When a Band Turns into a Corporation

[ollie94]

10 hours ago, Big Bill said:

Found this article about Aerosmith. Joey Kramer injures his ankle and couldn't play for the last six months. Now he is forced to "audition" to rejoin the band. They will not even let him participate in the Grammys.  I wonder who is the mastermind behind this move? LSS

https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/aerosmith-drummer-sues-rejoin-band-grammy-honors-68453465?cid=clicksource_4380645_11_comic_strip_sq_hed

 

It is very sad to see when great iconic bands such as Aerosmith becomes a business and a brand and everybody gets distracted from the thing that should be priority no1... the music. It happens with every band that becomes a little bit successful and then they are turned into corporate money making machines.

[cody78]

1 minute ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Joe left or was kicked out during the recording of that LP. I'd rather hear his 1st solo album than NITR.

True. He did play and co-write  a  few songs on NITR, though I forget which ones. The credits are on Wiki and more comprehensive than in the album liner notes I think. I've actually never heard Joe's solo albums. I must have a listen at some point. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

4 minutes ago, cody78 said:

True. He did play and co-write  a  few songs on NITR, though I forget which ones. The credits are on Wiki and more comprehensive than in the album liner notes I think. I've actually never heard Joe's solo albums. I must have a listen at some point. 

I love his first. The singer is okay. I like his version of Let The Music Do The Talking better than the one he did when rejoining Aerosmith.

[brad1]

6 hours ago, jdgm said:

That's just nasty. 

Reminds me of Sabbath (or Sharon on behalf of Sabbath) firing Bill Ward.   Bad scene.

 

Not similar at all. 

Bill Ward is one of my favorite drummers. 

But he was really messed up on drugs and alcohol and just simply could not perform the way he used to. And he would be the first to admit that .  I've heard him say he does not really remember recording most of Heaven and Hell .  And some parts are not even him  

He had to go. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

14 minutes ago, brad1 said:

Not similar at all. 

Bill Ward is one of my favorite drummers. 

But he was really messed up on drugs and alcohol and just simply could not perform the way he used to. And he would be the first to admit that .  I've heard him say he does not really remember recording most of Heaven and Hell .  And some parts are not even him  

He had to go. 

Ozzy is a joke. Hasn't done anything good since Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. If I recall he was booted from BS hence Dio signing on Heaven and Hell. If he didn't hook up with Randy no would care about him.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[sparquelito]

Any band who has lasted as long as Aerosmith did (notice I didn't say, "as long as Aerosmith has)" with all the original members has my respect. 

It's sad when there's a falling-out, and the business gets in the way of old friendships and alliances. 
This slight to Joey Kramer seems shabby to me, but then again I don't know the whole story, nor any of the ins and outs of it. 

Luckily, I'm not that big of an Aerosmith fan. So I'm not torn up about it. 
Yes, I saw them live in Germany back in 1990, and it was great. 
Yes, our band plays Sweet Emotion on occasion, and it's always a crowd-pleaser. 

But I never got that into Aerosmith, and I only ever owned one LP by them (Draw The Line). 

I think there are a certain number of band of this generation who really aren't 'bands' so much as business ventures that go out on the road every few years just to make a bit of money. 

:(

 

[rct]

They're still mad at him for driving that Ferrari or Lamborghini or whatever it was into the gas pump.

rct

[jdgm]

2 hours ago, brad1 said:

Not similar at all. 

Bill Ward is one of my favorite drummers. 

But he was really messed up on drugs and alcohol and just simply could not perform the way he used to. And he would be the first to admit that .  I've heard him say he does not really remember recording most of Heaven and Hell .  And some parts are not even him  

He had to go. 

 

I'm sure you are right.  It was the 'original drummer gets booted out after 40+ years'  scenario that I thought similar.

I even saw Black Sabbath once; early in 1970 for six shillings!  I was 15.

Edited January 24, 2020 by jdgm

[Navy Vet.]

