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CLIVE ALLUM

J200 , PICKGUARD LIFTING OFF SOUNDBOARD

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Can anybody out there in Gibsonville help me,

Despite trying 2 actual Gibson pickguards and self  applying,using all the correct techniques advised by luthiers ,I still can,t solve the problem oh the pickguard lifting off the sounboard .

Can anybody advise me where to get a non curly pickguard.?

 

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Sorry to hear. How were you able to obtain two authentic Gibson pickguards? Gibson is known to have sent purchasers of new guitars replacement 'guards if there was a problem with the original ones. But when the guitar is going on it's third p/g, the preparation of the surface should start to be given a closer look.

What did the luthiers advise you as to the "correct techniques"? Also- what year is this guitar?

Welcome to the forum.

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Hi, I am very new to this site,so getting used to it ,also struggling to attach any pics.

However ,the original pickguard came with the 2005  Gibson j200  antique natural   guitar ,but I did purchase this preowned , but in immaculate hardly used condition  in 2013.

So can,t conirm if it was the original pickguard, looked fine and intact when I first got it , after about 2 months , started to see the pickguard lifting then started to try to rectify .

Sadly it appears the previous  had used contact type glue to hold ithe pickguard down ,  and upon very  careful removal ,I saw that it had been glues down a few times at the spots where it was lifting , but surprisingly no adhesive remained on the sounboard and the only sign of damage to the still intact  varnish ,was a  pickguard shaped shadowing effect to the  soundboard under the varnish.

Tried the renowned  Gibson approved stores im the UK  for advice to no avail , eventually   Gibson Europe agency , kindly despatched a replacement  with adhesive film attached  , exactly the same as original.

The soundboard surface was dabbed with a very small  of  mild soap cleanser with cotton buds and left to dry for 24 hrs ,

When dried I removed the adhesive protection film on back of pickguard , warmed up the area with warm  dry cotton  pad,and carefully stuck the pickguard in position.

Looked great, well pleased , put it back in its case , and didnt pick it up again for say 3 months , unfortunately the curl had started on this new one.

Since , I have tried to firefight the dry patches with 3M adhesive film patches , that last for a few days , but not adhesive enough to prevent the curl.

This problem only occurs to this guitar in my collection m the

 

 

 

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It sounds like surface contamination if the adhesive sheet is sticking to the guard but not to the top. Unfortunately, what is causing the problem may have transferred  to the adhesive sheet, rendering it less effective. It may be the you need to use some naphtha to clean the surface of the guitar more thoroughly. It is also possible that a previous owner used a polish containing silicone on the top at some point, and this got transferred onto the pickguard area during cleaning. Silicone contamination is very difficult to remove.

You might contact Gibson customer service in the US for advice.

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The larger pickguards that Gibson has.. have been more a issue with curling up on the edges..  I have a few hand engraved ones from Ren from the early 90s.. that have never been applied but have done the same thing.. they have lost there shape..   a good luthier might be able to heat the guard up and flatten it back down  redouble tape and put back on the Guitar..  stewmac has the proper double sided 3m adhesive.

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3 hours ago, j45nick said:

It sounds like surface contamination if the adhesive sheet is sticking to the guard but not to the top. ........ It is also possible that a previous owner used a polish containing silicone on the top at some point, and this got transferred onto the pickguard area during cleaning. Silicone contamination is very difficult to remove.

You talking about me? 😉

 

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If the guitar were mine, I’d thoroughly treat the pickguard area with Virtuoso Cleaner - which is safe with a nitro finish, but also has good cutting power.

Best of luck sorting it out.

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You may just have to glue it and clamp it overnight. It is a simple job for a professional.

Frank Ford describes how it is done: http://frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Pickguards/ReglueGuard/reglueguard.html

Maybe the bigger question is why in the heck are you sticking a perfectly good J200 in the case for three months at a time? Those things are built to be played. Regularly.

 

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Hi  Guys,

Thanks for all the advice, goes to show never too old to learn.

My plan is to use "the napther idea " ( guessing thats lighter fuel Zippo etc.) to remove the sticky mess left underneath the redundant pickguard , reapply 3m, super strong adhesive film sheet to the underside .

Remove the existing  pickguard,carefully ,then use a small amount of napther on  a soft cloth  to  to clean off any remaining adhesive surface of the guitar , and to remove any silicone residue  that may be present   to prepare surface ,then carefully apply pressure with a warm cloth pad,to  ensure pickguard evenly stuck .

The clamping idea seems great , but noticed that the guy was using wood glue directly on to the Martin guitar barewood so not sure if that is applicable to my dilemma .

