dhanners623 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I'm wondering if the LG-2 owners out there can help me with some measurements. I'm trying to figure out how far the tuner posts are inset from the side of the headstock. Can someone grab their LG-2 and measure, in centimeters, how far the centerline of the string posts are from the side for the 4th, 5th and 6th strings? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I can check later this evening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 They should be the same as on others with the "standard" headstock shape and size, like the J-45. Pretty sure the necks are interchangeable on those two lines. On the J-45 plans, measuring from the CL of the string post to the nearest point on the side of the headstock, distances of ALL posts to the side is just under 15mm. Transverse distance between post 1 and 6 is 41.5mm, between 2 and 5 is 42.5mm, 3 and 4 is 44.5mm. That is a slight anomaly, and may just be a drawing error. I don't think these are cad drawings, but could be wrong on that. However, measuring on my untouched 1950 J-45, you get slightly different numbers from post to side, but on the fractional millimeter order. Also, on that guitar the 1-6 spacing is about 37.5, and the 3-4 is about 44.5. These are not easy to measure accurately with the tuners on the guitar. Remember that there is slop in the tuning posts, so you might get slightly different results with no string tension vs tension. The guitars I measured, as opposed to the plans, have string tension. I also discovered that the headstock shape on the plans has less "arc" on the sides than on either my modern or vintage slope-J headstocks, which are almost identical in plan view, but very slightly different from as-drawn. For example, the side arc on either side of the headstock on the drawings is about 2mm, but it is 3+ on the actual guitars. If you let me know what you are trying to figure out, I can try to do this more precisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 The best way I could measure it was by measuring the gear diameter (10mm), measure the depth of the edge to the gear and add 5mm. I set the verniers to the result then held it up to the post for a reference. Shown in order are 4th, 5th then 6th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 Thanks. I was wanting to replace the tuners that came on my Farida OT-22 (Farida/Elderly's LG-2 copy) and so I got the same set of Golden Age Restoration tuners from StewMac that I installed on my J-35 a couple of years ago. But when I put them on, the bottom edge of the buttons barely clear the side of the headstock. I measured the distance from the centerline of the tuning post to the plane of the bottom of the tuner buttons. On the Farida tuners, the distance is 1.9cm. On the GAR tuners, it is 1.5cm. On my J-35, the distance from the centerline of the tuning post to the side of the headstock is 1.2cm. On the Farida, it is 1.6cm, although the Farida's headstock edge is arched, so the 2nd and 5th string posts are about 2mm closer. I emailed StewMac and it appears they don't have any white- or cream-button tuners that have enough clearance to fit. The bottom line is I think Farida inset the tuner holes too far from the edge of the headstock. Their guitars all seem to use the same tuners, so I'm guessing they space the holes to fit the tuners. That's not a problem unless you want to change tuners. So I'm either stuck with them (they work fine, so I'm not really complaining) or I can have the tuner holes plugged and redrilled. That's a pricey bit of work on a guitar that costs $423.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Any possibility of just changing the buttons themselves? or. . . Maybe Plasti Dip makes a cream color. 😬. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, 62burst said: Any possibility of just changing the buttons themselves? or. . . Maybe Plasti Dip makes a cream color. 😬. I've actually changed tuner buttons before, and I've also "aged" them with Kiwi brown shoe polish. Some guy on the Facebook J-35 fan page got good results aging the buttons with turmeric mixed in hot water, but I have no idea if that treatment lasts. That said, it isn't just a button issue. I've had great luck with GAR tuners (I've had them on three different guitars and they work great) and they'd be an upgrade on the OT-22. I may just live with the stock tuners, but when we move back to the U.S. this summer, maybe I'll dive in and have the holes plugged and redrilled to fit the GARs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 It's amazing the degree of variation on these numbers, but it is very difficult to measure them precisely with the tuners installed, even using a digital caliper. I had thought that these holes would be drilled as part of the neck-carving CNC process. Obviously, any finish sanding of the headstock sides after the holes are drilled can change the position relative to the side of the headstock, but these changes should still be at sub-millimeter level. I am curious at potential differences in headstock shapes here. We know the 1930's guitars have a narrower shape, and I believe guitars such as the J-200 (and maybe Dove and 'bird) have larger headstocks. The question really applies to slope-J's and their smaller-bodied LG-style counterparts. Are the at least nominally the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Thanks for doing the measuring, Dave. The results show the difficulty of aligning strip tuners on a headstock with curved sides! I would have chimed in, but two of my Banners are currently on long term loan (to Jennifer Nettles and Emily Saliers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Inch wise I’m guessing they align the holes 7/16” from the straight section and let them fall in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 A quick update.... I bit the bullet and decided to relocate the tuner holes so I can install a set of Golden Age Restoration tuners. There's a very good guitar repair shop, Guitar Repair Collective, a 5-minute walk from our apartment. The owner, George (known locally as "Dr. Fret") is a nice guy and does great work. I took my OT-22 by the other day and described the situation. He's willing to do the work (plug and re-drill the tuner holes, do the cosmetic touch-up, install the new tuners) for €60, which is cheaper than what the job would cost in the U.S. So I went home and ordered the GAR tuners from StewMac and when they arrive, I'll takethe guitar in. I checked and Farida uses the same tuners on all its guitars, and they are arranged in a rectangular fashion. As you can see from Dave F's great photos (as well as other photos I found online) the two 3-on-a-plate tuner strips on LG-2's (and even my J-35) are arranged in a trapezoidal fashion -- the posts for the 3rd and 4th strings are farther apart than the posts for the 1st and 6th strings. On Faridas, the plates are equidistant, and since the tuner button post is unusually long, Farida insets the tuner post holes quite far from the edge of the headstock. If you want to upgrade tuners, you can't because there isn't enough clearance between the buttons and the edge of the headstock. Re-locating the tuner holes will fix that problem. I'll keep you updated, and thanks for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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