What ever these folks do it’s really none of my business.  Because it’s really just business. I never owned one piece of Aerosmith’s music and I never will. They just aren’t my cup of tea. But for those fans who dig Aerosmith you can do what I chose not to do when Fleetwood Mac went on tour last year without Lindsey Buckingham, I chose not to see them in Birmingham. And I didn’t miss a damn thing. 

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, Navy Vet. said:

What ever these folks do it’s really none of my business.  Because it’s really just business. I never owned one piece of Aerosmith’s music and I never will. They just aren’t my cup of tea. But for those fans who dig Aerosmith you can do what I chose not to do when Fleetwood Mac went on tour last year without Lindsey Buckingham, I chose not to see them in Birmingham. And I didn’t miss a damn thing. 

Remember they had to replace Lindsey with 2 guitarist. He's that good. Saw him solo. Screw the Mac.  There soft now anyway.

[Navy Vet.]

42 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Remember they had to replace Lindsey with 2 guitarist. He's that good. Saw him solo. Screw the Mac.  There soft now anyway.

I saw Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks 1975 at Boutwell Auditorium on their Buckingham Nicks album tour. It was the only album they made.  Stevie Nicks had to be about 24 years old, 3 years older than me. Lindsey Buckingham was unbelievable and they even played a song that wasn’t on the album- Rhiannon! 
When they joined ‘Mac, they became Fleetwood Mac. 

[01GT eibach]

8 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

... Draw The Line was a drug fueled mess ... 

I love that album!

[jaxson50]

A bunch of petty crap if you ask me,  once the lawyers and bean counters weasel up your butt,  and egos go unchecked.

But OTOH, it makes me appreciate the Stones ability to carry on as long as they have and still manage to put aside personality conflicts and personal conflicts and still produce music.

(I hated the disco era stones) but now they  are rolling,  pun intended,  back to their roots , blues and rock.

[01GT eibach]

Then ... there is the other  side of the story ...

Kramer has been away from the band for around eight months with health problems, and shoulder and foot injuries..  The band has had a fill-in playing for him in this absence.  He  is just now -- on the eve of their big Grammy performance -- wanting to get back in without participating in many of the rehearsals.   The band says they are okay with him coming back into the band, but not this gig without proper rehearsing.  They are also okay with him being with them at the Grammys, on-stage and off -- just not part of not the performance.  Actually, their side of the story sounds pretty reasonable ...

['Scales]

They frustrate me...I should love their stuff, hard rocking with 2 guitars...an American AC/DC! ...but maybe I've missed a few gems in their catalogue? Some of the early hits are fine, but I didn't like the stuff that came out when I was actually old enough to have it as current (Perm Vacation, Pump...). Maybe my favourite song of theirs is My Fist Your Face, but even that really is like a Mick Taylor era Stones song revved up a bit to me. I wish they did it for me but they never quite have.

[Sgt. Pepper]

7 hours ago, 01GT eibach said:

I love that album!

Why? Maybe 2 or 3 good songs. Too much drugs and not enough substance. That was the first 'Smith album I ever heard on 8 track.

Edited January 24, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, 'Scales said:

They frustrate me...I should love their stuff, hard rocking with 2 guitars...an American AC/DC! ...but maybe I've missed a few gems in their catalogue? Some of the early hits are fine, but I didn't like the stuff that came out when I was actually old enough to have it as current (Perm Vacation, Pump...). Maybe my favourite song of theirs is My Fist Your Face, but even that really is like a Mick Taylor era Stones song revved up a bit to me. I wish they did it for me but they never quite have.

Just get Rocks its all you really need.

[brad1]

23 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Just get Rocks its all you really need.

Get Your Wings is equally good imo 

[Sgt. Pepper]

30 minutes ago, brad1 said:

Get Your Wings is equally good imo 

Yeah that is a good LP too. The first one, meeh.

