps the binding on the dot is throwing me out somehow.

I have a China Tokai ES-73 I souped up with new locking tuners, pickups and pots, and added two micro switches offset between each set of vol/tone for coil split. Works great, I flick the switch to full humbucker mode for soloing while in split mode, handy boost. It is a lovely guitar, feels superb.

I have the studio setup and playing great but I put a roller bridge and wrapped the strings around the tailpiece.

It shipped with a TonePros AVR II but this one has white washers on it instead of the wire retainer. As Sgt. Pepper stated they probably just changed the spec through a production run or something. Don't get me wrong the Studio is lovely , I just cant figure how the spec possibly changed and wasn't indicated on their site. I sent email to Gibson to verify the guitar, no word back yet.

The only blemish on the guitar is there at the neck join on the wound strings side, there is a wee spot that could have done with a bit more black spray but I can fix this and it is only very minor. I have setup the guitar to my spec and gigged it and it is nice, I wish the knobs had more grip as I ride the volumes with my wee finger to solo and alter tone a lot. I had some black rubber grip ones but they did not fit splines and these are very hard to get it seems for standard pots. They will fit Asia built Epiphones etc but not  USA Gibs.

Funny enough, last week I purchased a 2007 used Gibson SG Standard in Dublin. It had a chip in the nut so replaced it with a Tusq XL one I shaped and set in. I put the Tone Pro AVR II on this SG as it's own bridge was tatty enough. I set the intonation on it last night at 1 am. It is a lovely one but I'm not sure if the pickups are 57's or 490's, I will need to take a DC reading. If there is a difference between the output of both types, I will know what I have. The guitar has 60's not 50's wiring and is better for shielding than '50s wiring. But this bridge that was originally on the ES-335 Studio is a good one. Just strange the spec was different than their website or any shop you look at online.

Edited February 27, 2020 by GuitarGene

[GuitarGene]

Gibson got back to me and wondered about the bridge too. They asked me to send photos of the serial number on the back of the headstock, photo of the bridge etc.

However, I have seen the same bridge on a 2019 Studio image shown on the Thomann website but it is different than any TonePros AVR II on the Tone Pros website. NO bridge on their website shows white washers and ALL feature a locking feature that binds the bridge to the posts by means of tightening a little screw, mine has not got these screws.

I have since discovered the bridge on the 2019 ES-335 dot is not as described in the spec. It is in fact an ABR-1 but a non wire version as used from 1962-63.

So, there are a lot of inconsistencies both from Gibson and Tone Pros from what I am learning so far. Nothing is quite as it seems!

When I hear more from Gibson I will keep you informed.

[Sgt. Pepper]

18 hours ago, GuitarGene said:

Gibson got back to me and wondered about the bridge too. They asked me to send photos of the serial number on the back of the headstock, photo of the bridge etc.

However, I have seen the same bridge on a 2019 Studio image shown on the Thomann website but it is different than any TonePros AVR II on the Tone Pros website. NO bridge on their website shows white washers and ALL feature a locking feature that binds the bridge to the posts by means of tightening a little screw, mine has not got these screws.

I have since discovered the bridge on the 2019 ES-335 dot is not as described in the spec. It is in fact an ABR-1 but a non wire version as used from 1962-63.

So, there are a lot of inconsistencies both from Gibson and Tone Pros from what I am learning so far. Nothing is quite as it seems!

When I hear more from Gibson I will keep you informed.

So let me get this straight. You contacted Gibson and they are not sure about  a guitar they supposedly made and want pics and the serial number. Did you give them the SN the first time you contacted or e-mailed them. Wow what a pro company they are.

[GIO76]

I just purchased a new 2019 Studio, and was curious to find this post. The bridge on mine also has the white washers. 
Before pulling the trigger on this purchase, I reviewed the specs on the Gibson website (about 2weeks ago) and they made a big deal about using the ABR-1 bridge.  I printed the spec page for my records, and I’m glad I did because Gibson no longer has the Studio page on their web site. Maybe they pulled it because of GuitarGene’s inquiry? 

[GuitarGene]

On 2/29/2020 at 4:20 PM, Sgt. Pepper said:

So let me get this straight. You contacted Gibson and they are not sure about  a guitar they supposedly made and want pics and the serial number. Did you give them the SN the first time you contacted or e-mailed them. Wow what a pro company they are.

Sorry only getting back now, been busy.

The guy from Gibson (EU) was very helpful. He said the non-wire ABR-1 bridge is correct. He stated the following

'The specs can always change without notice, and the Memphis factory was closed last year and then the guitars were being built at the USA factory. Your guitar was made at the USA factory, the link I sent you was with the Memphis factory specs.

That can make the difference as well.'

So, this is all probably down to the changeover between the production plants.

Yes, I sent S/N.

 

Main thing is the guitar is playing well anyway. I top wrapped it and it is nice. Feels different to my 2019 Dot but I think this is due to the rolled edge binding on the dot. If I had not 'top wrapped' my Studio it would feel very different to the Dot even though the strings are same on both.  No two guitars are the same anyway I guess.

 

I put this down to Gibson the changing from one production plant to the other and the spec changed somewhere along the way. Main thing is it plays well, sounds well and records well, I just wondered at the difference between the two when I got the Studio.

 

I will be interested in the new 2020 USA Epiphone Casino when it comes out to see the price. I have seen some Gibson ES-330 2018's for sale with humbuckers recently and they are nice but I think these types are best with P-90s.