Thinking about the silicone polish  comment ,I,m wondering if it may be the root cause of the problem, got to fall on my sword , put my hands up and admit I,ve never checked if the polishes i,ve used contain high quanties of silicone, so just purchased bottle of Dunlop 65 , for future use .

Does my plan seem feasible , or am I heading straight into more problems ? .

Incidentally ,I have taken the guitar to several luthiers , however the response is that , yes , they can stick it down, but none seem to be able to "guarantee"  it will not lift.

Regarding not playing the guitar, for live gigging I tend to use Takamine ,Taylor, Martin  etc. as they are fairly robust and should a battery need changing mid set its a really simple and quick problem to resolve, unlike the J200 which has got an absolutely ridiculous velcro battery pack pouch system tucked inside the guitar , but hey ,thats another story and  problem to talk about some other time .

Still love the guitar , just want to love it more ..

Happy Strumming

Clive

 

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One more thing that can't hurt -  if I were me, not wanting to do this again,  I'd get a perfectly flat surface and lay the p/g down with a pile of 8 or 9 good books on top and let it sit for at least a day to flatten it out.  Some plastics can be bent or shaped if heated. Plastic finger picks for example, in really hot water, can be tightened or loosened to fit your thumb.  I wouldn't recommend doing this with a p/g. But if I were desperate, and could actually see a curl, or corner lifting - a day or three  after doing the book press thing - I'd consider it.  Or warming it with a  hair dryer. And then flatten with books immediately on top.          If the 3m adhesive is given a chance to grip a flat p/g it should hold. But if the p/g is curled before you put it on,  you're "doing the same thing and expecting different results".   I don't think you need to clamp with the 3m, but I'd remove the strings and put a couple of books on the p/g for 24 hours - making sure you cover the corners and edges.  And, obviously, if the tape doesn't stick to the guitar's face - that is where the problem lies.  If it does't stick to the p/g  that's where the problem is. More naphtha!  G'Luck. 

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Hi ,just t a brief post surgery report , for those of you who may be intersted .

The Gibson J200 was entered into theatre at approx , 15.00 hrs ,operation completed approx 16.10 hrs  all has gone well , the patient is recovering well ,and not a trace of sticky left on the pickguard or soundboard thanks to a  gentle napther cleanse .No damage to the varnish at all , ( very small patch test carried out on the back of the neck to check prior to commencement )

3M 476 ahesive double sided sheet utilised during the procedure , and a  4mm perimeter excess allowed on the edge of the pikguard ahesive sheet (handy tip from a local luthier) , to ensure good edge ahesion ,and the pickguard was placed directly over the original footprint of the pick guard ,even pressure applied and the he adhesion seems  to have been a complete success .

Any excess perimeter  sticky was effectively removed with a gentle  rolling thumb pressure.

Meanwhile the patient is recuperating , with a leather book(Bible)  resting on the pickguard to ensure  gentle even pressure .

I will check on the condition  in the morning , but all seems well , and will keep you posted .

So many thanks for your advice and tips, .definitely not allowing near any silicon polishes in future.

Hoping I might have solved the problem.

Signing off from the banks of the River Thames near  Windsor ,UK.

Keep on strumming ..

Clive

 

 

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4 hours ago, CLIVE ALLUM said:

Hi ,just t a brief post surgery report . . .

I've never heard it put like that.

Congrats, and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

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5 minutes ago, 62burst said:

I've never heard it put like that.

Congrats, and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

 

4 hours ago, CLIVE ALLUM said:

 ...with a leather book(Bible)  resting on the pickguard to ensure  gentle even pressure .

Never've heard it put like that, either.

Edited by 62burst

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6 hours ago, 62burst said:

 

Never've heard it put like that, either.

 

Maybe it is just the New Testament. If it were the Old Testament, it would smite the guitar and turn it into firewood. Or a pillar of salt.

  • Haha 2

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I have a 2016 SJ200,  There is one small area, one of the pointed tips on the outside edge that turns up  a small bit.

I just keep pressing it down when I take it out of the case every day to play it.  So far no other spot on the pick guard is lifting.  

The battery,  not all that convenient, but I'd rather that than a whole cut in the guitar for the battery.   I routinely replace the 9volt every other string change. 

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 1:21 AM, dhanners623 said:

You may just have to glue it and clamp it overnight. It is a simple job for a professional.

Frank Ford describes how it is done: http://frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Pickguards/ReglueGuard/reglueguard.html

Maybe the bigger question is why in the heck are you sticking a perfectly good J200 in the case for three months at a time? Those things are built to be played. Regularly.