[cody78]

Everyone raves about Rocks, but for me Toys in the Attic was better. Rocks is great, but Toys is easily the best album they ever made. Someone mentioned Get Your Wings and when I first heard that one I wasn't too impressed. I like it now, but I think it's their weakest album of the 70's and I prefer Draw the Line and Night in the Ruts. It's interesting how everyone hears things differently. 

[cody78]

9 hours ago, 01GT eibach said:

I love that album!

 

Me too! It's very underrated I think. Not a bad song on it and their version of Milk Cow Blues was a great way to finish the album. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by cody78

[Sgt. Pepper]

8 minutes ago, cody78 said:

Everyone raves about Rocks, but for me Toys in the Attic was better. Rocks is great, but Toys is easily the best album they ever made. Someone mentioned Get Your Wings and when I first heard that one I wasn't too impressed. I like it now, but I think it's their weakest album of the 70's and I prefer Draw the Line and Night in the Ruts. It's interesting how everyone hears things differently. 

Toys was good too, but after the Run DMC thing, I never want to hear Walk This Way ever again.

[cody78]

3 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Toys was good too, but after the Run DMC thing, I never want to hear Walk This Way ever again.

Yes, that is a fair point. It does get played far too much and the Run DMC version can be somewhat annoying. 

Edited January 24, 2020 by cody78

[Sgt. Pepper]

Just read a judge sided with Aerosmith and not Joey about playing at the Grammy's. Cause he hadn't played in a while. What a crock of s_ _ _ !

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by Sgt. Pepper

[NighthawkChris]

15 hours ago, 01GT eibach said:

Then ... there is the other  side of the story ...

Kramer has been away from the band for around eight months with health problems, and shoulder and foot injuries..  The band has had a fill-in playing for him in this absence.  He  is just now -- on the eve of their big Grammy performance -- wanting to get back in without participating in many of the rehearsals.   The band says they are okay with him coming back into the band, but not this gig without proper rehearsing.  They are also okay with him being with them at the Grammys, on-stage and off -- just not part of not the performance.  Actually, their side of the story sounds pretty reasonable ...

I mean, what are they going to play that this guy hasn't played with them for 40+ years on stage that he couldn't handle?  It's not like Aerosmith music has this astounding drum stuff to do - especially for a song or 2...  It obviously ticked off Joey to the point he tried to go to court.  How long should it take for this band to do a song or 2 they've done for many years at a live Grammys performance to celebrate the anniversary of the band?  He's coming back now ready to play and I think that decades of founding and work - through thick and thin - should be good enough track record to say welcome back...  What if you left your job on disability and come back to find that someone replaces you.  Mind you you would have to have had significant experience and time put in at some place where you have a good track record of getting the job done just fine.  I think that would tick me off too.  It actually might be heart wrenching especially if I had some passion in my job. 

In then end though, not my business, nor do I really care what happens to this band, but the whole thing just sounds like something is afoul.  Not trying to ruffle feathers here, but the optics as I said look very bad for someone who is looking in as a fan of this band.  If I were in this guy's shoes, I'd be flabbergasted.  He's only given this band the best years of his life only to be denied the once in a lifetime experience he wishes to have.  Serving the likes of the Steven Tyler and Joe Perry as a lesser known member of a band giant for decades...  Yeah, I'd be more than upset too.  It's not like this guy was coming back from a drug-fueled binge AFAIK.  And it's not like the guy asked to have health problems either.  I'd be putting years of alliance into question given these circumstances. 

So I do understand what you were getting at, and in reality, I know only the smallest part of this whole story most likely.  But based on what I heard and hearing fan reactions - which themselves may not be worth anything at all (willing to concede that) - it sounds like the band is treating him like he's just a replaceable piece of the project he's been part of for decades - i.e. the better part of his lifetime.  Sucks you spend decades working on something only to live now and look back and think this is what it all came down to?!  Wow...  Funny game life is.