 

I though all guitars are meant to be played. Mine are in cases right now with hydration going on do to it being winter and the heat is on in the house and the humidity is lower. But when I get home, just like in the Warriors movie, they come out to play ay.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper

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21 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I though all guitars are meant to be played. Mine are in cases right now with hydration going on do to it being winter and the heat is on in the house and the humidity is lower. But when I get home, just like in the Warriors movie, they come out to play ay.

If you have more than a couple of guitars, and don't have the luxury of spending more than an hour a day playing, there's a good chance that some or most of your guitars will rarely get played. Most people are not going to rotate through guitars just to make sure they get equally played.

Sure, I have maybe  four or five guitars that haven't been out of the case more than a few times in the last couple of years, and only a couple that get played regularly. But that could change, and my own playing tastes could change, so I don't feel any pressure to unload rarely-played guitars. 

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1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I though all guitars are meant to be played. Mine are in cases right now with hydration going on do to it being winter and the heat is on in the house and the humidity is lower. But when I get home, just like in the Warriors movie, they come out to play ay.

Same here.   Bone dry.  My hygrometer has read between 20% and 16% RH for the last few months.  My 5 acoustics are cased,  electrics are too, (of which I have more of those than acoustics.) and a andolin and uke.  

I'm refilling / recharging  the humidifiers about every 3 or 4 days.   They're not totally expired, but close to it after that long.

I have no problem with this whole "keep in the case" thing,   I'd love to have a room/space where I had a steady consistent 45~50% RH,, but I don't   maybe some day..

 

Edited by kidblast

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I understand. At one point I owned 13 guitars and said to myself, there is no point in having guitars I don't play, so I started dumping them. But that is just me. I finally got down to a super-mega nice guitar, a 12er, one that I will take anywhere, and one at my other house that I leave there so I don't have to ever hump one there. One day in the near future when we move to the other house full time all my guitars will stay there. I would love to have every guitar on the planet I want, but I'm not Joe Bonamassa who has the funds to guy 1960 vintage Les Paul's ect.

Edited by Sgt. Pepper

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12 minutes ago, kidblast said:

Same here.   Bone dry.  My hygrometer has read between 20% and 16% RH for the last few months.  My 5 acoustics are cased,  electrics are too, (of which I have more of those than acoustics.) and a andolin and uke.  

I'm refilling / recharging  the humidifiers about every 3 or 4 days.   They're not totally expired, but close to it after that long.

I have no problem with this whole "keep in the case" thing,   I'd love to have a room/space where I had a steady consistent 45~50% RH,, but I don't   maybe some day..

 

I have the D'addario gel pack things in my cases. No mess. When they get hard get new ones. The one in my case at my other house has been in there for a few months (as we are not there but once a month or so) and it takes the hassle of changing water or worrying about overhydrating.

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7 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I have the D'addario gel pack things in my cases. No mess. When they get hard get new ones. The one in my case at my other house has been in there for a few months (as we are not there but once a month or so) and it takes the hassle of changing water or worrying about overhydrating.

yea,, I use those for my Taylor Nylon,  they usually get hard as a rock by now, but I think I figured out a way to avoid it.   I put a damp-it in the sound hole and damp sponge in a soap  travel case with holes drilled in it under the head stock. 

That's the cool thing about those packs,  they will absorb additional moisture as well as add when needed.  The hygrometers in the case  (one in the head-stock compartment and one  over the sound hole. ) are staying at 50%..   so it wouldn't seem I'm over doing it there.

I have the other four using Oasis Tubes.   I remove the gel when I'm done with them, and clean them out completely and store them in a dry place till it's time to use hem again.just add new gell with a refill kit.  I use distilled water in those. 

Sounds like a lot of work but I don't mind and I think it's worth it,  all the acoustics are wintering well.

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Hi ,

To those who might be interested

Just thought I would  give a progress   report on my self repair on my J200 , pleased to advise  24hrs later the pickguard still remains flat well adhered to  to the soundboard .

Hopefully it stays put , so again many thanks for all your advice and tips. Possibly , divine intervention might have played a part as well .

Just put a new set of 52-11,s  Elixir nanowebs on her and , and I fallen back in love with her .

My next problem  is the  fabric battery pack velcroed to the neck stump inside the guitar , Has anybody  yet found a better solution?.

I noted a valid comment about checking and changing a battery before a gig , but I, ve often forgotten , only human after all .

I often  wonder why, in this day and age an onboard  guitar preamp system has ,nt yet been produced that could be charged  by  a USB socket charger system similar to a mobile phone.

Contacted  Gibson Europe about it , but they didn,t pass any comment .

I am starting to think  to think I might need some  therapy

Keep on strumming ,

 

 

 

 

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